HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 World Junior Championships

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-30-2012, 03:09 PM
  #601
puck stoppa
Registered User
 
puck stoppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,887
vCash: 500
I will give Subban credit when he continues to play well and becomes the best goalie in the tourney. Im sick of other country's goalies outplaying ours and Im glad Subban had a great game as its good to see a goalie win one for us for a change, but I want to see that consistent play the rest of the way, tomorrow and into the medal round. When you play every game you get into a rhythym and I want him to prove me wrong in the end but his lack of rebound control still scares me.
Most of the earlier posts nailed the Trouba Scheif talk, but as for another note, I have been rather dissapointed with Hubs this tourney, it almost looks like Schief has surpassed him from last year's tourney to now, simply cause of heart.

puck stoppa is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:12 PM
  #602
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I will give Subban credit when he continues to play well and becomes the best goalie in the tourney. Im sick of other country's goalies outplaying ours and Im glad Subban had a great game as its good to see a goalie win one for us for a change, but I want to see that consistent play the rest of the way, tomorrow and into the medal round. When you play every game you get into a rhythym and I want him to prove me wrong in the end but his lack of rebound control still scares me.
Most of the earlier posts nailed the Trouba Scheif talk, but as for another note, I have been rather dissapointed with Hubs this tourney, it almost looks like Schief has surpassed him from last year's tourney to now, simply cause of heart.
So Subban should be blamed for 5 years of shaky goaltending?

Paradise is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:13 PM
  #603
Duir
Registered Bunk
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 687
vCash: 500
Hey like I said garret, I'll gladly eat my words and publicly say I was wrong. But I don't see the kid dropping out of post-secondary to play hockey. If he valued development and fast-track to NHL he would have opted for the CHL. The NCAA offers competitive hockey and an education. He made the choice knowing these options and I would bet he sticks with it.

Duir is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:17 PM
  #604
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
I watch Scheifele play decent and he gets lifted to the status of king. I watch others players play superb and no recognition. I know this is the Jets board, but this is also a World Juniors thread. Is it really impossible to view games without bias?

Sometimes I feel like it's the Twilight Zone in here...

Paradise is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:20 PM
  #605
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunk View Post
Hey like I said garret, I'll gladly eat my words and publicly say I was wrong. But I don't see the kid dropping out of post-secondary to play hockey. If he valued development and fast-track to NHL he would have opted for the CHL. The NCAA offers competitive hockey and an education. He made the choice knowing these options and I would bet he sticks with it.
A breath of fresh air. I rarely see this type of thinking in this forum. Good for you TheBunk for having an opinion of your own and standing by it

Paradise is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:23 PM
  #606
ps241
The Danish Dash!
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,028
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunk View Post
Hey like I said garret, I'll gladly eat my words and publicly say I was wrong. But I don't see the kid dropping out of post-secondary to play hockey. If he valued development and fast-track to NHL he would have opted for the CHL. The NCAA offers competitive hockey and an education. He made the choice knowing these options and I would bet he sticks with it.
Not sure TheBunk I can see him playing two years in Michigan then playing with the Jets and getting the balance of his education in summers like others have done. We'll see but I just don't see him spending 4 years as a full time student if his time has come to play in the NHL? I am not saying he isn't committed to getting his degree I don't look at it as an either or proposition.

ps241 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:23 PM
  #607
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 4,747
vCash: 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Just after the 3:00 mark


For those lazy the loose quote is:

I'll take it year by year. When I feel I'm ready to play I will.

I believe the "best option" thing is in regards to Michigan vs Kitchener... I've seen more than just this where he said he would come when called.
I say either 2014-15 or 2015-2016, depending on a few variables, is all but sure.
The 2014-15 season is my guess, but since he is eligable for the AHL I can see the Jets bringing him to camp next season with the idea of him spending a year in the A, if he doesn't push his why onto the team. He will likely need an adjustment year to the long schedule and grind of playing pro.

KingBogo is online now  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:24 PM
  #608
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I watch Scheifele play decent and he gets lifted to the status of king. I watch others players play superb and no recognition. I know this is the Jets board, but this is also a World Juniors thread. Is it really impossible to view games without bias?

Sometimes I feel like it's the Twilight Zone in here...
Who isn't getting recognized in your opinon? Subban had a couple of sub par games to start the tournament before playing a great game today.

surixon is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:29 PM
  #609
Jet
Moderator
Drop the danged puck
 
Jet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: New Glasgow
Country: Scotland
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I watch Scheifele play decent and he gets lifted to the status of king. I watch others players play superb and no recognition. I know this is the Jets board, but this is also a World Juniors thread. Is it really impossible to view games without bias?

Sometimes I feel like it's the Twilight Zone in here...
If you chat on the JETS board you have to expect JETS bias. If you don't want that, that is what the global boards are for.

This is a safe haven for people to be fanboys if they so wish. You don't have to like it but please respect it.

__________________
The Olympic Line
Jet is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:30 PM
  #610
puck stoppa
Registered User
 
puck stoppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,887
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
So Subban should be blamed for 5 years of shaky goaltending?
His first two games of the tourney were at par with the past five years. I want him to steal a few wins like he did today. Put a streak together and I would be glad to eat my words.

puck stoppa is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:37 PM
  #611
Jet
Moderator
Drop the danged puck
 
Jet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: New Glasgow
Country: Scotland
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 50
Holy smokes Trouba is fast. Loved his game, loved his meanness.

The US was really dumb at the end. How do you take 2 selfish stupid penalties down one with 4 minutes left in the 3rd? RNH also has to learn some control.

Loved when Huberdeau asked the American "Who are you? Who are you?"

Seth Jones was atrocious. I absolutely loved it, especially considering he said in the pre tourney that they were the best team. One loss from playing in the relegation round? Ok.

Jet is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:39 PM
  #612
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Who isn't getting recognized in your opinon? Subban had a couple of sub par games to start the tournament before playing a great game today.
Pretty much any other player that has a good game. I know that's vague, but there's been a lot of good games by other players in the tournament that seem to get over looked.

Canada's defence hasn't played very well either, yet there's very little talk about that. Let's be blunt about their play, it's been the *****. To me, Subban just seems to be the whipping boy. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of that, but it's entirely a misrepresentation of the entire teams defensive play, which has been less than spectacular. This team is poorly coached IMO and yet we seldom here about those deficiencies. Spot has shown an inability to problem solve and correct issues IMO.

Paradise is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:42 PM
  #613
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
If you chat on the JETS board you have to expect JETS bias. If you don't want that, that is what the global boards are for.

This is a safe haven for people to be fanboys if they so wish. You don't have to like it but please respect it.
I do respect it, but respect is a two way street. I'll take your advice and not post in this forum anymore.

Paradise is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:50 PM
  #614
Le Golie
...
 
Le Golie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunk View Post
Got to disagree with you ps241 and Flying High. And one day I may eat my words but I'm fine with that, but I see him finishing his post-secondary. As for turning down 550k to go to school? That's a no brainer in my part. He'll 39 years old and retired from his career. You have to think of the end game and where you'll be sitting at 65. Education will broaden his options. As much as I want to see him on our blue line, I think he's staying put. As for his interview, I have also seen others where he said he consulted with his family and the best options was schooling.
Trouba might play one more year of college tops. Playing all four years is almost unheard of for top prospects. Even Jack Johnson, who refused Carolina's requests to come to the NHL twice, only stayed two years. In the last 10 years I can't recall any top prospects off the top of my head that graduated college. Blake Wheeler played three years, that's as far as I can recall anyone going.

It's just not going to happen.

Le Golie is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 04:19 PM
  #615
Duir
Registered Bunk
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Trouba might play one more year of college tops. Playing all four years is almost unheard of for top prospects. Even Jack Johnson, who refused Carolina's requests to come to the NHL twice, only stayed two years. In the last 10 years I can't recall any top prospects off the top of my head that graduated college. Blake Wheeler played three years, that's as far as I can recall anyone going.

It's just not going to happen.
Rene Bourque
Brian Elliott
T.J. Oshie
Jamie McBain
Ryan McDonagh
Brenden Smith
Jake Dowell
Tom Gilbert
Chris Kreider
Jimmy Hayes
Kevin Shattenkirk
T.J. Hensick
David Moss
Al Montoya
Carl Hagelin
Mike Cammalleri
Justin Schultz

All did at least three years in college/university. And that's just to name a few.

Duir is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 04:28 PM
  #616
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
My assumption was based on a weak NHL team taking Jones with a top 2 pick, and having him join the club (even as a 3rd pairing dman) from the get go. He's a late birthday, so he'll be turning 19 next fall. Though it really depends on the team drafting him. A team like the Jets may just send him back if he's not ready. A team like the islanders would likely have him play at the NHL level.

I personally think Trouba is more NHL-ready, but will also return to school for one more year (imo).
For fun - which teams would "likely" start Jones in the NHL next year?

Islanders
Oilers

Who else?

truck is online now  
Old
12-30-2012, 04:30 PM
  #617
Duir
Registered Bunk
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 687
vCash: 500
Also:

Jeff Petry
Justin Abdelkader
Jim Slater
Alex Goligoski
Jason Gregoire
Matt Greene
Ryan Whitney
Mark Stuart
Matt Carle

Same deal. Did minimum three years. Not trying to be a jerk but your point is flawed.

Duir is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 04:56 PM
  #618
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
Perennial Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
Where do you get the no consistency from? It's obviously your opinion. I've followed him quite a lot this year and part of last year and don't agree with what you're saying. You should watch some of his games this year. He's playing on one of the worst goal scoring teams this year and keeping them in games. I'll agree that he lacks experience, but consistency, no. On a side note, he's amazing in the shootout.
I'll admit I followed him a lot more last season. Yes, this is my opinion, but it's a common critique. I have not seen all that much this season, I'll admit. But last year you only need to look at the first half to second half stats to see how he is a really streaky goalie. Gets hot and is unbeatable, then goes cold and lets in everything. Also prone to mental lapses, where weak momentum killing goals go in. It's actually super super common in highly athletic goalies like Mathieu Garon, Marc-Andre Fleury, etc. The flip side is if you become consistent as an athletic goalie, those are usually the best netminders in the league like Tim Thomas and Jonathan Quick. Subban can develop it, which is why his upside is huge, but he hasn't gotten there yet, IMO. Another very common thing is that athletic goaltenders are great is SO's and positional goalies are terrible, that's par for the course.

Holden Caulfield is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 05:10 PM
  #619
TroubaFan1
Registered User
 
TroubaFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
I really enjoyed that game today. Didn't really like all the penalties at the end, but thats what you get with European refs like we've stated all tourny. Can't wait for Russian game, should be a good one! Go Canada Go

TroubaFan1 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 05:15 PM
  #620
TroubaFan1
Registered User
 
TroubaFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I watch Scheifele play decent and he gets lifted to the status of king. I watch others players play superb and no recognition. I know this is the Jets board, but this is also a World Juniors thread. Is it really impossible to view games without bias?

Sometimes I feel like it's the Twilight Zone in here...
I do find it a bit odd you're surprised by the bias on the Jets board. Have you been on the Canucks board lately? Now thats bias.

TroubaFan1 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 05:50 PM
  #621
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,709
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunk View Post
Rene Bourque
Brian Elliott
T.J. Oshie
Jamie McBain
Ryan McDonagh
Brenden Smith
Jake Dowell
Tom Gilbert
Chris Kreider
Jimmy Hayes
Kevin Shattenkirk
T.J. Hensick
David Moss
Al Montoya
Carl Hagelin
Mike Cammalleri
Justin Schultz

All did at least three years in college/university. And that's just to name a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunk View Post
Also:

Jeff Petry
Justin Abdelkader
Jim Slater
Alex Goligoski
Jason Gregoire
Matt Greene
Ryan Whitney
Mark Stuart
Matt Carle

Same deal. Did minimum three years. Not trying to be a jerk but your point is flawed.
Understand your point too but you are also being flawed as you aren't really disputing his whole point. He was talking about how "high-end" prospects don't finish college.

Almost none of your guys were at Trouba's level as a prospect (at that time of development) and any that were did not finish their schooling.


Guys who actually finished college:
Rene Bourque was an undrafted player who after graduation was signed and then played a full season of AHL. Not a prospect (let alone high end one).
Jake Dowell was a 5th rounder and took 4 AHL seasons to be a NHL regular.
Tom Gilbert was a 5th rounder prospect who got traded for scraps (not a high-end prospect for sure).
T.J. Hensick 5th round and up and down AHL/NHL tweener.
David Moss 7th round pick and just under two seasons of AHL needed.
Carl Hagelin 6th round pick.
Jim Slater was late 1st rounder (30th) and was never considered a high-end prospect (although more was expected of him than he currently pulls off).


Didn't finish college
Brian Elliott was 9th round draft pick and also played a season of the AHL after university. Not a high end prospect.
T.J. Oshie was a late first rounder (but debatable high-end prospect as did really well in university) and didn't complete his university (only 3 years then signed).
Jamie McBain was a 2nd rounder and skipped his senior year and had to play 2 years of AHL.
Brendan Smith late first rounder, has only played 14 games of NHL in 3 seasons, and also didn't finish.
Jimmy Hayes late second rounder and didn't finish school (3 years)
Al Montoya... goaltender which would be a very strong reason why he would normally take full 4 years but didn't.
Mike Cammalleri was 2nd rounder and a late bloomer years later and still didn't finish college.
Justin Schultz 2nd rounder and also bit of a late bloomer (but bloomed in NCAA not AHL/NHL years like Schultz) and didn't finish.
Jeff Petry mid 2nd rounder and no where close to Trouba's level.
Justin Abdelkader mid 2nd rounder, etc.
Alex Goligoski late 2nd round, etc.
Jason Gregoire 3rd round, three years.
Matt Greene 2nd round and 3 years.
Ryan Whitney 5th round, etc.
Mark Stuart... no comment...
Matt Carle 2nd rounder 3 years.


Only good comparisons:
Ryan McDonagh is actually the best comparison. 12th pick overall 2way Dman who plays with an edge, but also did not finish school and skipped his senior year to play a season split between AHL and NHL. I can see this being likely Trouba with 2-3 years of NCAA and depending on depth will start in the AHL or NHL but end in the NHL.
Chris Kreider 19th overall pick who left after his 3rd year to play in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
Kevin Shattenkirk 14th overall and signed after 3rd year.


Last edited by garret9: 12-30-2012 at 06:07 PM.
garret9 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 06:03 PM
  #622
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,709
vCash: 50
Paradise hope you're not actually leaving this forum over this :S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
A breath of fresh air. I rarely see this type of thinking in this forum. Good for you TheBunk for having an opinion of your own and standing by it
There have been some many very strong opinions and polarizing ideas on this bored so I wouldn't agree with that at all (which is an opinion of my own ):
Byfuglien offense outweighing (pun) his gaffs or not
Enstrom size being a liability
Wheeler's bad start being him or not
Burmistrov AHL issue with scoring
Ladd's late penalties
Antropov being "useless" vs Wellwood who is amazing... even though they score the exact same rates
Hainsey being overpaid
The large clutch argument
GST being good or useless
Stuart being good or useless
Pavelec having a poor year or being the defence fault

All of these have been opinions that have split people.
Also, just because multiple people have the same opinion doesn't mean it's not their own. Specially when some of these are things where there is a right or wrong answer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I do respect it, but respect is a two way street. I'll take your advice and not post in this forum anymore.
Interesting how this conflicts with your comment above?
I've seen recognition here (and elsewhere by regular posters here) of non-Jets' property so I'm not sure where the conflict is anyways... :S

garret9 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 06:29 PM
  #623
scelaton
Registered User
 
scelaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Trouba might play one more year of college tops. Playing all four years is almost unheard of for top prospects. Even Jack Johnson, who refused Carolina's requests to come to the NHL twice, only stayed two years. In the last 10 years I can't recall any top prospects off the top of my head that graduated college. Blake Wheeler played three years, that's as far as I can recall anyone going.

It's just not going to happen.
I suspect you are right and thought I had heard it that he had committed to play a minimum of only 2 years at Michigan. In any event, I would be very surprised if he spent more than that.
FWIW, speaking as a college grad myself, with 2 sons at University, if Jacob Trouba were my son, I would tell him to get to the NHL earlier rather than later, unless he was a true academic (the rare high level athlete-scholar who excels in, eg, pre-med, engineering). For most elite athletes, a University undergrad education is highly over-rated, as they are mostly focused on their training, not on learning.

One more thing about his developmental requirements while I'm at it...this kid is already scary good. He is way ahead of where Scheifele was last year at the WJC and they are going nuts over him on the main boards. If we are to have a franchise player, I am putting my money on Trouba. It's early, but I am really pumped about this kid.

scelaton is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 06:32 PM
  #624
Duir
Registered Bunk
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 687
vCash: 500
Actually, garret, my point was it took me all of ten minutes to find 26 players who played three or more years at a post-secondary institution. And yes, I know not all of them finished but many did. The point is a lot of players will follow through on their eduction and my guess is Trouba will.

By down-playing many members of that list you are not doing them any justice at all. Just because someone was a late rounder doesn't make them a top prospect. I can remember just after the likes of Zetterberg and Lundqist got drafted (and both late) and were on the radar for high end talent within the year. What you are arguing is the learning arch for each player compared to Trouba's projection. What I am arguing is that there are many players do opt to stay in post-secondary to secure an end-game after hockey.

Duir is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 06:33 PM
  #625
allan5oh
#Dive4Five #31Buyout
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,407
vCash: 50
No kidding, do a search for Trouba, some are even saying he is the best D out of this years draft. Not just on the main boards either.

allan5oh is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.