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Old
12-29-2012, 10:01 PM
  #476
tijuana knuckles
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I am on the fence with Tomlin. Obviously we have had success under him overall and that is the ultimate bottom line. But he has made some real headscratching moves this year, and I am not talking monday morning QBing. Howmany times did they go for it on 4th down within the five yard line and fail this year. Or worse on their own side of the field. Or try that 56 yd. field goal with two minutes left last game? He is the riverboat gambler that always loses.
I would like give Tomlin the benefit of the doubt, but really.... He is ALWAYS the second smartest Head Coach on the field at every Steeler Game. He makes boneheaded decisions and NEVER makes a coaching decision that is what you would call a strategic move from a coaches point of view. NEVER a decision that outsmarts the other coach. NEVER

He was just in the right place at the right time. He is excellent at "coachspeak". He great at accepting responsibility for the mistakes of his team. But he himself is not held accountable publicly

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12-30-2012, 03:13 AM
  #477
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I don't have a problem with Tomlin. He had a bad year this year but he's still a good young coach that will get better over time. I'd also defer to players in the league that are much smarter than me about football and they often vote Tomlin as one of the most underrated coaches in the league and by far the coach most players want to play for.

Cowher wasn't considered a genius by any stretch either. People often questioned his football intelligence and seemed to think his strength was his intensity and motivating players. He also had his bonehead draft moves like his man crush that led to the drafting of Alonzo Jackson and a lot of people close to the team also say he wanted to draft Shawn Andrews over Ben Roethlisberger.

I've actually been happy with the Steelers drafting under Tomlin other than 2008.

2007
1. Lawrence Timmons (Very good MLB)
2. LaMarr Woodley (Very good OLB)
3. Matt Spaeth (Career backup TE)
4. Daniel Sepulveda (Was a serviceable punter before injuries)
5. Ryan McBean (journeyman)
6. Cameron Stephenson (bust)
7. William Gay (Decent backup CB)
7. Dallas Baker (bust)

2008
1. Rashard Mendenhall (Ultra talented but has never put it all together imo. Good player though)
2. Limas Sweed (lol. Has to be the biggest bust of Tomlin's career)
3. Bruce Davis (Bust)
4. Tony Hills (Journeyman backup)
5. Dennis Dixon (Fringe journeyman backup QB)
6. Mike Humpal (bust)
6. Ryan Mundy (career backup safety)

2009
1. Evander Hood (I know he's not been an impact guy but he's still serviceable and we were picking last since we won the SB)
3. Kraig Urbik (I actually think Urbik has become exactly what they thought he would be and that's a solid starting NFL lineman. He just got off to a slow start and they liked an undrafted kid Ramon Foster better and that's why Urbik is gone.)
3. Mike Wallace (Very good WR)
3. Keenan Lewis (Good starting CB)
5. Joe Burnett (bust)
5. Frank Summers (bust)
6. Ra'Shon Harris (bust)
7. A.Q. Shipley (He is in the NFL playing for the Colts but he's a career backup at best)
7. David Johnson (fringe NFL TE/FB)

2010
1. Maurkice Pouncey (Pro Bowl Center)
2. Jason Worilds (I think he's a serviceable backup)
3. Emmanuel Sanders (I think he's a starting caliber WR)
4. Thaddeus Gibson (journeyman)
5. Chris Scott (bust)
5. Crezdon Butler (journeyman)
5. Stevenson Sylvester (Good special teamer and backup LB)
6. Jonathan Dwyer (Solid NFL RB)
6. Antonio Brown (Pro Bowl WR/return guy)
7. Doug Worthington (journeyman)

2011
1. Cameron Heyward (I still think this kid will be a very good player. He just won't get the chance until Keisel is gone.)
2. Marcus Gilbert (Serviceable lineman)
3. Curtis Brown (Good special teamer and still has some CB potential)
4. Cortez Allen (Looks like a starting caliber CB to me)
5. Chris Carter (Decent special teamer and backup LB but hurt this year)
7. Baron Batch (Serviceable RB)

2012
1. David DeCastro (Hard not to like this pick even with the injury and mostly lost rookie year)
2. Mike Adams (He looked good at times. I think he'll be the LT sooner than later.)
3. Sean Spence (Love the player and think he'll bounce back from his injury but don't know where he fits in our D)
4. Alameda Ta'amu (Too early)
5. Chris Rainey (very good returner and change of pace back)
7. Toney Clemons (On the Jags roster)
7. David Paulson (Looks like a career backup TE)
7. Terrence Frederick (On the Giants roster)
7. Kelvin Beachum (Looks like a career backup swingman G/T type)

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Old
12-30-2012, 03:20 AM
  #478
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Steelers also claimed NT Hebron Fangupo off waivers from Seattle. He went undrafted last spring but there were some Steeler fans that liked him and wanted to draft him back then so I thought I'd mention it.

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:52 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I don't have a problem with Tomlin. He had a bad year this year but he's still a good young coach that will get better over time. I'd also defer to players in the league that are much smarter than me about football and they often vote Tomlin as one of the most underrated coaches in the league and by far the coach most players want to play for.

Cowher wasn't considered a genius by any stretch either. People often questioned his football intelligence and seemed to think his strength was his intensity and motivating players. He also had his bonehead draft moves like his man crush that led to the drafting of Alonzo Jackson and a lot of people close to the team also say he wanted to draft Shawn Andrews over Ben Roethlisberger.

I've actually been happy with the Steelers drafting under Tomlin other than 2008.

2007
1. Lawrence Timmons (Very good MLB)
2. LaMarr Woodley (Very good OLB)
3. Matt Spaeth (Career backup TE)
4. Daniel Sepulveda (Was a serviceable punter before injuries)
5. Ryan McBean (journeyman)
6. Cameron Stephenson (bust)
7. William Gay (Decent backup CB)
7. Dallas Baker (bust)

2008
1. Rashard Mendenhall (Ultra talented but has never put it all together imo. Good player though)
2. Limas Sweed (lol. Has to be the biggest bust of Tomlin's career)
3. Bruce Davis (Bust)
4. Tony Hills (Journeyman backup)
5. Dennis Dixon (Fringe journeyman backup QB)
6. Mike Humpal (bust)
6. Ryan Mundy (career backup safety)

2009
1. Evander Hood (I know he's not been an impact guy but he's still serviceable and we were picking last since we won the SB)
3. Kraig Urbik (I actually think Urbik has become exactly what they thought he would be and that's a solid starting NFL lineman. He just got off to a slow start and they liked an undrafted kid Ramon Foster better and that's why Urbik is gone.)
3. Mike Wallace (Very good WR)
3. Keenan Lewis (Good starting CB)
5. Joe Burnett (bust)
5. Frank Summers (bust)
6. Ra'Shon Harris (bust)
7. A.Q. Shipley (He is in the NFL playing for the Colts but he's a career backup at best)
7. David Johnson (fringe NFL TE/FB)

2010
1. Maurkice Pouncey (Pro Bowl Center)
2. Jason Worilds (I think he's a serviceable backup)
3. Emmanuel Sanders (I think he's a starting caliber WR)
4. Thaddeus Gibson (journeyman)
5. Chris Scott (bust)
5. Crezdon Butler (journeyman)
5. Stevenson Sylvester (Good special teamer and backup LB)
6. Jonathan Dwyer (Solid NFL RB)
6. Antonio Brown (Pro Bowl WR/return guy)
7. Doug Worthington (journeyman)

2011
1. Cameron Heyward (I still think this kid will be a very good player. He just won't get the chance until Keisel is gone.)
2. Marcus Gilbert (Serviceable lineman)
3. Curtis Brown (Good special teamer and still has some CB potential)
4. Cortez Allen (Looks like a starting caliber CB to me)
5. Chris Carter (Decent special teamer and backup LB but hurt this year)
7. Baron Batch (Serviceable RB)

2012
1. David DeCastro (Hard not to like this pick even with the injury and mostly lost rookie year)
2. Mike Adams (He looked good at times. I think he'll be the LT sooner than later.)
3. Sean Spence (Love the player and think he'll bounce back from his injury but don't know where he fits in our D)
4. Alameda Ta'amu (Too early)
5. Chris Rainey (very good returner and change of pace back)
7. Toney Clemons (On the Jags roster)
7. David Paulson (Looks like a career backup TE)
7. Terrence Frederick (On the Giants roster)
7. Kelvin Beachum (Looks like a career backup swingman G/T type)
Pretty fair assessment. I think Mendenhall was slowed down mostly by injury and also battled through a poor offensive line the last couple seasons. He did finish 7th in rushing in 2010 (100 more yards that season would have put him at 3rd).

I think Ziggy Hood could be looking at bust territory. I'm very disappointed in how he has looked.

Paulson may be a backup for a few seasons, but he may end up being a starter eventually. The Steelers are pretty high on him and honestly I can see why. Hopefully he just tries to copy everything Heath Miller does until then.

I'm with you on Spence as well. What a terrible way to start a career. Really hope he can fully recover and be an impact player. Any update on his recovery?

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:55 AM
  #480
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Can't really call ziggy a bust when he's a starter. It's more like a disappointment with his play compared to draft position.

He's still young, though, so you never know.


Last edited by OnMyOwn: 12-30-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 09:31 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
Can't really call soggy a bust when he's a starter. It's more like a disappointment with his play compared to draft position.

He's still young, though, so you never know.
Yeah, Ziggy is not a bust. A bust is someone like Sweed that can't play in the league. A serviceable player isn't a bust especially considering the draft pick (last in the first round). I'd be more down on him if he were a higher 1st round pick.

I'm also careful of criticizing 3-4 lineman or trusting other fans evaluations of 3-4 lineman because those lineman in the Steelers scheme are rarely going to stand out even if they are playing well. Aaron Smith was a great player for a long time and he did his job great almost ever week but he was hardly noticeable in most games. It's not like I can think of loads of great plays Aaron Smith made but he was a great player by almost all accounts especially those that know the game like coaches and opposing players etc. Ziggy isn't Aaron Smith but he's a starter and the coaches seem happy with him so that's good enough for me.

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:32 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
Can't really call soggy a bust when he's a starter. It's more like a disappointment with his play compared to draft position.

He's still young, though, so you never know.
I agree, not a bust yet, but certainly trending in that direction. In HF terms, I'd rate him a 7.0 D-.

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:33 AM
  #483
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Yeah, I don't think Hood is a bust. I think he may be miscast, but that was a serious concern of mine when we drafted him, as everyone knew that the guy needed to get a lot strong, had a fairly weak lower body, and had a rough time holding up against the run. He was a pass rushing 4-3 tackle.

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12-30-2012, 09:36 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
Regarding Kiper, in one ear and out the other. Dude just has an agenda. If you really want a great analysts look no further than Mike Mayock and the guy over at walterfootball.com
I love Mayock's passion for the game, but I think Mayock has a very hard time separating himself from the prospects. Every single year he falls in love with a select few, and then rates them a lot higher than they really are. I can read 19 draft reports that say the same thing, and Mayock will always have one that's just completely different.

He did call Jay Cutler though. He touted the guy as the best QB in the class, and he is...which really isn't saying much. Odd that neither Leinart, Young, nor Cutler are on there respective teams anymore. Cutler probably would be if Denver didn't hire that **** in McDaniels.

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12-30-2012, 09:36 AM
  #485
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To clarify the term "bust", to me someone who was drafted in the first round and doesn't start after a couple seasons is a bust. That being said, I don't think Hood will be a starter for much longer, but that's my opinion.

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:48 AM
  #486
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It is funny to look back and remember Kiper saying Ricardo Colclough will have a big impact in the NFL or McShay saying Limas Sweed will be the best WR in his draft class. Steelers got praised to no end for their worst draft in years (2008) and crushed for their 2009 draft that was actually pretty solid.

I do love listening to Mayock though especially during broadcasts. He's probably my favorite right now.

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Old
12-30-2012, 10:37 AM
  #487
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Yeah, I don't think Hood is a bust. I think he may be miscast, but that was a serious concern of mine when we drafted him, as everyone knew that the guy needed to get a lot strong, had a fairly weak lower body, and had a rough time holding up against the run. He was a pass rushing 4-3 tackle.
He's terrible against the run. There's a reason why whoever we play runs it to our left side 75% of the game, him. The Chiefs game is a perfect example of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I love Mayock's passion for the game, but I think Mayock has a very hard time separating himself from the prospects. Every single year he falls in love with a select few, and then rates them a lot higher than they really are. I can read 19 draft reports that say the same thing, and Mayock will always have one that's just completely different.

He did call Jay Cutler though. He touted the guy as the best QB in the class, and he is...which really isn't saying much. Odd that neither Leinart, Young, nor Cutler are on there respective teams anymore. Cutler probably would be if Denver didn't hire that **** in McDaniels.
He does fall in love with certain guys be he's so much better than Kiper.

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12-30-2012, 10:43 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
He's terrible against the run. There's a reason why whoever we play runs it to our left side 75% of the game, him. The Chiefs game is a perfect example of that.



He does fall in love with certain guys be he's so much better than Kiper.
I don't think Kiper is great at what he does. I think he's good at pegging guys to rounds, but as far as evaluation of talent...I don't think he's as good as he thinks he is.

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12-30-2012, 10:47 AM
  #489
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I don't think Kiper is great at what he does. I think he's good at pegging guys to rounds, but as far as evaluation of talent...I don't think he's as good as he thinks he is.
I honestly think he just loves to hear himself talk.

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12-30-2012, 10:50 AM
  #490
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I honestly think he just loves to hear himself talk.
Yeah, in old days, Kiper was good but not anymore.

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12-30-2012, 10:51 AM
  #491
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Some of the best "experts" aren't even on TV, etc. Walterfootball.com is the best mock I've seen throughout the season.

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12-30-2012, 11:58 AM
  #492
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I've only casually followed walterfootball, but I may do it more. You're not the first person to bring up that site.

I've always read their mock drafts though.

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12-30-2012, 12:14 PM
  #493
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Mike Mularkey rumored to be out in Jacksonville. I'd like to have him as OC.

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12-30-2012, 12:59 PM
  #494
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So the Browns are going to fire their head coach.

That organization is clueless.

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12-30-2012, 01:06 PM
  #495
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That's one way to stop Ben from throwing picks, start the game with 3 straight runs and a punt.

I hate this part of the Steeler offense, run early and ineffectively and then wait until there is a much smaller margin of error and then start passing more.

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12-30-2012, 01:20 PM
  #496
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That Browns qb is looking pretty good so far. Hard to believe it's his first snaps.

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12-30-2012, 01:22 PM
  #497
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This is bad.

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12-30-2012, 01:23 PM
  #498
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Troy redeems the D's bad play.

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12-30-2012, 01:25 PM
  #499
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We could have used that in games that mattered troy.

I'm torn between wanting to see them end on a win and getting a better draft pick.

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12-30-2012, 01:25 PM
  #500
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Thank god for Troy.

We're still playing 15 yards off the ball. Even a guy in his first start can hit some wide open receivers with our D playing that far off.

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