HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

v24: Rudy Gay/Hamed Haddadi for Ed Davis/Jose Calderon swap imminent

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-30-2012, 01:03 AM
  #101
Kb21
Registered User
 
Kb21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
That's just it. His shot makes him so much more of a threat then Derozan. I think BC actually made a really good pick by taking Ross because he spreads the offense and really helps Derozan out on his game. And I can't begin to talk about how much having Ed Davis out there helps both of them.
the thing is i don't believe BC drafted him based upon his potential as a starting SG but instead as another guy nash could use so i myself wouldn't give any more credit then winning the lottery. BTW i really hope ross develops his own shot instead of being a pure spot up shooter because that would add a whole other dimension to him.

Quote:
I think his injury really screwed up his mechanics and rhythm. Also he had to learn his teammates all the while. This Landry was the Landry I was expecting at the beginning of the year. I still don't think he's worth 6.5 million a year but it's better than what we were getting.
well either he keeps playing like this or gets shipped out along with his PS vita.

Kb21 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 01:05 AM
  #102
Rielly Good
Registered User
 
Rielly Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kb21 View Post
the thing is i don't believe BC drafted him based upon his potential as a starting SG but instead as another guy nash could use so i myself wouldn't give any more credit then winning the lottery. BTW i really hope ross develops his own shot instead of being a pure spot up shooter because that would add a whole other dimension to him.



well either he keeps playing like this or gets shipped out along with his PS vita.
haha, I hate that commercial, when he gets all excited and jogs to the SUV. drives me nuts lol

Rielly Good is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 01:28 AM
  #103
Stats01
Registered User
 
Stats01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rielly Good View Post
Also if you don't know who Bonner is, don't google search it, you wont like wont what comes up lmao

just playing
If Bonner wasn't on a contender he would be a good fit with LA. But hey they can take our expensive crap.

Stats01 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 01:33 AM
  #104
Stats01
Registered User
 
Stats01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kb21 View Post
the thing is i don't believe BC drafted him based upon his potential as a starting SG but instead as another guy nash could use so i myself wouldn't give any more credit then winning the lottery. BTW i really hope ross develops his own shot instead of being a pure spot up shooter because that would add a whole other dimension to him.



well either he keeps playing like this or gets shipped out along with his PS vita.
Ross has a lot more game than just being a pure spot up shooter, right now it may look like it but just give him time. As he gets more time on the floor and more reps he'll learn just like DeRo that he has the quickness and skill to get by guys. He clearly has shown he has the confidence in his shot. I think over the next few years DeRo and Ross are going to be lethal, Ross is explosive when he gets to the rim. Once he develops his dribble more he is going to be crazy good. This guy could pull up anywhere on the floor and hit a jay, teach him how to get to the rim and he will be a multiple facet weapon

Stats01 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 02:02 AM
  #105
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,569
vCash: 500
So what is Derozan?

The 30pt guy tha catches my eyence a week or so or is he the guy I don't notice?

Full Discolure: Haven't really cared since Bosh pulled his ****. Carter was a huge strike 1 and Bosh was brutal. Watching McGrady hurt too. (Watched his score 13pts in 30sec to FINISH a game) This team should have 1 or 3 championships and we got nothing.

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 02:39 AM
  #106
Stats01
Registered User
 
Stats01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
So what is Derozan?

The 30pt guy tha catches my eyence a week or so or is he the guy I don't notice?

Full Discolure: Haven't really cared since Bosh pulled his ****. Carter was a huge strike 1 and Bosh was brutal. Watching McGrady hurt too. (Watched his score 13pts in 30sec to FINISH a game) This team should have 1 or 3 championships and we got nothing.
IMO DeRozan will be a 25-30 pt guy who will be able to get into the lane continually when he has to and make plays for our perimeter guys. Losing McGrady should not be put on us because right from the get go he wanted to go on his own, whether we should've traded him for more, thats up for discussion we got a first round pick and that is that. Anyway DeRozan is going to be a star, he has the quickness and the shot to dictate the play, he's finally gotten to the level where he sees everything and can slow the play down for himself and make the right play, he may not go nuts on the scoreboard every night but he will put up good numbers. Crazy enough...I still think he can get better. His jump shot shot has improved tremendously.

Stats01 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:03 AM
  #107
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,695
vCash: 350
25-30 point guy is pushing it. If he does not develop a long range shot or get to the line at a more frequent rate then he'd max out at 20 a game on average.

Eyedea is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:17 AM
  #108
Stats01
Registered User
 
Stats01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
25-30 point guy is pushing it. If he does not develop a long range shot or get to the line at a more frequent rate then he'd max out at 20 a game on average.
I'd take a bet with you. He's already averaging close to 20 a game. He already has his mid range shot, he's only 23. He can easily average 25-30 a game if he wanted to right now. How can he max out when he's still improving? You're saying he's going to max out at 20 per game for the rest of his career. You've already lost. He gets to the line a lot more, he drives with more purpose, he knows when to pull up for a shot. DeRozan can shoot 20 in his sleep

Stats01 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:26 AM
  #109
JMcLeaf
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
JMcLeaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: ♫d(-_-)b♫
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 17,485
vCash: 500
Id be surprised if DeMar became a 25-30 pt guy. Currently only 5 players are averaging above 25 pts. Last season only 4 players did. 7 the year before that. I don't think DeMar will be consistent enough to be in that group. He'd have to really improve his long-range game.

JMcLeaf is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:46 AM
  #110
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,695
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
I'd take a bet with you. He's already averaging close to 20 a game. He already has his mid range shot, he's only 23. He can easily average 25-30 a game if he wanted to right now. How can he max out when he's still improving? You're saying he's going to max out at 20 per game for the rest of his career. You've already lost. He gets to the line a lot more, he drives with more purpose, he knows when to pull up for a shot. DeRozan can shoot 20 in his sleep
How have I already lost when he has yet to do what I've said? So he's averaging 5 free throws a game, as opposed to Harden who has 10. That is 4-5 extra points on average. I know he drives, I've seen him play. He has improved his midrange jumper, but he still has no perimeter shot, and it'd be hard for you to prove that he can suddenly improve in that facet of the game.

Age doesn't have much to do with it either. He can be in the prime of his life and average 15 a game, it depends how he's being utilized and who else is on the floor. Other guys (Ross, Val, Davis, Lowry) are threats and options on the offence too, it's not like they're going to just keep feeding the ball to DeRozan and let him shoot, he's not a Durant.

And before you bring up refs, that's also part of the problem.

Eyedea is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 08:16 AM
  #111
donkeyy0
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
How have I already lost when he has yet to do what I've said? So he's averaging 5 free throws a game, as opposed to Harden who has 10. That is 4-5 extra points on average. I know he drives, I've seen him play. He has improved his midrange jumper, but he still has no perimeter shot, and it'd be hard for you to prove that he can suddenly improve in that facet of the game.

Age doesn't have much to do with it either. He can be in the prime of his life and average 15 a game, it depends how he's being utilized and who else is on the floor. Other guys (Ross, Val, Davis, Lowry) are threats and options on the offence too, it's not like they're going to just keep feeding the ball to DeRozan and let him shoot, he's not a Durant.

And before you bring up refs, that's also part of the problem.
Well...there you have it.

DeRozan gets some respect from the refs and he can average 25 a game. If he doesn't, he'll just get hacked till he gets fed up (a la dunk contest) and stops driving. Then he becomes an awesomely inefficient shooter who doesn't have enough range.

I sometimes get the vibe that he gets frustrated when calls don't go his way (maybe it's just me getting frustrated and yelling at the tv and trying to put that on him). There was a kid who I used to play ball with who had the same mentality. It was if calls don't go my way, if you don't pass me the ball, then I'm taking my ball and going home. Obviously I don't think it's that extreme with Demar, but at the same time...it can't be easy to just continuously get hacked and have nothing to show for it. I've gotta think that at SOME point the refs have to start giving him some respect. He's not a rook anymore, give him the calls he deserves.

I don't think he needs a 3 to put up 25pts a night.

donkeyy0 is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 10:33 AM
  #112
Clark4Ever
Registered User
 
Clark4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: T.O.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,257
vCash: 500
I think it's safe to assume that this run in the absence of Bargnani is no coincidence or fluke. It's only a matter of time before he is parlayed into other assets.

The most encouraging sign as of late is that our young core has collectively had the biggest impact on the court contributing to the recent success.

If this keeps up, I just might fall in love with this team again for the first time in many years.

Clark4Ever is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 11:08 AM
  #113
Tony Clifton Leaf
A Mouthful
 
Tony Clifton Leaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,263
vCash: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark4Ever View Post
I think it's safe to assume that this run in the absence of Bargnani is no coincidence or fluke. It's only a matter of time before he is parlayed into other assets.

The most encouraging sign as of late is that our young core has collectively had the biggest impact on the court contributing to the recent success.

If this keeps up, I just might fall in love with this team again for the first time in many years.
The core of this team moving forward is going to be Lowry, Ross, DD, JV, and Davis. I know very little about the NBA, but it's obvious Bargs does not fit here. What type of a return could we expect for him around the deadline?

Tony Clifton Leaf is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 11:15 AM
  #114
Hyperglide
Registered User
 
Hyperglide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,992
vCash: 500
lol @ thinking Derozan will be a 25-30 PPG scorer. I think he will be at most a 20-25 PPG but more around 21-22. He's a good player and a fringe all-star but scoring 25-30 is elite superstar level talent at that clip. Derozan will never be that type of player. I think he's got a Corey Magette type game to him. He can score in a myriad of ways and will finally start getting those FT calls like Magette got in his prime but Magette was never an all-star or go to player. Just a good 2nd or 3rd option on a decent - good team.

Hyperglide is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 11:18 AM
  #115
Hyperglide
Registered User
 
Hyperglide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark4Ever View Post
I think it's safe to assume that this run in the absence of Bargnani is no coincidence or fluke. It's only a matter of time before he is parlayed into other assets.

The most encouraging sign as of late is that our young core has collectively had the biggest impact on the court contributing to the recent success.

If this keeps up, I just might fall in love with this team again for the first time in many years.
Not to sound like a dick but you're just figuring this out now? It's pretty obvious the team quits when Bargnani is around. He's a cancer.

The problem is now, is that Bargs value has hit rock bottom and is so low that you'd probably get at most a late 1st for him. It's better to try and package him with another player with value, or an expiring, or hope he comes back and has another fabled 11 game streak and trade him before the deadline to a fringe playoff team that's desperate and get some expirings or picks for him. Otherwise, he's just amnesty fodder.

Hyperglide is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 12:08 PM
  #116
Clark4Ever
Registered User
 
Clark4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: T.O.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,257
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
Not to sound like a dick but you're just figuring this out now? It's pretty obvious the team quits when Bargnani is around. He's a cancer.

The problem is now, is that Bargs value has hit rock bottom and is so low that you'd probably get at most a late 1st for him. It's better to try and package him with another player with value, or an expiring, or hope he comes back and has another fabled 11 game streak and trade him before the deadline to a fringe playoff team that's desperate and get some expirings or picks for him. Otherwise, he's just amnesty fodder.
I suspected that Bargs was costing the team points for a long while because of his lackluster play, as many observers have. My point is that in light of the drastic change in the team's fortunes recently, his detrimental effect on his teammates is undeniable, even by his most ardent supporter in Bryan Colangelo. This is the first time that the rumblings of his imminent departure might actually be valid, and that is good news for Raps fans moving forward.

As for possible returns for Bargs, I'd gladly take my chances with Demarcus Cousins.

Clark4Ever is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 12:33 PM
  #117
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark4Ever View Post
I suspected that Bargs was costing the team points for a long while because of his lackluster play, as many observers have. My point is that in light of the drastic change in the team's fortunes recently, his detrimental effect on his teammates is undeniable, even by his most ardent supporter in Bryan Colangelo. This is the first time that the rumblings of his imminent departure might actually be valid, and that is good news for Raps fans moving forward.

As for possible returns for Bargs, I'd gladly take my chances with Demarcus Cousins.
yeah, trade one cancer for another. That'll work. Only difference is that instead of a passive, disinterested, perimeter player cancer you get a moody, immature interior player cancer.

__________________

"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."

Sorry, I am not taking signature requests at this time.
The Nemesis is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 12:42 PM
  #118
Clark4Ever
Registered User
 
Clark4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: T.O.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,257
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
yeah, trade one cancer for another. That'll work. Only difference is that instead of a passive, disinterested, perimeter player cancer you get a moody, immature interior player cancer.
A change of scenery can do wonders for a disgruntled player's career. It's been proven time and time again in the NBA. There are no guarantees of course, but I would take that risk in a heartbeat for a raw talent like Cousins considering how much Bargs' stock has fallen.

Clark4Ever is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 12:51 PM
  #119
Kulemon
Registered User
 
Kulemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
I don't think Cousins is the answer here. The team seems to be gelling well now and Cousins could ruin it all.

But his talent is really tempting. He's just a total beast. He could be dominant for us.

Kulemon is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 01:02 PM
  #120
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark4Ever View Post
A change of scenery can do wonders for a disgruntled player's career. It's been proven time and time again in the NBA. There are no guarantees of course, but I would take that risk in a heartbeat for a raw talent like Cousins considering how much Bargs' stock has fallen.
really? Give me some examples.

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 01:05 PM
  #121
Tony Clifton Leaf
A Mouthful
 
Tony Clifton Leaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,263
vCash: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
I don't think Cousins is the answer here. The team seems to be gelling well now and Cousins could ruin it all.

But his talent is really tempting. He's just a total beast. He could be dominant for us.
The best possible scenario with our team right now is we keep this play up, squeak into the 7th or 8th seed and get knocked out in the first round. That's not much to "ruin".

Tony Clifton Leaf is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 01:13 PM
  #122
Kulemon
Registered User
 
Kulemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobloblawLeaf View Post
The best possible scenario with our team right now is we keep this play up, squeak into the 7th or 8th seed and get knocked out in the first round. That's not much to "ruin".
So you think it's worth the risk?

I just think the kid has issues. I don't think a change of scenery could completely change his character.

Kulemon is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 03:54 PM
  #123
Eytinge
Registered User
 
Eytinge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
lol @ thinking Derozan will be a 25-30 PPG scorer. I think he will be at most a 20-25 PPG but more around 21-22. He's a good player and a fringe all-star but scoring 25-30 is elite superstar level talent at that clip. Derozan will never be that type of player. I think he's got a Corey Magette type game to him. He can score in a myriad of ways and will finally start getting those FT calls like Magette got in his prime but Magette was never an all-star or go to player. Just a good 2nd or 3rd option on a decent - good team.
Yeah demar won't ever be a 25 ppg guy, that's just being crazy optimistic. I think on a good team he's an 17-20 ppg kinda guy. On a lottery team he can maybe get up to around 23 ppg but lack of an outside shot will hinder him. 25+ ppg guys are the superstars in the league and I don't think demar is even a legit allstar.

As for cousins, he needs a veteran team with leaders like boston, but im a fan if his. If bargs could get him straight up id do it but Sacramento would say no.

Eytinge is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 04:09 PM
  #124
Shimso
Registered User
 
Shimso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
Id be surprised if DeMar became a 25-30 pt guy. Currently only 5 players are averaging above 25 pts. Last season only 4 players did. 7 the year before that. I don't think DeMar will be consistent enough to be in that group. He'd have to really improve his long-range game.
Yeah, the only 25+ guys are Lebron (25.9), Harden (26), Durant (28.4), Melo (28.5), Kobe (30.1).

I can see DD getting to 20+ (especially if the refs start to open their eyes when he gets fouled) but I wouldn't go much further than that.

Shimso is offline  
Old
12-30-2012, 04:44 PM
  #125
Brody
$$
 
Brody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Paris
Posts: 7,512
vCash: 560
Cousins really intrigues me, the talent is ridiculous.. Just the attitude, he reminds me of like Radulov. Both very talented players who have proved they can play in the league, just don't have the personality of team players and are not very likeable individuals. Another thing about Cousins is how young is, he's only 22 and would become a core player within this young group. I haven't seen a whole lot of Cousins (when I saw him, he was a beast) but can he play PF? I think Valanciunas is this team's C to build around.

Brody is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.