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Old
12-30-2012, 05:59 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Lol I love how you quietly tried to sneak Lundqvist into that category of elite players. FUNNY.
Dude, I'm not a Rangers fan, I'm a Sens fan, but without Lundqvist last year, the Rangers would have been golfing after the first round. Lundqvist is as elite as it gets for goalies. Just because he's not in his early 20s does not make him any less elite. The only goalie in the league I might take over Lundqvist, and its arguable, is Price, and that is because of age, not talent (they are pretty equivalent goalies IMO). I don't think I'd even take Rinne over Lundqvist.

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12-30-2012, 06:00 PM
  #52
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NYI will try as hard as possible to keep Tavares a islander for life.

1st round pick and Zibanejad are a mystery, Cowen is a great piece, and you can get a poor man's Michalek type of player during free agency. The value is a bit more than 4 1st rounders, I guess Ottawa would be better off with an offer sheet, but NYI would laugh and match any price as he's the only marketable player they have.

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:01 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
OK.

let's say the goalie is Lehner.

Lehner is beast. Future top 5/10 goalie in the world potential. And I'd say sure-fire #1 goalie.

Cowen is a future top pair D-man. Beast as well.

Michalek is a 35 goal winger. Pretty good.

Ziabnejad is a future top six power forward. Probably not sure-fire, but he's a sure-fire NHLer.

1st rounder in a very very deep 2013 draft, will be a good player.

for

a 90+ point centre.

I dunno, seems like a lot of good pieces. Not saying you should do it at all, just proposing it.
Except the Sens HAVE Spezza... and Turris as the now and future 2nd line centre who had an excellent season. Any team could use Tavares obviously... but with Spezza and Turris... trading Cowen who is a great future defenceman, in a spot the Sens desperately need.... and tons of depth and futures for Tavares does not really make sense. The Sens would have 5 or 6 NHL centres and lack wingers and defencemen.

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12-30-2012, 06:01 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Karlsson is great offensively but, he is very ordinary defensively, as a defenseman I think that's a big void.

Mike Green already had 2 season of 70 pts, do you value him better than Tavares ?
Completely wrong. He's good (not superb) defensively, and when he does make a mistake, has the speed to quickly negate it. Just out of curiosity (sincere question here), how many games of his have you seen in the last 3 years? Myself, I've probably seen well over 200, not even including preseason and playoffs.

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12-30-2012, 06:03 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Dude, I'm not a Rangers fan, I'm a Sens fan, but without Lundqvist last year, the Rangers would have been golfing after the first round. Lundqvist is as elite as it gets for goalies. Just because he's not in his early 20s does not make him any less elite. The only goalie in the league I might take over Lundqvist, and its arguable, is Price, and that is because of age, not talent (they are pretty equivalent goalies IMO). I don't think I'd even take Rinne over Lundqvist.
I totally agree with that but Tavares is young.

the islanders will have a great team in few years, they just need a good goalie and 1 or 2 good Dman

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12-30-2012, 06:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Completely wrong. He's good (not superb) defensively, and when he does make a mistake, has the speed to quickly negate it. Just out of curiosity (sincere question here), how many games of his have you seen in the last 3 years? Myself, I've probably seen well over 200, not even including preseason and playoffs.
I'm from montreal so ive seen a lot of sens games

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12-30-2012, 06:05 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Michalek
Cowen
Zibanejad
2013 1st

for

Tavares




Sens can throw in a goalie if you want
Oh joy. A new ' You NYI fans, are overrating Tavares' thread.

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:08 PM
  #58
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I didn't say he was bad i said he was ordinary. he's not very physical and his offensive thinking put him in bad situations sometime.

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12-30-2012, 06:08 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Dude, I'm not a Rangers fan, I'm a Sens fan, but without Lundqvist last year, the Rangers would have been golfing after the first round. Lundqvist is as elite as it gets for goalies. Just because he's not in his early 20s does not make him any less elite. The only goalie in the league I might take over Lundqvist, and its arguable, is Price, and that is because of age, not talent (they are pretty equivalent goalies IMO). I don't think I'd even take Rinne over Lundqvist.
Anderson was amazing in the series vs the Rangers as well. Which is the point. Lundqvist is among the very, very best goalies in the NHL. But the difference between top 3 and say 15th or 20th in Anderson is not really that large for goalies.

I think the idea of trading Tavares is asinine. But just saying I think he has a lot more value then any current goalie does. There are more goalies available that can play close to Lundqvist's level then there are Centres that are at Tavares level.

It is funny as an Ottawa fan because we waited sooooo long to have a true #1 like Anderson... now we have Lehner who looks like he can be a #1 too. Goalies are such a crap shoot... and having a consistently great one like Lundqvist is amazing. But he is still more replaceable. He is not Hasek in his prime or something.

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:14 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
I didn't say he was bad i said he was ordinary. he's not very physical and his offensive thinking put him in bad situations sometime.
Sure he's not physical, he plays with skill and smarts on defense, again not physical in the general sense, but the 2nd part is untrue. You can count the times he put himself in bad situations on your hand and with his speed those mistakes are nullified.

Embed this in your mind, it's EK doing the cleanup:

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12-30-2012, 06:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
I didn't say he was bad i said he was ordinary. he's not very physical and his offensive thinking put him in bad situations sometime.
From my limited viewing he is borderline good but nothing great. As somebody else pointed out his speed helps him alot to cover mistakes. Personally I think the best skill though Karlson impresses me with(more then points since that can be the product of his team) is his ability to get the puck out of his own zone whether it be passing it or carrying it out himself in heavy traffic.

All that being said I can't wait to see how he does this season when teams develop gameplan around him. I am guessing his states drop a bit(although not to the degree of Green) but he becomes a consistent 60+ point guy

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12-30-2012, 06:23 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
From my limited viewing he is borderline good but nothing great. As somebody else pointed out his speed helps him alot to cover mistakes. Personally I think the best skill though Karlson impresses me with(more then points since that can be the product of his team) is his ability to get the puck out of his own zone whether it be passing it or carrying it out himself in heavy traffic.

All that being said I can't wait to see how he does this season when teams develop gameplan around him. I am guessing his states drop a bit(although not to the degree of Green) but he becomes a consistent 60+ point guy
I agree with that, but bordeline good and ordinary sounds similar to my ears

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:24 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
From my limited viewing he is borderline good but nothing great. As somebody else pointed out his speed helps him alot to cover mistakes. Personally I think the best skill though Karlson impresses me with(more then points since that can be the product of his team) is his ability to get the puck out of his own zone whether it be passing it or carrying it out himself in heavy traffic.

All that being said I can't wait to see how he does this season when teams develop gameplan around him. I am guessing his states drop a bit(although not to the degree of Green) but he becomes a consistent 60+ point guy
Teams have been game planning around him for longer than just last season. Nothing about Karlsson is "borderline" good. He is amazing at stealing pucks and breaking up plays.

I honestly think his stats will get better next season and in the future. He had a GREAT season, but I think he is not near his potential offensively.... or defensively. I think he is fully capable of being a top 10 or even top 5 scorer in the entire NHL for the next decade.

He is so smooth and so confident and he rarely forces plays. He is just such a natural. I have never seen anything like him. He is unique but in 10 or 15 years people will talk about him like they do MacInnis and Coffey and Bourque.

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12-30-2012, 06:24 PM
  #64
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Haha. No, the Isles will never trade Tavares. If they would, the Sens needs to offer Karlsson+.

... and Zibanejad is a bust. Omark2.

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12-30-2012, 06:28 PM
  #65
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Three questions;

What is going on with de Haan? (health wise)

Where does he rank in terms of depth?

What would you want for him?

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12-30-2012, 06:29 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderson View Post
Haha. No, the Isles will never trade Tavares. If they would, the Sens needs to offer Karlsson+.

... and Zibanejad is a bust. Omark2.
1, you are a funny guy.

2, only sens fans get to call Zibby a bust. tyvm.

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12-30-2012, 06:30 PM
  #67
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[QUOTE=Chacal667;56938457]Karlsson is great offensively but, he is very ordinary defensively, as a defenseman I think that's a big void.

Mike Green already had 2 season of 70 pts, do you value him better than Tavares ?[/QUOTE]

Damn you beat me too it!

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
1, you are a funny guy.

2, only sens fans get to call Zibby a bust. tyvm.
why they didn't draft Couturier........

well I say this but I didn't follow Zibby so I don't really know

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12-30-2012, 06:34 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
What is going on with de Haan? (health wise)
Injured for the season, sadly it looks like the guy has glass ankles. I know when history evaluates the 2009 draft the Islanders will get racked through the coals for that pick, but it's hard predicting how injury prone somebody will be.

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Where does he rank in terms of depth?
When you factor in he is injury prone I would put him 3rd behind Reinhart and Donovan, if he wasn't so injury prone I would put him 2nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
What would you want for him?
At this point I don't think he has much value due to injury history, but I would be open to trading him for a late first(like 25-30 range) and take my chances with a less injured player

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12-30-2012, 06:43 PM
  #70
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Quote:
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1, you are a funny guy.

2, only sens fans get to call Zibby a bust. tyvm.
1; Nah, if you want Tavares you got to pay a huge overprice. And it will start with Karlsson.

2; Only NYI fans are allowed to create Tavares proposals. 'startainfection' not included.

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12-30-2012, 06:44 PM
  #71
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guys we talk for nothing both karlsson and tavares will never get traded.

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12-30-2012, 06:47 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
I'm from montreal so ive seen a lot of sens games
All due respect, but care to put a number on it? Because I'm sure its a far cry from way over 200 that I've seen (and not saying that you said this, but highlights on Sportscentre don't count, I'm talking full games here).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Anderson was amazing in the series vs the Rangers as well. Which is the point. Lundqvist is among the very, very best goalies in the NHL. But the difference between top 3 and say 15th or 20th in Anderson is not really that large for goalies.

I think the idea of trading Tavares is asinine. But just saying I think he has a lot more value then any current goalie does. There are more goalies available that can play close to Lundqvist's level then there are Centres that are at Tavares level.

It is funny as an Ottawa fan because we waited sooooo long to have a true #1 like Anderson... now we have Lehner who looks like he can be a #1 too. Goalies are such a crap shoot... and having a consistently great one like Lundqvist is amazing. But he is still more replaceable. He is not Hasek in his prime or something.
I agree with all this, and that's really what I was saying, is that the whole Sens team, Anderson included, played so well, that if Henrik hadn't played out of his mind, the series would have ended very differently.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
From my limited viewing he is borderline good but nothing great. As somebody else pointed out his speed helps him alot to cover mistakes. Personally I think the best skill though Karlson impresses me with(more then points since that can be the product of his team) is his ability to get the puck out of his own zone whether it be passing it or carrying it out himself in heavy traffic.

All that being said I can't wait to see how he does this season when teams develop gameplan around him. I am guessing his states drop a bit(although not to the degree of Green) but he becomes a consistent 60+ point guy
I agree with a lot of this, I would say he becomes a regular 60 - 70 point guy, something not many Dmen do even once. However, bear in mind as the team around him gets better and better, so will his numbers, which is a pretty scary thought for the rest of the league. Also, he will only be 21 or 22 the next time he suits up for an NHL game, and he will only get even better (again, scary thought for any NHL fan of the other 29 teams).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderson View Post
Haha. No, the Isles will never trade Tavares. If they would, the Sens needs to offer Karlsson+.

... and Zibanejad is a bust. Omark2.
I love JT, I really do, but in the incredibly unlikely even that these 2 are ever traded, let alone for each other, the Sens aren't adding a thing to EK for JT, unless its a salary dump.

As for Zibanejad (props for being one of the few to actually spell his name right, btw), based on what are you calling him a bust? 9 NHL games? The fact that he's not tearing up the AHL as a 19 year old? How about we let him, you know, make it out of his teens before calling him a bust? kthxbye.

[QUOTE=Habs4TheCup;56939487]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Karlsson is great offensively but, he is very ordinary defensively, as a defenseman I think that's a big void.

Mike Green already had 2 season of 70 pts, do you value him better than Tavares ?[/QUOTE]

Try watching 200+ games of Karlsson as I have before you spout the grossly inaccurate stereotype that he's bad/ordinary defensively. People that don't watch him see all those points, and the fact that he's only 21, and assume that he's bad defensively, a link I have yet to be able to understand. Remember, defensemen that are bad/ordinary defensively don't win the premier award for a Dman, the Norris. Which, by the way, is voted on by people that know a lot more about hockey and watch a lot more of it than any of us here.

Damn you beat me too it!
Mike Green had the likes of OV, Semin, etc around him. Karlsson has Spezza and not much else, certainly not an Ovechkin.

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:53 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Karlsson is great offensively but, he is very ordinary defensively, as a defenseman I think that's a big void.

Mike Green already had 2 season of 70 pts, do you value him better than Tavares ?
Karlsson's poke check and speed is far from ordinary. See below for Green comment.

Quote:
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I think the big question for Karlson can he kept that level of consistency in terms of his offensive game or not or will he turn out more like Mike Green who had 2 great offensive seasons on a team that was stacked offensively but then sort of come down to reality when the team stopped scoring.
Green would be putting up similar points if it were not for injuries and lesser offensive system.
Quote:
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All that being said I can't wait to see how he does this season when teams develop gameplan around him. I am guessing his states drop a bit(although not to the degree of Green) but he becomes a consistent 60+ point guy
Why would teams wait to start defending Karlsson?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderson View Post
Haha. No, the Isles will never trade Tavares. If they would, the Sens needs to offer Karlsson+.

... and Zibanejad is a bust. Omark2.
From a sens point of view its Tavares+ for Karlsson.

Zibanejad would have made the NHL last season if it were up to Maclean. Byran Murray decided to send him to sweden so he could get more offensive minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
why they didn't draft Couturier........

well I say this but I didn't follow Zibby so I don't really know
Ill take the player that projects to be the better player over time than right away.

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:54 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Michalek
Cowen
Zibanejad
2013 1st

for

Tavares




Sens can throw in a goalie if you want
No shot. Apparently you don't always know

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:56 PM
  #75
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do you know tvasport ? they had a contract last season with the sens to present the games in french, and I didn't say Karlsson was bad/ordinary, I said he was borderline good ( defensively ), and Spezza is a really great player, that helped a lot to put some points but I have to admit that 70 pts for a dman is a lot and I said he is great offensively. Dont get me wrong Karlsson is a great Dman but I value tavares more.

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