Teams can make trades, the bottom line is that often teams are mismanaged and we just expect players to fall into line.
I made the observation that most posters who think that players should just fall into line wouldn't want a "draft and tell you where you will ply your trade from 16-20" before you are "drafted" into your adult job.
Remember Slavery?
I don't know what you do for a living but how would you like to be treated that way?
Jeez, something tells me that isn't quite an appropriate comparison.
The draft is necessary to keep some semblance of competitive balance, and that's kind of an important thing to have if you want to maintain a successful league. It may not work perfectly in the CHL, but it's better than the alternative.
It was more of a style comparison. And don't tell me you think Edmonton is a worse franchise than PG. Good franchises can have bad teams.
Nobody was calling Edmonton a good franchise during St Croix's early years. Still dont agree with the comparison. St Croix gives 100% every shift, is a better skater and has better offensive skills/hockey sense than Forsberg. Forsberg has a tendency to be lazy and he doesnt have the skating/skills that St Croix has. The only similarities would be they are both smallish/skill players.
Teams can make trades, the bottom line is that often teams are mismanaged and we just expect players to fall into line.
I made the observation that most posters who think that players should just fall into line wouldn't want a "draft and tell you where you will ply your trade from 16-20" before you are "drafted" into your adult job.
Remember Slavery?
I don't know what you do for a living but how would you like to be treated that way?
Does Forsberg have the option to seek out and play for a different team in a different league? Please dont insult people by comparing a junior hockey player to slaves, who were hunted down with dogs and killed or maimed in horrific fashion for leaving their masters.
Ridiculous analogy is embarrassing.
So make trades? Trade what for what exactly? Trade your poor vets for more poor vets? Teams that are snubbed by top talent are usually poor to begin with, and if they cant build through the draft, then how are you supposed to get better?
Are the other gm's around the league morons prone to making poor deals? They are going to take your garbage in return for gems?
Fact is PG is the least desirable location in the entire league to play. Worst travel, small, stinky town with multiple pulp mills isolated way up north with no other big city for hundreds of miles in every direction.
Your understanding of the situation is lacking. Big time.
Jeez, something tells me that isn't quite an appropriate comparison.
The draft is necessary to keep some semblance of competitive balance, and that's kind of an important thing to have if you want to maintain a successful league. It may not work perfectly in the CHL, but it's better than the alternative.
Yes it was a dramatic and perhaps exaggerated word but if you read the description of what happens to drafted players (and if the "well let him rot if a player wants to be traded).
The bottom line is that total control of where players play isn't a good thing for the players always.
Like it has been mentioned nobody is knocking Nathan for it.
Does Forsberg have the option to seek out and play for a different team in a different league? Please dont insult people by comparing a junior hockey player to slaves, who were hunted down with dogs and killed or maimed in horrific fashion for leaving their masters.
Ridiculous analogy is embarrassing.
So make trades? Trade what for what exactly? Trade your poor vets for more poor vets? Teams that are snubbed by top talent are usually poor to begin with, and if they cant build through the draft, then how are you supposed to get better?
Are the other gm's around the league morons prone to making poor deals? They are going to take your garbage in return for gems?
Fact is PG is the least desirable location in the entire league to play. Worst travel, small, stinky town with multiple pulp mills isolated way up north with no other big city for hundreds of miles in every direction.
Your understanding of the situation is lacking. Big time.
I haven't seen many players switch leagues in the CHL, not sure if there is a rule against it or if it's an under the table type of thing.
sure slavery is a strong word but the situation is closer to that in principle than a free market so skip the personal comments.
Like I asked before how would you feel if you had been drafted and sent to anywhere in your profession at the age of 15?
I fully understand the situation as well, for the longest time players have been bullied by comments and feelings like yours to play anywhere, now that some are choosing more control over their life there is a backlash.
Prince George can easily trade him for decent value and then go ahead and make the situation in PG better for players to coem there.
It's not exactly a whose who list of recent drafted players in PG from the NHL is there?
PG is probably the worst place for one to play junior hockey in the CHL. It's been a losing environment for over five years now and I remember Charles Inglis said something along the lines of management treating the players poorly. We should keep in mind that both Forsberg brothers came into the WHL as very good 16-year-olds and their games deteriorated as their careers with PG progressed. One should also note that Jesse Forsberg has played much better ever since he was traded out of PG so perhaps the problem is with the organization and not with Alex Forsberg himself.
Haha, Inglis hey, problem is Cougars managment wouldnt let him smoke pot out front of a local restaurant, go figure...
guarenteed he gets dealt to Seattle and is reunited with his brother. Seattle has NO good 17 year old forwards in their system playing. They do have an abundance of 17 year old dmen on their team tho(5 of them)
He better hope its not to Seattle. They are just a bad team and I dont see too bright of a future there unless those new players tey got woihin the last month or whatever are really good. That would hurt his numbers just as much as his current team. They do need some talented offensive players because they can hardly get the puck out of their zone whenever Ive went to see them.
He better hope its not to Seattle. They are just a bad team and I dont see too bright of a future there unless those new players tey got woihin the last month or whatever are really good. That would hurt his numbers just as much as his current team. They do need some talented offensive players because they can hardly get the puck out of their zone whenever Ive went to see them.
Seattle has Barazal and the penticon kid as well.
Getting Forsberg for one of their Dmen would help their future bigtime.
I haven't seen many players switch leagues in the CHL, not sure if there is a rule against it or if it's an under the table type of thing.
sure slavery is a strong word but the situation is closer to that in principle than a free market so skip the personal comments.
Like I asked before how would you feel if you had been drafted and sent to anywhere in your profession at the age of 15?
I fully understand the situation as well, for the longest time players have been bullied by comments and feelings like yours to play anywhere, now that some are choosing more control over their life there is a backlash.
Prince George can easily trade him for decent value and then go ahead and make the situation in PG better for players to coem there.
It's not exactly a whose who list of recent drafted players in PG from the NHL is there?
He is already playing in the SJHL. That is what I meant by other leagues, which he is free to do. Unlike slaves, but really there is no reasoning with you, so carry on with the nonsense.
I will leave you with the following list of Prince George alumni..........
Blair Betts
Alexandre Boikov
Derek Boogaard
Tyler Bouck
Eric Brewer
Dustin Byfuglien
Zdeno Chara
Brett Connolly
Nick Drazenovic
Jonathan Filewich
Kyle Freadrich
Dan Hamhuis
Trent Hunter
David Koci
Joel Kwiatkowski
Mike Leclerc
Chris Mason
Vladimir Mihalik
Ronald Petrovicky
Justin Pogge
Devin Setoguchi
Sheldon Souray
Dana Tyrell
Alexander Vasilevski
Michael Wall
Ty Wishart
Charles Inglis is a donkey who has bounced around the WHL and currently finds himself without a team, despite being sent home as Red Deer's leading scorer at the time. You do the math.
You want me to do the math? Well, how about the fact that Inglis was on FOUR different teams throughout his junior career and he chose to call out PG out of those four teams once his career was all over. He even admitted that his time at Saskatoon (which was his longest stint of the four) was more his fault than management's fault. So it's not like he was calling out every team that traded or released him.
You want me to do the math? Well, how about the fact that Inglis was on FOUR different teams throughout his junior career and he chose to call out PG out of those four teams once his career was all over. He even admitted that his time at Saskatoon (which was his longest stint of the four) was more his fault than management's fault. So it's not like he was calling out every team that traded or released him.
Ill take the word of Brent Sutter over Charles Inglis.
He is already playing in the SJHL. That is what I meant by other leagues, which he is free to do. Unlike slaves, but really there is no reasoning with you, so carry on with the nonsense.
I will leave you with the following list of Prince George alumni..........
Blair Betts
Alexandre Boikov
Derek Boogaard
Tyler Bouck
Eric Brewer
Dustin Byfuglien
Zdeno Chara
Brett Connolly
Nick Drazenovic
Jonathan Filewich
Kyle Freadrich
Dan Hamhuis
Trent Hunter
David Koci
Joel Kwiatkowski
Mike Leclerc
Chris Mason
Vladimir Mihalik
Ronald Petrovicky
Justin Pogge
Devin Setoguchi
Sheldon Souray
Dana Tyrell
Alexander Vasilevski
Michael Wall
Ty Wishart
Seriously how many of those guys were drafted and started as Prince George guys, a couple off the top of my head played their final WHL season with them after they had been drafted.
Looks like alot of guys, for well over a decade though it's not very good and actually quite poor IMO.
The current regime is the one in question though. Connolly is the exception here and some might even question how far his development is compared to talent.
You also still haven't answered my question, how would you feel being drafted (in whatever your career is) and told you have to go somewhere to learn it?
Seriously how many of those guys were drafted and started as Prince George guys, a couple off the top of my head played their final WHL season with them after they had been drafted.
Looks like alot of guys, for well over a decade though it's not very good and actually quite poor IMO.
The current regime is the one in question though. Connolly is the exception here and some might even question how far his development is compared to talent.
You also still haven't answered my question, how would you feel being drafted (in whatever your career is) and told you have to go somewhere to learn it?
My industry doesn't require parity among firms to survive, thus there is no reason for a draft.
However, the WHL needs a draft to disperse talent as fairly as possible. Ensuring competitive balance is crucial to the success of a sports league. They aren't using the draft just to **** with prospects.
My industry doesn't require parity among firms to survive, thus there is no reason for a draft.
However, the WHL needs a draft to disperse talent as fairly as possible. Ensuring competitive balance is crucial to the success of a sports league. They aren't using the draft just to **** with prospects.
I dunno about that logic and even if it were true it isn't achieving anywhere close to the desired results.
If the league wanted parity they would make trades for the teams to keep them competitive and balanced.
Teams are individual entities under an umbrella sure but even when they fail, ie go out of business or move does that affect the league that much?
The reason leagues have drafts is so that teams can have total control of a player and that the player doesn't have other legitimate options to play to pursue hockey at a higher level.
The history or organized professional sports is littered with that histroy and many junior teams have followed suit, NCAA college being a major exception.
Weird that NCAA div 1 hockey survives though without a draft.
He should have just sucked it up and stuck it out. Doing what he did is only going to hurt his standing in the draft.
Only good reason for him to leave is health reasons/personal safety.
Really? I presume then that the only valid reason a WHL team has to trade player is if it's for health/personal safety reasons. So if said player is under-performing or management wants to build for the future, well, trading him wouldn't be in the spirit of "sucking it up and sticking it out", would it? Anything else would seem to imply a double standard.
Really? I presume then that the only valid reason a WHL team has to trade player is if it's for health/personal safety reasons. So if said player is under-performing or management wants to build for the future, well, trading him wouldn't be in the spirit of "sucking it up and sticking it out", would it? Anything else would seem to imply a double standard.
Teams/organizations arent people. Their goals are not always congruent. That is ok. Fact of the matter is Forsberg may or may not hurt his draft pedigree by pulling something like this in his draft year.
Quite frankly, it looks like there could be an attitude problem.
sure slavery is a strong word but the situation is closer to that in principle than a free market so skip the personal comments.
Like I asked before how would you feel if you had been drafted and sent to anywhere in your profession at the age of 15?
If you're in hockey and you don't like the idea of being drafted, go do something the **** else. Slaves had no rights and were indentured labour regardless of what they might want. Pro athletes (or aspiring pro athletes) happen to choose a career path that involves a limiting of your choice of employer. I have, in my hand, the world's tiniest violin, and it's currently dedicated 100% to hockey players.
Comparing lack of choice in employer to slavery is absolutely ridiculous; it's like comparing elementary school to prison because you have to do what you're told and there's no selection in the cafeteria.
You are still missing my point. This is not about Inglis. This is about Forsberg and the fact that he is in a poor environment out in PG. Inglis specifically called out PG's environment when there were three other teams that he could have called out but chose not to. Inglis or not, that's a sign that something is wrong in PG compared to other junior clubs. Add the fact PG's poor track record with prospects and it isn't hard to see that PG is probably not a good place for a player to develop. Brent Sutter knows next to nothing about PG. Get my point?
You are still missing my point. This is not about Inglis. This is about Forsberg and the fact that he is in a poor environment out in PG. Inglis specifically called out PG's environment when there were three other teams that he could have called out but chose not to. Inglis or not, that's a sign that something is wrong in PG compared to other junior clubs. Add the fact PG's poor track record with prospects and it isn't hard to see that PG is probably not a good place for a player to develop. Brent Sutter knows next to nothing about PG. Get my point?
Yes. He is very smart on the ice with really good offensive tools. Skating isn't pretty. Bit weak defensively. A worse skating version on Michael St. Croix. Perimeter players with tons of skill, but there games might not translate at the next level.
Forsberg could be a really good WHL player if put in the right situation. I could see him going to PA.
Good post. I watched Forsberg play bantam and midget and you pretty much summed his play and my concerns at the time for his development in the dub. Nevertheless, with the right team, i can see him putting up monster points later in his career.
As for the trade demand, i'm not sure why everyone seems to have their collective panties in a knot. The dub is a business (one, i might add, that makes a lot of money off of 16 and 17 year old kids). For the most part, franchises are owned and run by multi-millionaire owners with a lot of life experience. They take the risk when they decide to draft a player. A drafted player takes a risk when he agrees to sign with that team. A team can trade a player for any reason at all. Any reason. And a player can...suck it up and stick it out? Because he's supposed to be a martyr to a flawed economic system? Perhaps instead of pointing fingers at a 17 year old kid one might instead look to the brilliance of locating a franchise in the middle of nowhere and then hiring a dismal management team. Just a thought.
If you're in hockey and you don't like the idea of being drafted, go do something the **** else. Slaves had no rights and were indentured labour regardless of what they might want. Pro athletes (or aspiring pro athletes) happen to choose a career path that involves a limiting of your choice of employer. I have, in my hand, the world's tiniest violin, and it's currently dedicated 100% to hockey players.
Comparing lack of choice in employer to slavery is absolutely ridiculous; it's like comparing elementary school to prison because you have to do what you're told and there's no selection in the cafeteria.
Okay let's skip my over exaggeration with slavery, you still haven't answered the question.
And the WHL doesn't NEED the draft, they choose to have it.
NCAA teams offer scholarships (job opening)s and interviews take place where both college and player decide to go the same way or not.
It's a different way more fair to both parties, the draft is obviously tilted in favor of one side only right now.
