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Old
12-30-2012, 07:38 PM
  #626
Duir
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Paradise hope you're not actually leaving this forum over this :S


There have been some many very strong opinions and polarizing ideas on this bored so I wouldn't agree with that at all (which is an opinion of my own ):
Byfuglien offense outweighing (pun) his gaffs or not
Enstrom size being a liability
Wheeler's bad start being him or not
Burmistrov AHL issue with scoring
Ladd's late penalties
Antropov being "useless" vs Wellwood who is amazing... even though they score the exact same rates
Hainsey being overpaid
The large clutch argument
GST being good or useless
Stuart being good or useless
Pavelec having a poor year or being the defence fault

All of these have been opinions that have split people.
Also, just because multiple people have the same opinion doesn't mean it's not their own. Specially when some of these are things where there is a right or wrong answer.




Interesting how this conflicts with your comment above?
I've seen recognition here (and elsewhere by regular posters here) of non-Jets' property so I'm not sure where the conflict is anyways... :S

I believe he was referring to the fact that I would fully admit I was wrong and state that publicly. But, yeah, not surprised you disagree.

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12-30-2012, 07:40 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
No kidding, do a search for Trouba, some are even saying he is the best D out of this years draft. Not just on the main boards either.
Have heard that too. Looks like we got a solid one....no wonder Chevy was ecstatic when they interviewed him.

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12-30-2012, 07:45 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
Pretty much any other player that has a good game. I know that's vague, but there's been a lot of good games by other players in the tournament that seem to get over looked.

Canada's defence hasn't played very well either, yet there's very little talk about that. Let's be blunt about their play, it's been the *****. To me, Subban just seems to be the whipping boy. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of that, but it's entirely a misrepresentation of the entire teams defensive play, which has been less than spectacular. This team is poorly coached IMO and yet we seldom here about those deficiencies. Spot has shown an inability to problem solve and correct issues IMO.
I agree with your assesment that the Defense hasn't looked that terrific (looked better today against the Americans) they are really missing Murray imo. I also agree that Spott hasn't done a terrific job, I for one havent liked the pp set up much at all and I can't stand that he continues to put out his own player Murphy over a much better player in Rielly. It would be one thing if Murphy was actually contributing to the pp, but I can't count how many times hes been a liability especially his puck rushing. Anyways with regards to Jets players vs other players its pretty much the same thing on most other teams boards their prospects get the bulk of attention.

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12-30-2012, 07:51 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
If you chat on the JETS board you have to expect JETS bias. If you don't want that, that is what the global boards are for.

This is a safe haven for people to be fanboys if they so wish. You don't have to like it but please respect it.
But the main boards are scary ...

Plus there's always me to be the debbie downer around here

Also @Paradise and everyone, I posted my draft list and I have many strong opinions...I encourage anyone to save a particular quote from me or search old quotes to see if I'm right or wrong I love looking back, right or wrong. That's part of the fun! I'm always looking back at my old posts seeing what I was right or wrong about...man did I ever hate the Scuderi signing in LA at the time...funny how things change (one of my personal favourites now and view him as an absolute steal...)

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:53 PM
  #630
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Old
12-30-2012, 07:57 PM
  #631
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I'm leavin the jets boards too and going to have a wamburger.
The only d man on Canada I've liked as much as trouba is reilly, I just think he has a ton of upside. Does anyone know who will be scratched for tomorrow?

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12-30-2012, 07:59 PM
  #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I'm leavin the jets boards too and going to have a wamburger.
The only d man on Canada I've liked as much as trouba is reilly, I just think he has a ton of upside. Does anyone know who will be scratched for tomorrow?
Why would anyone be scratched?

EDIT: (Other than Paterson)

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12-30-2012, 07:59 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Why would anyone be scratched?
We're getting two guys back from suspension.

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12-30-2012, 08:01 PM
  #634
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We're getting two guys back from suspension.
Your allowed to dress all 20 skaters in the WJC.

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12-30-2012, 08:02 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I'In m leavin the jets boards too and going to have a wamburger.
The only d man on Canada I've liked as much as trouba is reilly, I just think he has a ton of upside. Does anyone know who will be scratched for tomorrow?
In IIHF tournaments you are allowed to dress all your skaters unlike the NHL so all the players will be on the bench but imo Lipon will see a lot less icetime then every other forward.

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12-30-2012, 08:07 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
In IIHF tournaments you are allowed to dress all your skaters unlike the NHL so all the players will be on the bench but imo Lipon will see a lot less icetime then every other forward.
That's what I thought. Wonder what that will do to the lines?

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12-30-2012, 08:16 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Your allowed to dress all 20 skaters in the WJC.
For some reason I completely forgot that.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:16 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I suspect you are right and thought I had heard it that he had committed to play a minimum of only 2 years at Michigan. In any event, I would be very surprised if he spent more than that.
FWIW, speaking as a college grad myself, with 2 sons at University, if Jacob Trouba were my son, I would tell him to get to the NHL earlier rather than later, unless he was a true academic (the rare high level athlete-scholar who excels in, eg, pre-med, engineering). For most elite athletes, a University undergrad education is highly over-rated, as they are mostly focused on their training, not on learning.

One more thing about his developmental requirements while I'm at it...this kid is already scary good. He is way ahead of where Scheifele was last year at the WJC and they are going nuts over him on the main boards. If we are to have a franchise player, I am putting my money on Trouba. It's early, but I am really pumped about this kid.
Agreed. Once he gets a couple of years of college under his belt and if he is academically inclined he can take courses in the off season. I just can't see a player with his potential waiting 4 years before starting his real career.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:19 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by TheBunk View Post
Actually, garret, my point was it took me all of ten minutes to find 26 players who played three or more years at a post-secondary institution. And yes, I know not all of them finished but many did. The point is a lot of players will follow through on their eduction and my guess is Trouba will.

By down-playing many members of that list you are not doing them any justice at all. Just because someone was a late rounder doesn't make them a top prospect. I can remember just after the likes of Zetterberg and Lundqist got drafted (and both late) and were on the radar for high end talent within the year. What you are arguing is the learning arch for each player compared to Trouba's projection. What I am arguing is that there are many players do opt to stay in post-secondary to secure an end-game after hockey.
I don't know everyone so I'm not 100% sure, but there hasn't been a "high-end" prospect (which is different than a prospect that was taking late that turned out to be a gem later in their development) who has taken all 4 years of college. That was the other posters point.

Combine that with Trouba's comments have constantly been along the lines of I will report when called, and it seems that Trouba plans to do 4 years regardless of being ready being an unlikely scenario. Now you may be right in him ending with 4 years, but he'd be an exception and in my mind a really unlikely one.

I don't really think I was down playing those members or that my point doesn't stand.

I'm having difficulty in trying to properly explain my thoughts on this:
Someone being a late rounder normally does means they were not a top-prospect (at the time). Those who turned great careers out of the late rounds are usually late bloomers (as represented by Cammalleri on your list), or surprises (or both). Those great hall of fame players who came out of the late rounds are surprises. The GM of Detroit said if he knew Zetterberg or Dats had half the kind of potential they ended up having, he would have drafted them in the first round. It still took years for them to become what they were after they drafted. Now there are guys who may have suddenly developed within a year of being drafted but none of the examples above were amongst that; I was mostly showing that by showing how many of those players played the AHL long after they left school.

Development arc is important as the whole point of the argument is revolving around a player selecting to stay in NCAA when they are NHL ready. Only 6 of your examples were drafted players who stayed in school and none of them were even NHL ready after their 4th year.

So it still seems that these players could have stayed in the NCAA for as long as they did as they were not NHL ready. A team doesn't want to burn a year of ELC to play in the AHL after not making the team in tryouts if they are not ready.

Your point may have been that it's easy to find people that are 3+ years of schooling but it doesn't show fault in the other posters argument that there is no example of a high-end prospect who has completed their schooling.
1) any player with 3 years doesn't argue against the original statement
2) the 6 who did 4 years you showed were not high-end prospects

So it may be easy to find 3+ years but still haven't seen a high-end prospect 4 year (not saying there isn't one... there tends to be exceptions in all things in life haha)
But I do see your point all in good fun

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:29 PM
  #640
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It wouldn't be too smart to wait four years, one serious injury and you never play a game in the show. He will be with the jets after next season.

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12-30-2012, 08:43 PM
  #641
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From one of Trouba's interviews:

Quote:
Jacob: Obviously my goal is eventually to make it to the pros. When I feel like I am ready to do that and when I see that it's best for me, I will leave school to play in the NHL. I don't know when that will be.
So, fairly non-committal either way, but does not shut the door on leaving school prior to finishing his degree.

Article here: http://www.michigantremendous.com/20...ith-jacob.html

I've seen similar statements from him in other interviews as well. Personally, I think it depends on how he fares in training camp, and (potentially) during a try-out. One thing is for certain: he's made it fairly clear that it will be on his terms and when he feels that the timing is right.

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12-30-2012, 08:45 PM
  #642
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Looks like our game against the Russians could turn into another battle of the tenders. Lets hope Subban can build of that great game against the Americans.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:52 PM
  #643
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I don't think I am really differing with TheBunk much on Trouba and his education. we both believe it's a priority and both feel he will get his degree (we both might be wrong but who knows). I feel he will enter the NHL when he is ready and get his degree as time permits and who knows that may be 3 years after this but watching him in the world juniors I think he will be ready for the NHL after his sophomore season at the latest barring any injuries.

either way I think we probably agree that we have a heck of a prospect on our hands

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12-30-2012, 08:52 PM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
For fun - which teams would "likely" start Jones in the NHL next year?

Islanders
Oilers

Who else?
Highly subjective, but i'd guess:

Calgary
Dallas
Carolina
Buffalo
Washington
Phoenix

Heck, maybe even the Jets. Load up both Trouba and Jones as the bottom pairing - that may be enticing enough to have Trouba leave Michigan after only one year.

I see it somewhat similar to what the NJ Devils did with Larsson last year. Granted Larsson is a European and Jones plays in CHL, but depending on who drafts him, they may want him in the lineup (American kid, high pick, teams looking for smaller cap hits, etc.).

Murray was penciled in to CBJ lineup before the lockout, and that's an area of 'strength' for the Blue Jackets. Jones would likely have a bigger impact on a team (above) than Murry would in CBJ.

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12-30-2012, 09:00 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I don't think I am really differing with TheBunk much on Trouba and his education. we both believe it's a priority and both feel he will get his degree (we both might be wrong but who knows). I feel he will enter the NHL when he is ready and get his degree as time permits and who knows that may be 3 years after this but watching him in the world juniors I think he will be ready for the NHL after his sophomore season at the latest barring any injuries.

either way I think we probably agree that we have a heck of a prospect on our hands
Oh man do we ever. Kids a total beast out there!

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12-30-2012, 09:07 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
From one of Trouba's interviews:



So, fairly non-committal either way, but does not shut the door on leaving school prior to finishing his degree.

Article here: http://www.michigantremendous.com/20...ith-jacob.html

I've seen similar statements from him in other interviews as well. Personally, I think it depends on how he fares in training camp, and (potentially) during a try-out. One thing is for certain: he's made it fairly clear that it will be on his terms and when he feels that the timing is right.
That's the thing.

NCAA players cannot go to pro camps... (but can go to developmental camps)
With NCAA the second Trouba plays a pre-season game he loses NCAA status.

That's why I was saying I highly doubt Trouba comes next season. He is giving up NCAA status the second he decides to try out for the Jets.

I'm calling Trouba leaves NCAA for the 2014-15 or 2015-16 season and, just like TheBunk, I will eat my words publicly if wrong .

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12-30-2012, 09:07 PM
  #647
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With how Scheifele and Trouba are playing in this year's WJC, I was thinking... They may be the best draft duo in the tournament.

Like them better than NYI's Strome/Reinhart or TML's Rielly/Biggs. Or Mtl's Gally/Collberg.

Just when i was feeling pretty good about this whole thing, I remembered Edm's RNH/Yakupov draft duo. :'(

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:23 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
That's the thing.

NCAA players cannot go to pro camps... (but can go to developmental camps)
With NCAA the second Trouba plays a pre-season game he loses NCAA status.

That's why I was saying I highly doubt Trouba comes next season. He is giving up NCAA status the second he decides to try out for the Jets.

I'm calling Trouba leaves NCAA for the 2014-15 or 2015-16 season and, just like TheBunk, I will eat my words publicly if wrong .
LOL awesome dude

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12-30-2012, 10:21 PM
  #649
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I watch Scheifele play decent and he gets lifted to the status of king. I watch others players play superb and no recognition. I know this is the Jets board, but this is also a World Juniors thread. Is it really impossible to view games without bias?

Sometimes I feel like it's the Twilight Zone in here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I do respect it, but respect is a two way street. I'll take your advice and not post in this forum anymore.
Paradise I think this a balanced board with a homer slant "IMHO" Mark has been a VERY polarizing draft pick from day 1 on this board. scheif being the "off the board, reach pick" got the ball rolling and other than his crazy training camp and preseason his rookie year led to allot of tormenting from within and without and the "rookie mistake" Avatars by some flyers fans were my personal favorites Last year during WJC he got a really rough ride here. also during his less than stellar AHL playoff run he took a beating as well.

This year he has put on size and weight, has a more complete game, is much more consistant in juniors and is dominating night in night out. He is playing pretty well in the WJC so far. That being said I think at best the fan base is still split and many would still take Couturier in a heart beat.

Trouba is different and is almost the reverse of Mark. Despite the fact Forsburg and Grigs slid and there were a few posters on our board who howled when we took Trouba they were fewer and farther between and they were quickly drowned out by a majority who saw Trouba as a great pick and were suprised and thrilled he had fallen to us.

Jacob took the collage route and has largely flown under the radar (compared to his fellow draft class) up until this WJC or at least on HFBoards. The WJC has been his coming out party with his full skill set and attitude on display and his appeal to HFBoards fans appears to be close to universal. I think most people outside our board are saying rookie mistake ....sophomore sucker punch. I don't think I am wearing my rose colored glasses when I say that many other fan bases wish they had landed Jacob.

Anyways this is how I see our board....we have our homers but on balance we are pretty tame compared to most boards.

By the way I enjoy your comments and look forward to debating you now and in the future because it is through our differences of opinion that I learn and grow.

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12-30-2012, 10:31 PM
  #650
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I remembered Edm's RNH/Yakupov draft duo. :'(
No kidding, how often does it happen that one team owns the rights to the two best teams captains?

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