So that leaves 3 voters who ranked Holmes in Vote 6 but not in Vote 7. 1 ranked him 6th in vote 6, 1 ranked him 7th in vote 6, 1 ranked him 8th in vote 6.
Makes sense now. Barrasso, Joseph, and Rayner got some pretty good support in the discussion thread despite being new additions.
Rayner had 6 voters leave him off altogether, yet he makes the top 4. Guess he was the guy with the biggest discrepancies.
Have to wonder if Fuhr would have been such an overwhelming choice if Billy Smith hadn't made it last round?
I didn't send a list for this round (got swamped at work this week, all kinds of callouts due to the holidays AND influenza callouts at the same time is bad news when you work in medicine), but I would say yes. He was basically within legit striking distance of Lehman for #4 last round. Probably would have been maybe 6-8 points closer but that's about as far as I'd go.
Have to wonder if Fuhr would have been such an overwhelming choice if Billy Smith hadn't made it last round?
I don't know that it was a factor. He had 15 votes for #1-5 in the last round, so once four of those other goaltenders got listed, he was going to rack up some support. It also helps that outside of Rayner, most of the new competition was from his era.
Here are the results of vote 8. There were 21 out of a possible 27 voters this round
Player
Total
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
N/R
Tom Barrasso
109
6
3
1
1
4
4
0
1
1
Hap Holmes
103
6
2
3
1
2
2
2
0
3
Curtis Joseph
93
3
5
2
2
1
1
2
1
4
Ed Giacomin
81
2
3
5
1
0
1
2
2
5
Rogie Vachon
72
1
0
3
5
3
3
2
2
2
Alec Connell
63
2
1
3
2
0
0
2
2
9
John Vanbiesbrouck
59
1
0
1
4
3
2
3
1
6
Percy LeSueur
48
0
2
1
2
3
1
1
1
10
Roberto Luongo
45
0
1
1
1
2
4
3
1
8
Tim Thomas
28
0
1
0
2
1
1
1
2
13
Lorne Chabot
22
0
2
0
0
1
0
0
0
18
Gerry Cheevers
12
0
0
1
0
1
1
0
3
15
Vladimir Dzurilla
9
0
1
0
0
0
0
1
0
19
Mike Liut
8
0
0
0
0
0
1
1
3
16
Dave Kerr
4
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
2
18
Giacomin and Connell were the really controversial candidates this round (lots of high and low votes, almost no middle votes). Giacomin got enough support to make the cut; Connell did not.
I'm just surprised that Beezer is considered that much different than Barrasso and Joseph...if anything, I think Beezer was more consistent over the course of his career and did it on some pretty "meh" teams...Joseph also plays on some "meh" teams in his time, but didn't seem to be recognized by the league's GMs as much for his efforts...which isn't the only thing to look for, certainly, but I thought those 3 would stick together.
Even as a Penguins fan, I had Barrasso last of the 3. Too inconsistent for my liking. His peak is nice, sure, but honestly, he just wasn't that reliable when push came to shove. His best is better than Beezer or CuJo's best, but his average isn't...
Good to see Luongo ahead of Thomas in terms of contemporaries there...I think that's spot on.
So approximately 8 people put their fingers in their ears and go LALALALALA whenever something realistic about Connell is posted.
If you reverse justify the statistics, you can use them in the future. If the statistics show flaws, you lose your crutch (not you seventieslord, speaking in general).
People will go to great lengths to ensure that the statistics hold up so more complete analysis does not have to be initiated...
Haha! and I don't even dislike using stats that much, when there are good ones! But GAA is not a good one, at all.
I was pleasantly surprised about your positive push for CuJo despite the fairly iffy stats and voting stuff...I look forward to using it against you at some point in the future when you try to "stat" me...
I was pleasantly surprised about your positive push for CuJo despite the fairly iffy stats and voting stuff...I look forward to using it against you at some point in the future when you try to "stat" me...
Cujo's voting stuff is iffy. His stats are not. Strictly based on save percentage, he looks closer to Brodeur and Belfour than he does to Eddie Giacomin.
(Of course, there's more to goalies than only save percentage).
Cujo's voting stuff is iffy. His stats are not. Strictly based on save percentage, he looks closer to Brodeur and Belfour than he does to Eddie Giacomin.
(Of course, there's more to goalies than only save percentage).
Yeah, I just remember him having only 2 top-5 finishes in save pct. And they were both on defensive-minded Blues teams, so I figured as such. It's immaterial now though...I think he's in a good spot regardless of the paper...
We'll be doing the top 40 goalies of all time. The option to extend lost fairly convincingly. 9 for, 10 against, 2 abstained, 6 didn't vote at all. It needed an absolute majority (14 votes) to pass. Looks like next round will be the last round of the goalies project.
I'll post the results soon. One voter has a problem with his ballot and I'm giving him another half hour so so to fix it.
We'll be doing the top 40 goalies of all time. The option to extend lost fairly convincingly. 9 for, 10 against, 2 abstained, 6 didn't vote at all. It needed an absolute majority (14 votes) to pass. Looks like next round will be the last round of the goalies project.
I'll post the results soon. One voter has a problem with his ballot and I'm giving him another half hour so so to fix it.
My brain interpret the failure to communicate the results as evidence that one voter could change the rankings
We'll be doing the top 40 goalies of all time. The option to extend lost fairly convincingly. 9 for, 10 against, 2 abstained, 6 didn't vote at all. It needed an absolute majority (14 votes) to pass. Looks like next round will be the last round of the goalies project.
I'll post the results soon. One voter has a problem with his ballot and I'm giving him another half hour so so to fix it.
Not surprising, it's really shocking how weak the field has gotten.
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Not surprising, it's really shocking how weak the field has gotten.
It actually does, but...
+ It's also time where some goalies who have to add to their resumes might sneak in (mainly Lundqvist and Luongo)
+ On a totally unrelated topic, I'm surprised that Dave Kerr was available that soon. I had him myself in my Top-40, and I feel he's a legit Top-40 guy. But he's something of a relative unknown -- my feeling, anyways.
+ It's also time where some goalies who have to add to their resumes might sneak in (mainly Lundqvist and Luongo)
+ On a totally unrelated topic, I'm surprised that Dave Kerr was available that soon. I had him myself in my Top-40, and I feel he's a legit Top-40 guy. But he's something of a relative unknown -- my feeling, anyways.
Dave Kerr is a legit top 30-35 goalie all time.
Glad to see that the original premise of 40 was respected.
