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Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

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Old
12-30-2012, 12:11 PM
  #26
Frankie
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
JFJ was a rookie GM thrust into a situation he shouldnt have been. He was a marionette GM if there ever was one.
jfj really wasn't given enough time for you to say he shouldn't have been in the situation in the first place.

he was a new gm, he should have been given 10 years before being judged, if you accept ken holland's idea.

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12-30-2012, 12:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Rask last time I checked hasnt led Boston anywhere.

The Leafs traded Toskala for the pick that became Lars Eller..not Couture who was picked before. The only reason you say its bad is because you have hindsight.

Can I say I think Burke should be fired because he shouldve traded up one spot from Kadri to pick OEL?

Wouldn't be fair. Hindsight.


Fact is JFJ had a way better record than Burke in his time here, and a better scouting record too. None of Burkes picks have made the NHL. Many of JFJs have. And it is sad Im defending him...look at me...but really only to benchmark how worse Burke has been,

Jfjs prospects made it because they developed. Fire Burke today and in five years some of his prospects are on the team.

Jfj inherited one of, if not the best Leaf ever in Sundin. Burke inherited Tomas Kaberle and some good prospects just now showing what they are

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12-30-2012, 12:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Jfjs prospects made it because they developed. Fire Burke today and in five years some of his prospects are on the team.

Jfj inherited one of, if not the best Leaf ever in Sundin. Burke inherited Tomas Kaberle and some good prospects just now showing what they are
They also made it despite the Leafs finishing nearly in the playoffs...as opposed to the Leafs who have been one of the worst teams in the league under Burke.

We should not only have better prospects than we do because we've been so bad...but at least one should be on the roster making a difference. Not one though.

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12-30-2012, 12:22 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
jfj really wasn't given enough time for you to say he shouldn't have been in the situation in the first place.

he was a new gm, he should have been given 10 years before being judged, if you accept ken holland's idea.
JFJ shouldnt have been here in the first place. He was gm in name only

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12-30-2012, 12:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
We've sucked for so long and you are willing to suck more just to see a fat oaf continue to drive this once noble team off the cliff?

One question:

When does the sucking end?

I mean we clearly aren't tanking because Brian Burke doesn't believe in that (and has traded multiple first round picks for good measure)

We clearly have been trying desperately to make the playoffs every year based on every move he's made (spending to the cap ceiling, trading multiple first round picks) but we've failed each and every time.

How much more failure are people comfortable with ?
And has traded for multiple first round picks...

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12-30-2012, 12:24 PM
  #31
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Burke has done many good things and many negative things. For me, at this point, his overall body of work tells me he stays for a least a couple of years.

Having said that, his biggest mistake was allowing RWilson as much rope as he did. RW hockey was nothing close to what BB promised and he should have pulled the plug on Ronnie at the end of the 10/11 season. I get that the RW extension last December was arguably meaningless, but I was extremely unhappy that it was done and even more upset at BB for allowing that clown Wilson to embarrass the Leafs by his twitter announcement last Christmas. Highly unprofessional.

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12-30-2012, 12:25 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Rask last time I checked hasnt led Boston anywhere.

The Leafs traded Toskala for the pick that became Lars Eller..not Couture who was picked before. The only reason you say its bad is because you have hindsight.

Can I say I think Burke should be fired because he shouldve traded up one spot from Kadri to pick OEL?

Wouldn't be fair. Hindsight.


Fact is JFJ had a way better record than Burke in his time here, and a better scouting record too. None of Burkes picks have made the NHL. Many of JFJs have. And it is sad Im defending him...look at me...but really only to benchmark how worse Burke has been,
So it's fair to judge Burke using hindsight, but not JFJ?

Quote:
He said he doesn't believe it should take five years and he'll do it sooner...certainly acted upon that idea by promptly sending the highest draft pick the Leafs have ever encountered out the door.
When the pick was traded it wasn't the "highest pick the leafs ever encountered". It was a first round pick, that simple.

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Old
12-30-2012, 12:33 PM
  #33
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JFJ inherited a better team than Burke did. JFJ had career seasons of Mccabe/Kaberle and Sundin as a #1 centre. Who cares if the teams did better than Burke's? They still missed the playoffs.

And comparing JFJ's draft picks to Burke's is absurd. Burke's has not developed yet.

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12-30-2012, 12:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Saul Goodman View Post
When the pick was traded it wasn't the "highest pick the leafs ever encountered". It was a first round pick, that simple.
It's certainly part of the GM's job to have an understanding of where their team should compete when they're trading first round picks though, no?

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12-30-2012, 12:39 PM
  #35
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Can you guys stop whining. We got a superstar who was 21 at the time of the trade. Who the hell predicted he'd be a PPG player without Marc Savard,

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12-30-2012, 12:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Can you guys stop whining. We got a superstar who was 21 at the time of the trade. Who the hell predicted he'd be a PPG player without Marc Savard,
True enough, I think any criticism of Burke shouldn't revolve much around that trade.

It's tough judging Burke, I don't think there have been many impactful gaffes, and it gets really blurry when you're judging a GM for the moves he didn't make.

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12-30-2012, 01:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by exporta View Post
And has traded for multiple first round picks...
I like how people ignore this. I also like how they ignore Kessel in the "Kessel" deal. Of course, you're also likely to find them bashing Reilly and bent over for Hamilton.....

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12-30-2012, 01:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
JFJ shouldnt have been here in the first place. He was gm in name only
why shouldn't he have been hired in the first place? you're judging him based on his time in toronto, which wasn't close to 10 years.

his title was gm, so we have to assume he had the same powers and authority as any other gm in the league. doesn't really matter much to your argument though. if someone else was pulling the strings, then that person should have gotten 10 years before being judged.

if you buy ken holland's idea, then you have to admit jfj was judged far too early into his tenure and should have been given 10 years.

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12-30-2012, 01:52 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I like how people ignore this. I also like how they ignore Kessel in the "Kessel" deal. Of course, you're also likely to find them bashing Reilly and bent over for Hamilton.....
I've noticed this. Phil Kessel doesn't exist in the "Kessel Deal".

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12-30-2012, 01:58 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I like how people ignore this. I also like how they ignore Kessel in the "Kessel" deal. Of course, you're also likely to find them bashing Reilly and bent over for Hamilton.....
WTF do you think people are ignoring ? The team finished 7th last in back to back seasons yet for some reason his supporters keep saying there's no way he could have known he was giving up the 2nd and 9th overall picks . I also love how on one hand his supporters say this rebuild is taking so long because the team was god awful when he took over then turn around and say there's no way anyone could have known the picks would be this high .

What has Kessel done for the team in his 3 years here ? Yes he's done what Burke expected of him but it has made zero difference in the standings .

WTF does Reilly have to do with Hamilton ? They're both excellent prospects and i don't need to knock one to be a fan of the other .

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12-30-2012, 02:00 PM
  #41
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That's like saying John Tavares doesn't make a difference. This isn't the NBA, you need more than 1 star.

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12-30-2012, 02:02 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Arik Kristal View Post

Gerber - MISTAKE # 2...same time I respect the man for wanting to make his team as best as possible but in the end the pick was going to BOS so really, he tried to ease the sting of giving up a top pick.
Gerber came in at the end of 2009, when we had our own pick. If we had just lost one or two more games, the Leafs would have jumped from 7th to 5th in the draft order, which would mean a swap of Kadri for Schenn or Oliver Ekman-Larsson potentially in our system. Kadri vs Schenn is up for debate, but if we had drafted OEL, our fortunes could have been very different the past year or two...

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12-30-2012, 02:08 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
JFJ shouldnt have been here in the first place. He was gm in name only
JFJ had full autonomy and admitted as much when he said the only time anyone interfered with his job was when he asked to do a full rebuild and was told that wasn't an option . However he only wanted to do a full rebuild once he failed at retooling a 100 pt team .

JFJ unlike Burke wasn't allowed to fail multiple times and if you want to blame the ownership for anything it's that they didn't allow him to keep trying to ice a quality team after multiple failed seasons .

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12-30-2012, 02:09 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
JFJ made his share of awful moves.

Rask for Raycroft is an utter disaster with absolutely zero benfit for our team. How much better would we look if we traded up and selected Couture instead of trading our pick for Toskala?
I'm not one to defend the Rask for Raycroft trade but I remember hearing JFJ originally wanted to trade Pogge for Raycroft, however Boston didn't want him and got their wish by getting Rask.

So had Toronto still kept Rask and got Raycroft for Pogge would they be a better team today or not?

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12-30-2012, 02:13 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
That's like saying John Tavares doesn't make a difference. This isn't the NBA, you need more than 1 star.
What about the other stars i keep hearing Burke aquired like Lupul and Dion ? All these starts and yet the team still finished 26th .

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12-30-2012, 02:13 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by LeafsRReady View Post
Burke has done many good things and many negative things. For me, at this point, his overall body of work tells me he stays for a least a couple of years.

Having said that, his biggest mistake was allowing RWilson as much rope as he did. RW hockey was nothing close to what BB promised and he should have pulled the plug on Ronnie at the end of the 10/11 season. I get that the RW extension last December was arguably meaningless, but I was extremely unhappy that it was done and even more upset at BB for allowing that clown Wilson to embarrass the Leafs by his twitter announcement last Christmas. Highly unprofessional.
those kinds of moves wont happen with bell /rogers owning the team ...if they extend burke ,it wont be with full atonomy ,and hence once burke wouldve been forced to fire wilson ,never mind give him a million dollar bonus ,its not whether burke should be extended ,its rather can burke work for bosses who expect results,my guess is burke wont want to answer to anyone ,i mean how is he explaining extending ron wilson ,then canning him ,canning francios allare ,dicking around with lousy goaltending ,and possibly having to ask the new board to give phill kessel a raise
i think burke will be gone ,especially if in a 48 game season ,kesel has even one of those 7-12 game goaless streaks ....

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12-30-2012, 02:14 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
What about the other stars i keep hearing Burke aquired like Lupul and Dion ? All these starts and yet the team still finished 26th .
You're nothing without goaltending and good coaching.

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12-30-2012, 02:14 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I'm not one to defend the Rask for Raycroft trade but I remember hearing JFJ originally wanted to trade Pogge for Raycroft, however Boston didn't want him and got their wish by getting Rask.

So had Toronto still kept Rask and got Raycroft for Pogge would they be a better team today or not?
Toronto would be a better team with Rask in my estimation.

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12-30-2012, 02:15 PM
  #49
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Craig Button was advising JFJ to trade Rask.

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12-30-2012, 02:22 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
You're nothing without goaltending and good coaching.
You should explain that to Burke , then again Burke did think he had a great coach when he said Ronnie was his num 1 star .

Also if it's all about the goalie and the coach then Burke should and traded the picks for a star goalie and not a soft one way winger .

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