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Sam Gagner and Ryan Whitney

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:09 PM
  #51
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Dude Gagner sucks
Says the guy who most likely never stays up to watch him.

I know it's one game but 8 points in one night is not something that a guy who's not a bonafide top 6er can even approach. He's a solid young center.

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:11 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
This is utter nonsense. Gags is a .6 PPG forward who has never once scored less than 41 points. He has drastically improved his skating, he fights, and he sticks up for teammates. Some Oiler fans want to get a bigger #2 C because he plays to similar to Nuge, not because he isn't good enough. The Gagner hate from other teams fans has become flat out comical
hahaha. I swear the first thing i thought when i read that comment was "nonsense".lol

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12-29-2012, 01:28 PM
  #53
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maybe Whitney+Gagner for Hamilton + Krejci + 2nd

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12-29-2012, 01:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
None of what you said makes it utter nonsense. In fact, your "positive spin" on Gagner is comical. You are using Gagner's pugilistic capabilities as a positive part of his game? Seriously?

There is no Gagner hate. I don't hate the guy. I just don't want him as a 2nd line centerman on my team. This seems to be a constant among HF forum members (including many Oiler fans). He's too small, too soft, not productive enough, not great defensively. He's just not good enough and he doesn't have the ability to be a good 3rd line centerman.

Just accept the fact that he is not a good option as a 2nd line centerman and move on.
You know there was a time on here when Comrie>Zetterburg, the Sedins were garbage, Backes and Kesler looked like future 3rd liners, Cogliano was a future star, ect.. HFboards does not have the kind of reputation in being right that one would be wise to dismiss their observations and perception because people like you feel they should "just accept" that he's no good. The only evidence i ever see posted about Gagner not being good enough is never even factually based. People like you ignore his solid advanced stats, his +/-, his production, his developing physical game (he does not get pushed around like some pretend, that was Cogs), his age, can play every forward position, ect...

Instead people like you say:

He's too small (he's an inch under average height and he's 195, that's not small it's average). Of course you would never admit that a young man who plays bigger than his body and is average size at 22 will only get stronger making the size problem obsolete as he develops. His size is not the issue you would like to pretend it is.

Too soft? This is just dumb. Seriously stay up one night and at least watch one game with Gagner in it. I hate that argument but when people say something like this it's just too stupid to think you've actually even seen him play. Nobody questions his heart for a reason...

He doesn't score enough. You still say this despite the fact only 6 centers younger or the same age scored as much as him last year, and he's pretty much always comfortably in the top 60 while playing on a weak team with typically weak linemates (over his career).
The 6 centers who were younger and scored more? Seguin, Henrique, Stamkos, Tavares, Hopkins, Stepan. Of those players Stepan had virtually the same ppg despite being on a much better team. Henrique was in range and his linemates were Kovalchuck and Parise. Seguin didn't even actually play center. So basically Gagner outproduced or was very close to producing as much as almost every center his age or younger who wasn't the first center taken in the past 4 drafts. I should mention his fellow draftee Couture scored more but he's also nearly a full year older. How awful, you are right Gagner is developing horribly.

Not great defensively? That's fine, he's not a checking center was 22 last season and certainly was not a liability either. If an above average scorer is average defensively at 22 that is not a down arrow. He's never going to be a PKer, but he can certainly hold his own at evens. His +/- and advanced stats speak of a player who can push the puck the right way when he's out there.

And a bonus rebuttal, as i'm sure it will be brought up: He's awful at faceoffs. In what world is 48% awful? You guys know the average is 50%, right? 48% isn't ideal but it's not going to keep the coach up at night either. In fact 48% for a 22 year old is rather solid.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:27 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
You know there was a time on here when Comrie>Zetterburg, the Sedins were garbage, Backes and Kesler looked like future 3rd liners, Cogliano was a future star, ect.. HFboards does not have the kind of reputation in being right that one would be wise to dismiss their observations and perception because people like you feel they should "just accept" that he's no good. The only evidence i ever see posted about Gagner not being good enough is never even factually based. People like you ignore his solid advanced stats, his +/-, his production, his developing physical game (he does not get pushed around like some pretend, that was Cogs), his age, can play every forward position, ect...

Instead people like you say:

He's too small (he's an inch under average height and he's 195, that's not small it's average). Of course you would never admit that a young man who plays bigger than his body and is average size at 22 will only get stronger making the size problem obsolete as he develops. His size is not the issue you would like to pretend it is.

Too soft? This is just dumb. Seriously stay up one night and at least watch one game with Gagner in it. I hate that argument but when people say something like this it's just too stupid to think you've actually even seen him play. Nobody questions his heart for a reason...

He doesn't score enough. You still say this despite the fact only 6 centers younger or the same age scored as much as him last year, and he's pretty much always comfortably in the top 60 while playing on a weak team with typically weak linemates (over his career).
The 6 centers who were younger and scored more? Seguin, Henrique, Stamkos, Tavares, Hopkins, Stepan. Of those players Stepan had virtually the same ppg despite being on a much better team. Henrique was in range and his linemates were Kovalchuck and Parise. Seguin didn't even actually play center. So basically Gagner outproduced or was very close to producing as much as almost every center his age or younger who wasn't the first center taken in the past 4 drafts. I should mention his fellow draftee Couture scored more but he's also nearly a full year older. How awful, you are right Gagner is developing horribly.

Not great defensively? That's fine, he's not a checking center was 22 last season and certainly was not a liability either. If an above average scorer is average defensively at 22 that is not a down arrow. He's never going to be a PKer, but he can certainly hold his own at evens. His +/- and advanced stats speak of a player who can push the puck the right way when he's out there.

And a bonus rebuttal, as i'm sure it will be brought up: He's awful at faceoffs. In what world is 48% awful? You guys know the average is 50%, right? 48% isn't ideal but it's not going to keep the coach up at night either. In fact 48% for a 22 year old is rather solid.
But ummmm Turris was drafted 3rd so he's better.

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Old
12-29-2012, 09:18 PM
  #56
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyakasha View Post
maybe Whitney+Gagner for Hamilton + Krejci + 2nd
For Krejci Hamilton and a 2nd,, Nuge And Hall

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:03 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
For Krejci Hamilton and a 2nd,, Nuge And Hall
if you want Hall...... try Seguin, + Hamilton plus 2013 1st, 2014 1st just to get Edmonton to the table.
if you want to be taken serious, then please....get serious

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:49 PM
  #58
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Sam Gagner is a good player, but I would like to see a bigger body Centering the 2nd line. Oilers need a Travis Zajac.

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:54 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Sharp10 View Post
Sam Gagner is a good player, but I would like to see a bigger body Centering the 2nd line. Oilers need a Travis Zajac.
Yeah We'll give them Zajac! just would like Eberle

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Old
12-29-2012, 11:09 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Yeah We'll give them Zajac! just would like Eberle
Eberle is best friends with Hall, so they come as a package deal...

soooo....what else you got comin with Zajac?

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:40 AM
  #61
Oates2Neely
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Originally Posted by Booyakasha View Post
if you want Hall...... try Seguin, + Hamilton plus 2013 1st, 2014 1st just to get Edmonton to the table.
if you want to be taken serious, then please....get serious
You won't get that package unless #99 found the fountain of youth and is included in the deal from the Edmonton side

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:42 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Says the guy who most likely never stays up to watch him.

I know it's one game but 8 points in one night is not something that a guy who's not a bonafide top 6er can even approach. He's a solid young center.
Oh that's right the 8 point nite! Ya that makes him a legit top-6 center.

Any team with a 2nd line 40 point center isnt going very far. Not unless they have a super amazing defense and goaltending to make up for their lack of a legit #2 center.

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12-30-2012, 09:51 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
You won't get that package unless #99 found the fountain of youth and is included in the deal from the Edmonton side
no, he's # 4...and he's worth that package! anything less would be criminal from boston.
even then...this is a gift from Edmonton.


Last edited by Booyakasha: 12-30-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 01:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Booyakasha View Post
no, he's # 4...and he's worth that package! anything less would be criminal from boston.
even then...this is a gift from Edmonton.
Hoping Hall can stay healthy,, so we can analyze what kind of player he actually is.

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Old
12-30-2012, 02:14 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Booyakasha View Post
no, he's # 4...and he's worth that package! anything less would be criminal from boston.
even then...this is a gift from Edmonton.
wait, you're being serious?

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12-30-2012, 02:33 PM
  #66
Oates2Neely
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And Gagner only scores 40 points despite being handed tons of ice time and unwarranted PP time, minutes that he would not get if he weren't on a bottom 5 team.

Gagner = Cogliano, Comrie, Robbie Schremph etc.. Lots of hype, never pan out to be much.

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Old
12-30-2012, 02:36 PM
  #67
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Gagner is so undervalued on these boards it's insane. I think because he's been in the league so long people forget how young he is. Dude is only 23 and has been putting up 40+ point seasons since he was 18. He has all the tools to be a solid 2C, whether or not he puts it together is still up in the air. 20+ goal, 60+ point seasons definitely are not out of his reach.

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12-30-2012, 02:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
wait, you're being serious?
serious as a heart attack,jack!

that dude makes some stupid proposals and posts some ignorant junk, so I respond in kind.....
he wouldn't know a turd from good chocolate.

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12-30-2012, 02:41 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Gagner is so undervalued on these boards it's insane. I think because he's been in the league so long people forget how young he is. Dude is only 23 and has been putting up 40+ point seasons since he was 18. He has all the tools to be a solid 2C, whether or not he puts it together is still up in the air. 20+ goal, 60+ point seasons definitely are not out of his reach.
He's handed top-6 minutes and still can't produce more than 40 points! He won't amount to much in this league. He'll be a journeyman center/ winger, count on it.

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12-30-2012, 02:43 PM
  #70
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Seguin is already better than Hall,, Edmonton would have to add for #19. IMO there is nothing on the Oilers roster I would trade for Seguin. He's too explosive,, his toolbox is uatched by any player in an Oilers uniform.

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12-30-2012, 02:46 PM
  #71
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....the posts above prove my point.

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12-30-2012, 02:49 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Gagner is so undervalued on these boards it's insane. I think because he's been in the league so long people forget how young he is. Dude is only 23 and has been putting up 40+ point seasons since he was 18. He has all the tools to be a solid 2C, whether or not he puts it together is still up in the air. 20+ goal, 60+ point seasons definitely are not out of his reach.
I think that's a fair expectation if he gets to centre Hall and Ebs (which is how I'd roll the lines). I think the Oil would be better served putting The Nuge and Hemmer with Yakupov. I wouldn't look to move Gagner just yet, and fully expect the Oil to give him a 2 yr deal this summer (probably @ 3.5 per). When there is hockey again, and if the Oil are poised to make the playoffs (which would probably require Gagner to be on pace for a 55ish point season), he could be packaged with a 1st + prospect for a big name rental at trade deadline. I don't think he'll net much currently though, and for that reason I'm fine with keeping him.

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Old
12-30-2012, 02:51 PM
  #73
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....the posts above prove my point.
Proves what point?

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Old
12-30-2012, 02:58 PM
  #74
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Gagner's value isn't that high, but the only thing keeping it up is the slim potential that he could magically find his game and burst out like Sedin did. That potential will only last a little bit longer. I give him the rest of whatever this year may bring and all of next season before we can really call him what he is. Five seasons of not much progression production wise is not a good sign.

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12-30-2012, 02:59 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I think that's a fair expectation if he gets to centre Hall and Ebs (which is how I'd roll the lines). I think the Oil would be better served putting The Nuge and Hemmer with Yakupov. I wouldn't look to move Gagner just yet, and fully expect the Oil to give him a 2 yr deal this summer (probably @ 3.5 per). When there is hockey again, and if the Oil are poised to make the playoffs (which would probably require Gagner to be on pace for a 55ish point season), he could be packaged with a 1st + prospect for a big name rental at trade deadline. I don't think he'll net much currently though, and for that reason I'm fine with keeping him.
What team is in the market for a small 40 point centerman who is meh defensively?

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