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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:24 AM
  #376
Whitesnake
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Like it or not people, in Montreal....with that kind of tournament.....and the pressure that will be on.....Drouin is the sole and only choice if he's there and if we pick tremendously high (or is low). And it will be an awesome pick.

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12-30-2012, 08:33 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
I like your descriptions.

For the Habs, I would rank them and where they should be picked:

1. MacKinnon(1-2)
2. Lindholm(4-6)
3. Barkov(3-5)
4. Drouin(1-4)
5. Jones(1-2)

-Mac is a scoring center/winger than plays a tough game and should be a consistent 30 goal scorer. Montreal hasnt had someone like him in a long time. He has speed, grit, hands and a good shot.

-Lindholm is complete. He can do anything. PP, PK, play gritty, make plays and has good hands. A perfect 2nd line center behind Galchenyuk. I dont see him as an elite 1st line player but he can play there and excel in every situation. Maybe 75 points per season in his prime.

-Barkov is the most NHL ready of all of them. He is big, tough and skilled. I see a bit of Lindros in him. He would be a perfect center for te Habs but I dont see the highest offemsive upside in him. Maybe a 60 point player, 70 in his prime if he plays with other skilled player. He will probably be the one with the longest career but wont get the attention the others will since he is not flashy.

-Drouin. Hardcore Habs fans better listen to me. Drouin is a small, skilled winger. He wont solve all our problems. He is small. He will probably be the most successfull offensively but will be more of the same. More small weak players. I would take Mac, Barkov and Lindholm over him.

-Jones is a defenseman. I dont want to waste a high pick on him.
Yeah I have to rep you for this. This falls right into my thinking as well. Elias Lindholm to me is an amazing player. I don't see him outside the top 5, but you never know. Stranger things has happenned. If he does drop, then I want Montreal to move up and draft him or Sean Monahan which I feel people are underrating him.

I still believe Nathan Mackinnon will go number one, but a strong showing by Jonathan Droin can change that. Alexander Barkov should go top 3 or 4, he is the most NHL ready player in the draft. Great size, great hands, so so speed, but that isn't a big thing with this guy. Its his vision and scoring touch that is impressive.

Seth Jones had a bad game againt Canada, the two goals Canada scored Jones was directly responsable for with turnovers behind the net, but I still see this guy getting drafted top 5.

The big question is whether one or two of these players drop in the draft because teams draft for positional need, which happenned last draft when alot of teams drafted defenseman early and let some good forwards drop.

As to the size question, Montreal NEEDS to upgrade the middle with size. With the new CBA allowing a one time buyout, we all know Scott Gomez will be bought out this year. That frees up 7 million in cap, which means PK Subban is going to be signed soon. But that still leaves us with Tomas Plekanac, David Desharnais and you can probably add Louis Leblanc who are undersized centerman. Upgrading here is a positional need for the Habs.

And the possiblity of the Habs drafting Seth Jones, my question is why? We have 3 bluechip defenseman who are 1 year away from joining the club, all of them are top 4 caliber defenseman. Do we really need another one? Nathan Beaulieu may need another year of seasoning, but Jared Tinnordi is ready to move up and I would add in Morgan Ellis. We don't need Seth Jones nor should we waste a first round pick when this draft is so deep on prime forwards.

If I had a choice on who to draft, for me its Elias Lindholm. He has size, loads of skill, is a playmaker and can play on the PK. What more can you ask for. If I can't draft this guy then I am praying Sean Monahan drops low enough that Montreal can make a play on him.

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12-30-2012, 09:02 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Forgedias View Post
Yeah I have to rep you for this. This falls right into my thinking as well. Elias Lindholm to me is an amazing player. I don't see him outside the top 5, but you never know. Stranger things has happenned. If he does drop, then I want Montreal to move up and draft him or Sean Monahan which I feel people are underrating him.

I still believe Nathan Mackinnon will go number one, but a strong showing by Jonathan Droin can change that. Alexander Barkov should go top 3 or 4, he is the most NHL ready player in the draft. Great size, great hands, so so speed, but that isn't a big thing with this guy. Its his vision and scoring touch that is impressive.

Seth Jones had a bad game againt Canada, the two goals Canada scored Jones was directly responsable for with turnovers behind the net, but I still see this guy getting drafted top 5.

The big question is whether one or two of these players drop in the draft because teams draft for positional need, which happenned last draft when alot of teams drafted defenseman early and let some good forwards drop.

As to the size question, Montreal NEEDS to upgrade the middle with size. With the new CBA allowing a one time buyout, we all know Scott Gomez will be bought out this year. That frees up 7 million in cap, which means PK Subban is going to be signed soon. But that still leaves us with Tomas Plekanac, David Desharnais and you can probably add Louis Leblanc who are undersized centerman. Upgrading here is a positional need for the Habs.

And the possiblity of the Habs drafting Seth Jones, my question is why? We have 3 bluechip defenseman who are 1 year away from joining the club, all of them are top 4 caliber defenseman. Do we really need another one? Nathan Beaulieu may need another year of seasoning, but Jared Tinnordi is ready to move up and I would add in Morgan Ellis. We don't need Seth Jones nor should we waste a first round pick when this draft is so deep on prime forwards.

If I had a choice on who to draft, for me its Elias Lindholm. He has size, loads of skill, is a playmaker and can play on the PK. What more can you ask for. If I can't draft this guy then I am praying Sean Monahan drops low enough that Montreal can make a play on him.
First, as small Drouin is and while he doesn't solve ALL of our problems is not a way to look at this. Nobody will solve all of our problems. You fix one place, you miss on another one. And I am ALL for getting bigger at center. So the choices are much tougher for me. And being the closest of becoming NHL ready is also not a way I look at this. As far as the d-man....well sorry but everybody you mentioned does not come close to our guys potential. You draft Jones 'cause he ends up AUTOMATICALLY you best d-man prospect and maybe your 2nd best prospect overall. You might then have some room to trade some of your D prospects for forwards like a Goligoski for Neal type of trade. And for every big centerman we have to pick...who are our future talented wingers? We might think, and I do, that Kristo will be one. And then you have Collberg, Bozon, Gallagher, Leblanc, Hudon....but elite players? Not a lot as well. And don't watch but in our present team....we have only 1 future winger in Pacioretty. The 2013 draft is CRUCIAL for the future of this team.

I will tell you that in this year's draft, with the number of 2nd round picks we have, you might have a chance to get that big centerman or that really great skilled winger, or that very good underrated d-man like Shea Weber was in his draft year. So depending where we finish, this draft is so 2003 like that take one star but just take one....don't AKost it....And you will be able to add a few more in the 2nd round. Let's not trade those picks though for 1 year of Dominic Moore like...Not any year, but surely not THIS year.

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12-30-2012, 09:13 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
First, as small Drouin is and while he doesn't solve ALL of our problems is not a way to look at this. Nobody will solve all of our problems. You fix one place, you miss on another one. And I am ALL for getting bigger at center. So the choices are much tougher for me. And being the closest of becoming NHL ready is also not a way I look at this. As far as the d-man....well sorry but everybody you mentioned does not come close to our guys potential. You draft Jones 'cause he ends up AUTOMATICALLY you best d-man prospect and maybe your 2nd best prospect overall. You might then have some room to trade some of your D prospects for forwards like a Goligoski for Neal type of trade. And for every big centerman we have to pick...who are our future talented wingers? We might think, and I do, that Kristo will be one. And then you have Collberg, Bozon, Gallagher, Leblanc, Hudon....but elite players? Not a lot as well. And don't watch but in our present team....we have only 1 future winger in Pacioretty. The 2013 draft is CRUCIAL for the future of this team.

I will tell you that in this year's draft, with the number of 2nd round picks we have, you might have a chance to get that big centerman or that really great skilled winger, or that very good underrated d-man like Shea Weber was in his draft year. So depending where we finish, this draft is so 2003 like that take one star but just take one....don't AKost it....And you will be able to add a few more in the 2nd round. Let's not trade those picks though for 1 year of Dominic Moore like...Not any year, but surely not THIS year.
Drafting Seth Jones when goal scoring is such an issue for the club is something I wouldn't do. Yes Jones is a great prospect, but when you have a draft this deep with quality forwards that could potentially be franchise impacting players. You need to focus on them and try drafting them.

People have been going so far to say that Jones could have the upside of a Pronger. That is alot of put on his plate, for me I don't see his upside as high as that, but he is a very good prospect, but would I want to see a first round pick used on him when you could draft Elias Lindholm? No I wouldn't do it.

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12-30-2012, 09:19 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Forgedias View Post
Drafting Seth Jones when goal scoring is such an issue for the club is something I wouldn't do. Yes Jones is a great prospect, but when you have a draft this deep with quality forwards that could potentially be franchise impacting players. You need to focus on them and try drafting them.

People have been going so far to say that Jones could have the upside of a Pronger. That is alot of put on his plate, for me I don't see his upside as high as that, but he is a very good prospect, but would I want to see a first round pick used on him when you could draft Elias Lindholm? No I wouldn't do it.
I understand, yet, this depth on D that we have is less than certain. It does seem strong, but then as far as potential is concerned...you are solely talking about Beaulieu. While Tinordi might end up a safe #4-#5 on our team. But when you talk Jones...you talk #1-#2 on every situation possible. We also lack this. We have 1 in Subban.

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12-30-2012, 09:27 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I understand, yet, this depth on D that we have is less than certain. It does seem strong, but then as far as potential is concerned...you are solely talking about Beaulieu. While Tinordi might end up a safe #4-#5 on our team. But when you talk Jones...you talk #1-#2 on every situation possible. We also lack this. We have 1 in Subban.
I'd much rather a solid veteran. If this AHL season (and history, for that matter) has taught us anything, it's that no matter how talented, you don't win hockey games with an inexperienced defense. Sign a good top 4 veteran defenseman (there's always some available in FA, though you might have to overpay a little) to play with Markov/Subban and slowly integrate Tinordi/Beaulieu into the lineup.

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12-30-2012, 09:28 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I will tell you that in this year's draft, with the number of 2nd round picks we have, you might have a chance to get that big centerman or that really great skilled winger, or that very good underrated d-man like Shea Weber was in his draft year. So depending where we finish, this draft is so 2003 like that take one star but just take one....don't AKost it....And you will be able to add a few more in the 2nd round. Let's not trade those picks though for 1 year of Dominic Moore like...Not any year, but surely not THIS year.
To continue on what you posted, skilled big playmaking centerman do not come around that often and to have 4 of them in one year is a windfall. We are talking in a draft usually having maybe 1 and if your lucky 2 such centerman. We have 4 this 2013. There is no way that Nathan MacKinnon, Alexander Barkov, Elias Lindholm or Sean Monahan drops to the second round. A winger can potentially drop to the second round like Sebastian Collberg did last year, but big playmaking centerman are prized because they make such a big impact to a club.

The only centerman that I think can drop to the middle of the first round is Sean Monahan because he plays on a abysmally bad club, who is at the bottom of the league in the standings. Yet he has the most points on his team and is a -3 plus/minus when the average for his club is -15. These 4 guys will make a big impact to any club that drafts them, why isn't it so inconceivable to have Montreal try make a play for them? Why is BPA the best route? If you trade up and give up a 3rd or 4th rounder to move up to get one of these guys, then I think its very much worth it.

But as was stated already in this thread, people do not want to give up picks to move up and would rather follow the best pick available policy which worked last year in 2012. So whatever route Marc Bergevin takes, I still think we will do well in 2013 for the draft. I just would like to see Montreal make a play for one of these centerman.

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12-30-2012, 10:47 AM
  #383
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So far in the tournament, Drouin and Lindholm seem to have really confirmed their spots in the top 5. They are legit studs.

Jones has been disappointing the last 2 games, that 1st period today was simply atrocious. Considering he's 18, I've been underwhelmed.

MacKinnon just doesn't look like he's comfortable. Granted, he's barely playing.

Barkov has 1 point in 3 games playing mostly with Teravainen. I know there's a Barkov fan club here, but that production is disappointing.

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12-30-2012, 10:50 AM
  #384
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To continue on what you posted, skilled big playmaking centerman do not come around that often and to have 4 of them in one year is a windfall. We are talking in a draft usually having maybe 1 and if your lucky 2 such centerman. We have 4 this 2013. There is no way that Nathan MacKinnon, Alexander Barkov, Elias Lindholm or Sean Monahan drops to the second round. A winger can potentially drop to the second round like Sebastian Collberg did last year, but big playmaking centerman are prized because they make such a big impact to a club.

The only centerman that I think can drop to the middle of the first round is Sean Monahan because he plays on a abysmally bad club, who is at the bottom of the league in the standings. Yet he has the most points on his team and is a -3 plus/minus when the average for his club is -15. These 4 guys will make a big impact to any club that drafts them, why isn't it so inconceivable to have Montreal try make a play for them? Why is BPA the best route? If you trade up and give up a 3rd or 4th rounder to move up to get one of these guys, then I think its very much worth it.

But as was stated already in this thread, people do not want to give up picks to move up and would rather follow the best pick available policy which worked last year in 2012. So whatever route Marc Bergevin takes, I still think we will do well in 2013 for the draft. I just would like to see Montreal make a play for one of these centerman.
MacKinnon is neither big or a playmaking center.

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12-30-2012, 10:51 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
So far in the tournament, Drouin and Lindholm seem to have really confirmed their spots in the top 5. They are legit studs.

Jones has been disappointing the last 2 games, that 1st period today was simply atrocious. Considering he's 18, I've been underwhelmed.

MacKinnon just doesn't look like he's comfortable. Granted, he's barely playing.

Barkov has 1 point in 3 games playing mostly with Teravainen. I know there's a Barkov fan club here, but that production is disappointing.
You can teach a kid defensive coverage. You can't teach 6'4" with great mobility and offensive instincts.

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12-30-2012, 10:54 AM
  #386
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You can teach a kid defensive coverage. You can't teach 6'4" with great mobility and offensive instincts.
I just find his decision making has been poor and slow at times.

With that said, this is big ice hockey. His game translates better to a smaller rink, IMO.

I'd still take Jones top 2, don't get me wrong.

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12-30-2012, 11:12 AM
  #387
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I made a list of players we would have drafted if we didnt trade the 2009-2010-2011 2nd round draft picks we could have drafted Ouellet,Sproul, Gibson...

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12-30-2012, 11:13 AM
  #388
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Christopher Gibson, not John Gibson (the USA goalie). He went 39th.

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12-30-2012, 11:21 AM
  #389
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Christopher Gibson, not John Gibson (the USA goalie). He went 39th.
I always mix them up...

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12-30-2012, 11:24 AM
  #390
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A few choices for our 3rd round pick;Keegan Kanzig,Myles Bell,Mitchell Wheaton,Jordan Subban,Eric Roy and Dillon Heatherington.Timmins needs to keep the flow of good to great Dmen going.

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12-30-2012, 11:46 AM
  #391
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Barkov has 1 point in 3 games playing mostly with Teravainen. I know there's a Barkov fan club here, but that production is disappointing.
To be fair, Finland has mainly played like ass and Barkov has been by far the most selfless player out there. Barkov has been good but outplayed by Tervainen though. At least he's not Armia.

He's hurting his stock though, because as good as he is there's questions over if he can take over a game. He's selfless and fundamental almost to a fault right now. Lindholm and Drouin have seen their stocks rise vs Barkov. He's been better than Jones and Mackinnon, but Jones is on a bad team and Mackinnon is hardly being used.

Ristolainen has impressed me for what it's worth.

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12-30-2012, 02:22 PM
  #392
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When teams are continually in danger of losing their franchises,besides being out of the playoffs their fans need some form of promise for the future.The ineptitude of the picks chosen or of their development system is a whole other matter each team has to overcome.Salary Caps favor the wealthy teams,parity has been transparent due to the change of awarding points,which gives the illusion that most teams are on a par with each other.
You're going to have to explain that one because it makes no sense to me. The cap is there to prevent wealthy teams from having an unfair advantage.

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12-31-2012, 07:00 AM
  #393
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You're going to have to explain that one because it makes no sense to me. The cap is there to prevent wealthy teams from having an unfair advantage.
Salary Caps have their minimum and the poor teams spend to the minimum,is that difficult.

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12-31-2012, 09:00 AM
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Salary Caps have their minimum and the poor teams spend to the minimum,is that difficult.
It's the opposite. If it wasn't for the floor, poor teams would spend even less than they have to, since the floor forces them to spend at least that amount. If it wasn't for the cap and floor, the difference in spending between the rich and poor teams would be lot more important. I guess that sarcasm smiley means you're just pulling my leg by faking ignorance, right?

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12-31-2012, 09:07 AM
  #395
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Getting to play an abbreviated season should be beneficial to the Habs future,a Top Five Draft pick being their likely finish to the season.Given the lottery being weighted in favor of order of finish and only the non-playoff teams involved,the Habs could get fortunate and draft 1st,2nd or 3rd again.
Hmm, well, I guess it depends on how good/bad we think the Habs would be, but if the team is indeed a borderline non-playoff team, a new open draft lottery for non-playoff teams would of course help us. But flip side, if we were going to be really bad again like last season, it would suck to say finish bottom-5, then lose out on the draft lottery and end up picking 13th or something. I guess we'll see what the new weightings and draft lottery proposal are soon. But we probably won't have a clue how good/bad the Habs will be for quite a while after that. Let's just make the playoffs and make it a moot point, I say!

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12-31-2012, 09:57 AM
  #396
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Like it or not people, in Montreal....with that kind of tournament.....and the pressure that will be on.....Drouin is the sole and only choice if he's there and if we pick tremendously high (or is low). And it will be an awesome pick.
Drouin would be great on a line with Galchenyuk and if the Habs can get a 10-15 pick draft Nicushkin to play RW.That would be a really tough line to keep in check from what I've seen of the three of their playing.If not grab Anthony Mantha or William Carrier.

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12-31-2012, 10:43 AM
  #397
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Ok now I want Drouin too. How do we do that?

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12-31-2012, 10:45 AM
  #398
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MacKinnon's skating is insane. It doesn't look like any of these top 19 year olds can match his top gear. He might need some more experience for his head to catch up with his legs at this level though.

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12-31-2012, 12:34 PM
  #399
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I'm referring to teams that drafted 1st overall a couple of times. Chicago never drafted 1st overall (lottery win - finished 5th overall) and Toews and Barker were 3rd overall.

Washington took Alzner 5th overall and Backstrom 6th.

Edmonton drafted 1st overall 3 times - moved up 1 spot.

Pittsburgh drafted 1st overall twice, 2nd and 3rd overall.

I think there is a difference between trying to win and not be a bottom celler dweller and just rotting at the bottom of the pile.
What about Patrick Kane?

What about Ovechkin?

A top5 pick is a pretty darn good pick my friend. Toews was arguably the best player from his crop and he was drafted 3rd overall. Tanking is not only 1st overall bud.... If we go by your thinking, Columbus wouldn't have been tanking the last few years

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My cousin trains there too. He mentionned seeing Letang, Drouin and someone from the Flyers. Giroux, Briere?

Anyway, it is very close between these guys. Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm all bring something different to the table. I just see Drouin as something Montreal doesnt need. Dont get me wong, I wouldnt be upset if Montreal selected him but I just think Barkov or Lindholm would be better for Montreal.

Collberg, Kristo and Gallagher are already all under 6" and skilled. Maybe not as skilled but still.
Collberg ,Drouin and Kristo are pretty much 6' that inch missing doesn't change a thing, it's all about the body strenght at that point....


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I've watched every Sweden game since the pre-tournament games and Lindholm has been, by far, their best player. He has everything you look for in a #1 C.

I understand the staying power of Mackinnon/Jones, but it would be hard for me to see him being ranked behind Monahan or Barkov. He can essentially do everything that these two can and has more offensive upside IMO as well as a clearly superior skating ability.

He and Galchenyuk would compliment each other very well, from what I've seen.
To me it goes like this.

Top 1 to 3: Drouin, Mackinnon, Jones

2nd tier: Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, Ristolainen

3rd tier: Shinkaruk, Hagg, Erne, Duclair

Then later in the first round it's all about Mantha and Gauthier. But I haven't watched much WHL/OHL yet.

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Originally Posted by Forgedias View Post
To continue on what you posted, skilled big playmaking centerman do not come around that often and to have 4 of them in one year is a windfall. We are talking in a draft usually having maybe 1 and if your lucky 2 such centerman. We have 4 this 2013. There is no way that Nathan MacKinnon, Alexander Barkov, Elias Lindholm or Sean Monahan drops to the second round. A winger can potentially drop to the second round like Sebastian Collberg did last year, but big playmaking centerman are prized because they make such a big impact to a club.

The only centerman that I think can drop to the middle of the first round is Sean Monahan because he plays on a abysmally bad club, who is at the bottom of the league in the standings. Yet he has the most points on his team and is a -3 plus/minus when the average for his club is -15. These 4 guys will make a big impact to any club that drafts them, why isn't it so inconceivable to have Montreal try make a play for them? Why is BPA the best route? If you trade up and give up a 3rd or 4th rounder to move up to get one of these guys, then I think its very much worth it.

But as was stated already in this thread, people do not want to give up picks to move up and would rather follow the best pick available policy which worked last year in 2012. So whatever route Marc Bergevin takes, I still think we will do well in 2013 for the draft. I just would like to see Montreal make a play for one of these centerman.

How is Mackinnon big yet Drouin small when both are the same height?


Last edited by QuebecPride: 12-31-2012 at 12:46 PM.
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12-31-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspirine View Post
Ok now I want Drouin too. How do we do that?
1) No-season: We luck out on some supposed draw.
2) Season : Tank

Has MacKinnon stock fallen since the start of the WJC?

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