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D-man needed for Nielsen and.......

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:44 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Something around Andrej Sekera maybe? I'd hate giving him up, but Buffalo could use a solid defensive C, and a top 10 pick in this draft would be great. Sekera is fairly young, a good shutdown d-man (and he can play either side -- left or right), and he's on a very cheap contract that only pays 1.75M in its last 2 years.

Probably would need to be a + from Buffalo's side, but it seems like an OK basis for a deal?
Snow's shopped each of his top 10 picks since the 2008 draft, except for the 2009 pick(Tavares).

He keeps demanding a young player, with upside similar to the players expected to be on the board at his pick.

Would Snow consider 2 and 1/2 yrs of Sekera+ to be worth Nielsen +a likely top 10 pick?

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12-29-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
Scaling down the trade a bit to something like this (Ballard for Nielsen) is pretty close and makes sense from a hockey standpoint, not necessarily from a salary standpoint, and unfortunately, it's the salary standpoint which holds the most weight.... Nielsen has a team friendly deal in place..... Ballard is earning a lot more than he is producing... But Ballard would certainly be an upgrade from Jurcina, Staois, Reese for the next new years...
If teams are able to trade salary (not talking about cap space, just cash) in the new CBA, then problem solved.

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12-29-2012, 01:07 PM
  #28
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If it's a top-6 pick, I'd move Vlasic+ a little.

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12-29-2012, 01:57 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
MacDonald has played quality top pairing minutes for 2 yrs now.
MacDonald is a nice player, but he's not a top 4 on a good team.

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12-29-2012, 02:00 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
Hey all,

I was just going over next year's lineup for the New York Islanders and we seem to have a lot of depth at the center position once Ryan Strome, Casey Cizikas and Brock Nelson make the leap. Although it is very unlikely that he gets moved, it looks like the Isles have the flexibility to move Frans Nielsen. Maybe even package our first round pick along with Nielsen if we could get our hands on an NHL defenseman (not another D prospect, an actual NHL ready player).

I'd be willing to trade our first this year if we are not able to land Seth Jones. So let's say we have the 7th overall pick and package it with Frans Nielsen and maybe even a mid-level prospect if need be. What does it land us????

Isles trade:

Frans Nielsen
1st round pick (7th overall)
mid-level prospect

For:
??????


Anyone have a D-man for me?????
I would like to see us to try to do something with NJ . What does the Devils what for Salvador and either Greene or Tallinder?


to Isles
Salvador
Greene or Tallinder


to Devils
Nielsen
1st round pick (2013)
???

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12-29-2012, 02:06 PM
  #31
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Cody Franson + Jesse Blacker for Frans Nielsen + Anders Lee.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:14 PM
  #32
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Cody Franson + Jesse Blacker for Frans Nielsen + Anders Lee.
mother of god

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12-29-2012, 02:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
MacDonald is a nice player, but he's not a top 4 on a good team.
Looking at the reasons for the isles pathetic win/loss records the past 2 seasons, I can be pissed and disappointed with the play of blueliners Jurcina, Eaton, Staio and Mottou. Even Streit post-surgery.

But, I can't say I'm unhappy with the play of Hamonic or MacDonald. I'm more confident that Hamonic and MacDonald will play solidly in their own end, then I am about Vis+ Streit when the lockout ends.

And the above complaint that MacDonald's not physical enough to be a crease clearer, is a head scratcher. He's never played that role, doesn't have the size for that role.

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12-29-2012, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssk View Post
I would like to see us to try to do something with NJ . What does the Devils what for Salvador and either Greene or Tallinder?


to Isles
Salvador
Greene or Tallinder


to Devils
Nielsen
1st round pick (2013)
???

I love the ???? at the end, as if the isles would add to that homer proposal.

Go and read some of the NYI pre-draft articles from the last several drafts. Read Snow's trade demand: a young player, who's upside is on the level of the players Snow has available on the board.

Also, read the Dec. 18, 2012 nhl.com Snow interview. Snow repeats that he's sticking with his youth movement, to expect more youngsters on the roster.

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12-29-2012, 05:49 PM
  #35
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In before blinkman mentions Keith Yandle.

It'll be hard to find anyone available for a package that's comparable to petrocelli's proposed deal. Jordan Staal went for something comparable value-wise, but that was a special case because the Pens needed to unload him.
LOL. I only say it so much because it makes sense. Somewhat, at least.

Either way, as I'm sure you know I'd rather trade Nelson than Nielsen. Nielsen is in the prime of his career on a team with very few veterans, is our best defensive forward, our best PKer, has a very reasonable cap hit and is signed all the way through the 2015/16 season. Not to mention he's the best shootout performer in the league.

Nelson's a great prospect, but with Strome in the system he should absolutely be trade bait. You could move him to wing, but with Moulson, Okposo, Bailey and soon-to-be Nino in the top-6 I see him having more value to us in a trade than I do in him playing 3rd line LW.

Just say no to trading Frans.

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12-29-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
If it's a top-6 pick, I'd move Vlasic+ a little.
I would strongly consider that, depending on where in the top-6 that pick falls, and depending on what that "+" would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
MacDonald is a nice player, but he's not a top 4 on a good team.
I think he's a good #4. A guy who could play effectively in a 2nd pairing role if need-be, but probably a guy you'd rather have holding down your 3rd pairing.

Either way I think he's a quality defender. Especially with that contract.

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12-30-2012, 12:49 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
MacDonald has played quality top pairing minutes for 2 yrs now. Frans Nielsen is a strong defensive 5 on 5 player and strong pk player.They are among the least of the NYI problems. The fact that the 6'0 190 lbs MacDonald is not a crease clearer means jack. Get a bigger, more physical d-man for that role.



Expecting 35/36 yr olds Streit and Vis to rebound from disappointing 2011-2012 seasons could be a problem.

Expecting Boyes, coming off his 8 goal season to replace Parenteau in the top 6, could be a problem. Keeping Nabakov sharp if they go with a 3 goalie rotation, could be a problem

Instead of getting the ROY all set for Brock Nelson or Strome, how about letting one of them actually win the 2nd line spot from Frans Nielsen?
How many of those two years did we make the playoffs??

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12-30-2012, 12:51 AM
  #38
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How many of those two years did we make the playoffs??
You want him to put the team on his back doe?

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12-30-2012, 03:08 AM
  #39
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hmmm,
NYI needs defensemen, preferably young. Coyotes have a surplus/logjam. NYI may trade a 3rd line center, Coyotes need one, That 3rd line center is currently playing in Finland on a line with our favorite Dane. NYI may even have interest in Tikhonov as a throw in. Torres may need to be traded to an Eastern team. Summers and Schlemko are available. Would the Isles have any interest in any of these players? Nino Niederreiter would be another player that the Coyotes would be interested in. Can we deal?

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12-30-2012, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
With so many rookies pushing for blueline spots,Isles need someone to play well defensively and be a mentor over several seasons.

Is strong defensive play, really Green's calling card?
If you go by actually watching games instead of hf's recycled groupthink from 5 years ago, yes it is.

He's not a guy like Alzner whose job it is to stay back and anchor a pairing defensively, but he can more than hold his own. He dragged Jeff Schultz to an NHL career, who makes Jurcina look like a legit top 4. If Reinhart can hold his own defensively on at least an average 2nd pairing level MacDonald-Harmonic and Reinhart-Green is a very strong top 4.


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12-30-2012, 04:13 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
How many of those two years did we make the playoffs??


How many playoff games in an Isle jersey, have we had with Hamonic, JT and Moulson?



Place the blame for the isles bad defense where it deserves to be the few yrs: Jurcina, Staios, Mottou, Streit post-surgery, Gervais.

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12-30-2012, 04:20 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
If you go by actually watching games instead of hf's recycled groupthink from 5 years ago, yes it is.

He's not a guy like Alzner whose job it is to stay back and anchor a pairing defensively, but he can more than hold his own. He dragged Jeff Schultz to an NHL career, who makes Jurcina look like a legit top 4. If Reinhart can hold his own defensively on at least an average 2nd pairing level MacDonald-Harmonic and Reinhart-Green is a very strong top 4.

Several months ago, I proposed an Alzner to LI proposal on this board.


I want the guy who'll anchor the blueline with so many pmd prospects, among the Isles top defensemen. I'm not concerned with pts, I'm concerned with finding a defensive rock for the blueline, one who'll compliment the pmd like Donovan ( #3 potential and looking nhl ready).

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12-30-2012, 04:46 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
hmmm,
NYI needs defensemen, preferably young. Coyotes have a surplus/logjam. NYI may trade a 3rd line center, Coyotes need one, That 3rd line center is currently playing in Finland on a line with our favorite Dane. NYI may even have interest in Tikhonov as a throw in. Torres may need to be traded to an Eastern team. Summers and Schlemko are available. Would the Isles have any interest in any of these players? Nino Niederreiter would be another player that the Coyotes would be interested in. Can we deal?
I think you confused Rundblad and Gormley with Summer and Schlemko in your offer



Isles have at least 2 rookie d-men, Donovan+ Ness, who'll push for a roster spot if the lockout ends this season. Reinhart+ De Haan will push for spots in the 2013-2014 training camp. Also Mayfield, Pelech, Pedan, Pokka, Kitchon arein the pipeline.
So, I doubt Snow's shopping for blueline prospects.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1383
6. Chris Summers, Defense
2010-11 Ranking: 5th
Date of birth: 02/05/1988
Age: 23
Height: 6'2''
Weight: 210
Shoots: Left
Statistics: 28 GP, 0 G, 2 P (Portland-AHL)
Acquired: First round, 29th overall in 2006 by Phoenix

The Good: Summers is a plus skater who one source describes as having great mobility and very good skating mechanics. His defensive game is his calling card, as he checks talented forwards at a desirable level. Summers plays a firm, tough physical game and his overall defensive end reads tend to be the right ones.

The Bad: Summers has fringe offensive ability and while his puck-moving looked a little better this year in terms of his decision pace, he's a basic first-pass type of player.

Projection: He could be a third pairing defender.

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12-30-2012, 06:33 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
Scaling down the trade a bit to something like this (Ballard for Nielsen) is pretty close and makes sense from a hockey standpoint, not necessarily from a salary standpoint, and unfortunately, it's the salary standpoint which holds the most weight.... Nielsen has a team friendly deal in place..... Ballard is earning a lot more than he is producing... But Ballard would certainly be an upgrade from Jurcina, Staois, Reese for the next new years...
I'm looking at your team structure from capgeek and seems like there isn't anything there (outside of Reasoner) that would allow more cap relief for the Isles in this deal.. so you must ride a really tight ship budgetwise. If I were to analyse this and propose a tweak, the only thing beneficial enough for both parties would be making a switch between Reasoner and a guy like Andrew Ebbett that costs (800k) less. Judging from talks last season he's close to being done, but he could still be used in the Wolves in the AHL, whereas Ebbett is a serviceable veteran that could be used for a variety of things, like stopgapping a bottom line or routine play on an AHL team (16 points in 26 games). Making an adjustment like this would also render the prospect swap meaningless as it's more even this say, so that would make the deal Frans Nielsen and Marty Reasoner for Keith Ballard and Andrew Ebbett. Add a minor prospect swap of equal value if you want but that would be the foundation.

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12-30-2012, 07:12 AM
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David Rundblad and the Coyotes 2nd rounder for Nielsen. Rundblad is NHL-ready, or really close to it, and have a very high upside.

EDIT: Because I really want the Coyotes to get Nielsen to play with Bödker because they're tearing up the SM-Liiga right now I'd be willing to throw in Torres as a grinder that can score now and then and maybe throw around the rest of the Atlantic division.

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12-30-2012, 07:42 AM
  #46
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David Rundblad and the Coyotes 2nd rounder for Nielsen. Rundblad is NHL-ready, or really close to it, and have a very high upside.

EDIT: Because I really want the Coyotes to get Nielsen to play with Bödker because they're tearing up the SM-Liiga right now I'd be willing to throw in Torres as a grinder that can score now and then and maybe throw around the rest of the Atlantic division.
Isles 2012-2013 top 4 is set with Hamonic, Streit, Vis and McDonald. Carkner is expected to pair with one of the ahl kids(Donovan/Ness) on the 3rd pairing.

Isles owner is saying he thinks this group is good enough, to make the playoffs if we get the lockout settled. So, regardless of what fans think of Frans Nielsen being expendable at this point, it's very unlikely that Snow agrees to trade 28 yr old FN for a 1st or 2nd yr D, headed to the isles #6/#7 spot.

It's been pointed out that only Hamonic/MacDonald/Carkner are signed beyond 2012-2013. Snow will have to make some moves, but not until the season ends. We'll see in the summer whether that's extending Streit and trading for another top 4 or letting Streit walk and signing/trading for two top 4 d-men...

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12-30-2012, 10:46 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I love the ???? at the end, as if the isles would add to that homer proposal.

Go and read some of the NYI pre-draft articles from the last several drafts. Read Snow's trade demand: a young player, who's upside is on the level of the players Snow has available on the board.

Also, read the Dec. 18, 2012 nhl.com Snow interview. Snow repeats that he's sticking with his youth movement, to expect more youngsters on the roster.
I've seen what Snow has been saying. But all he is doing is getting high draft picks with no real mentors. You don't build a team around all young players and add mentor here and their. I think NJ has a great system the way they handel there young and older player. With the youth that the NYI already have if they would just get some top notch player to mentor the younger ones we would be set.

Both Salvador and Greene would be great adds. both have 3 more year. Sally at 3.166 mil Greene at 3 mil.

So yes i think that we may have to add a little too Neilsen and (2013) 1st round pick .

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12-30-2012, 10:59 AM
  #48
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I've seen what Snow has been saying. But all he is doing is getting high draft picks with no real mentors. You don't build a team around all young players and add mentor here and their. I think NJ has a great system the way they handel there young and older player. With the youth that the NYI already have if they would just get some top notch player to mentor the younger ones we would be set.

Both Salvador and Greene would be great adds. both have 3 more year. Sally at 3.166 mil Greene at 3 mil.

.
I think the isles planned to have 35/36 yr old pmds Vis and Streit, mentor the rookie pmds De Haan/Donovan/Ness.

Trading a 1st rounder + Nielsen for a pair of 30+ something yr olds, who'll be on the 3rd pairing behind Hamonic/Streit/MacDonald/Vis, is not a Snow type move.
That's more a Milbury type blunder

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12-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I think you confused Rundblad and Gormley with Summer and Schlemko in your offer
Isles have at least 2 rookie d-men, Donovan+ Ness, who'll push for a roster spot if the lockout ends this season. Reinhart+ De Haan will push for spots in the 2013-2014 training camp. Also Mayfield, Pelech, Pedan, Pokka, Kitchon arein the pipeline.
So, I doubt Snow's shopping for blueline prospects.
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1383
6. Chris Summers, Defense
2010-11 Ranking: 5th
Date of birth: 02/05/1988
Age: 23
Height: 6'2''
Weight: 210
Shoots: Left
Statistics: 28 GP, 0 G, 2 P (Portland-AHL)
Acquired: First round, 29th overall in 2006 by Phoenix
The Good: Summers is a plus skater who one source describes as having great mobility and very good skating mechanics. His defensive game is his calling card, as he checks talented forwards at a desirable level. Summers plays a firm, tough physical game and his overall defensive end reads tend to be the right ones.
The Bad: Summers has fringe offensive ability and while his puck-moving looked a little better this year in terms of his decision pace, he's a basic first-pass type of player.
Projection: He could be a third pairing defender.
Do the Islanders only have 43 contracts?

Quoting stats.
All that means is that he isn't needed as much as Oliver Ekman-Larsson or Keith Yandle and the Coyotes prefer RH d'men to pair up with those 2. And he could use more ice time. And yes he is a defensive d'man with some size and is relaiable, mobile, and relatively cheap. He would be a 3rd pairing on most teams by now. The question is if he could step up to the typical top 4. I have more confidence in Summers than Rundblad and Gormley in his defensive abilities, also I thought that the Islanders had some interest in a defensive d'man and knowing Snow, he would want 1 on a cheap contract who wants to get more ice time.
I was expecting the Coyotes to showcase Summers and Schlemko to start the season, now that the season is shorten and compacted, it would make it harder. The Coyotes may carry 8 d'men if the season starts in January.


Last edited by DesertDawg: 12-30-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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12-30-2012, 11:50 AM
  #50
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Quoting stats.
All that means is that he isn't needed as much as Oliver Ekman-Larsson or Keith Yandle and the Coyotes prefer RH d'men to pair up with those 2. And he could use more ice time. And yes he is a defensive d'man with some size and is relaiable, mobile, and relatively cheap. He would be a 3rd pairing on most teams by now. The question is if he could step up to the typical top 4. I have more confidence in Summers than Rundblad and Gormley in his defensive abilities, also I thought that the Islanders had some interest in a defensive d'man and knowing Snow, he would want 1 on a cheap contract who wants to get more ice time.

C'mon. Because an armchair gm wants Snow to make a move, doesn't mean Snow is looking to make that move. I've been posting that I want Snow to pickup a Morrow/Cleary/Malholtra type leader for the youngsters... doesn't mean Snow's in agreement

If Snow is moving any combo of Nielsen/top prospects/1st rounder to improve his D, then I expect he will bring back a young, quality top 4 d-man. Not another developing prospect who's upside is no higher then his own incoming group of Reinhart/ De Haan/Donovan/Ness/ Mayfield/ Pelech/ Pedan/ Pokka/ Kitchon.

and btw, I'm not saying Nielsen won't end up dealt in another 1-2 seasons. I'm saying the isles sound pleased with their current top 4 and reportedly want Carkner to pair with one of the rookies on the 3rd pairing.
Snow will have some decisions to make over the summer about his blueline. Isles are hoping for a playoff push this season, so imo they won't deal Nielsen at this time because of worries over the 2013-2014 D.

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