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Roster Talk '13 — U.S.A. (Part 2)

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Old
12-30-2012, 04:45 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Oak View Post
I was caught up with the Seth Jones hype for a while but after watching him against Russia and Canada I am pretty disappointed. I put the blame solely on him for the loss to Russia, he let the guy skate right through him who which led to the 2nd goal.

He looked great against Germany, but a 1st overall draft pick in 2013? You have to be kidding me.
He's certainly made some mistakes--I still ascribe more fault to Reilly for getting back so lazily and allowing the trailer tap in the rebound--including on today's second goal, but he's also had a lot of bright spots. You can sense his dominance when he's out there, and his tools are off the charts.

If he gets Couturier-ed (the phenomena of hurting one's draft stock based on a small sample of games at the WJC) and slips down draft boards, those teams who pass on him will regret it, just as several of the teams who passed on Couturier will come to regret it, if they don't already. I'm not saying Jones should go #1, but if he slips, that's ridiculous.

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12-30-2012, 04:49 PM
  #702
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Time to go home then I guess.
No. Team USA has some very strong elements. The defense is solid (huge improvement since the exhibition), very good PK. Some of your offensive elements have proven they can settle in the offensive zone when they get the play going.

The problem is simply chemistry isn't settling on the forward lines because of braindead coaching. Slovakia is the perfect opportunity to try a new recipe.

Or they can just try again what has failed before. But you know what Einstein said about that...

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12-30-2012, 05:29 PM
  #703
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I am not trying to bash these kids, but this is a team of scrubs, at forward especially. the defense has some good players. they did a pathetic job selecting players, to many midgets, and the guys who are with size have almost no talent. the roster just isn't that good
This is such an easy and lame argument. Who do you think would have made that much of a difference?

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12-30-2012, 05:29 PM
  #704
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I guess this tournament defines how a prospect will turn out now...

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12-30-2012, 05:56 PM
  #705
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Some people need to get over their jingoism and grow up.

There's always nationalistic trolling going on this time of year from the usual suspects.

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12-30-2012, 05:58 PM
  #706
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Somebody save me some time: Is every USA thread little more than Habs fans complaining about Galchenyuk's ice time/throwing the rest of the team under the bus whilst ascribing zero of the fault to Galchenyuk?

I'll say he could use a few more minutes of ice, but, at the same time, he's been generally unimpressive, as have most/all the USA forwards. It's a small sample size of games, though, and he'll be a fine player.
I hear you. As a Habs fan, I can honestly that these comments about Galchenyuk are making us look bad. I'm often ashamed to be in the same group of some of these fans, and I'm really tired of seeing the same posters making terrible arguments to keep the hype on our prospects.

I've seen every USA game except the last one, and I would also say that Galchenyuk has been average. I don't see any chemistry with his linemates and I don't like that they're using him on the wing. He should be centering and controlling the puck more.

I've been impressed by Gibson and by the skillset of Jones. He's going to be great.

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12-30-2012, 06:09 PM
  #707
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Miller has 1 goal, and is a -1. His goal was the 7th goal vs Germany, unassisted off of a turnover. Why isn't he carrying the load offensively?
Glad to see you're using stats as your argument. In Game 1 Miller was a giveaway machine but made a lot happen offensively.

In Games 2 and 3 he made more happen offensively then every other player. The difference is Galchenyuk benefited from an awfully lucky goal by Trouba, while Gaudreau missed on a breakaway and a wide open net supplied by Miller. If luck had switched a little bit they would be tied in points, and nobody would have stats to resort to, instead of providing actual in-game examples.

And losing 2-1 to Canada and Russia really isn't that huge of a deal. Not upset about the team thus far, I just find it hilarious how people pick favorites based on games against severely inferior teams and just blindly stick with them every single year for the rest of this tournament. That's why Charlie Coyle is somehow considered a great US player from this tournament.

Miller cemented himself as the whipping boy after his Game 1, and only a Jordan Eberle-esque clutch performance will reverse that.

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12-30-2012, 06:14 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Glad to see you're using stats as your argument. In Game 1 Miller was a giveaway machine but made a lot happen offensively.

In Games 2 and 3 he made more happen offensively then every other player. The difference is Galchenyuk benefited from an awfully lucky goal by Trouba, while Gaudreau missed on a breakaway and a wide open net supplied by Miller. If luck had switched a little bit they would be tied in points, and nobody would have stats to resort to, instead of providing actual in-game examples.

And losing 2-1 to Canada and Russia really isn't that huge of a deal. Not upset about the team thus far, I just find it hilarious how people pick favorites based on games against severely inferior teams and just blindly stick with them every single year for the rest of this tournament. That's why Charlie Coyle is somehow considered a great US player from this tournament.

Miller cemented himself as the whipping boy after his Game 1, and only a Jordan Eberle-esque clutch performance will reverse that.
But if luck had been on Galchenyuk's side, he wouldn't have missed the tying goal in the late 3rd today..

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12-30-2012, 06:20 PM
  #709
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Canadian neighbour and Winnipeg Jet fan here... just wanted to say something...

Thank you USA for Trouba!
I loved him giving it to Scheifele (also Jet prospect lol) at the end. The kid does not like giving an inch or losing.
#beastmode

...that is all.

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12-30-2012, 06:21 PM
  #710
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hahahaha

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12-30-2012, 06:21 PM
  #711
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But if luck had been on Galchenyuk's side, he wouldn't have missed the tying goal in the late 3rd today..
That was in his hands (not blaming him to be clear). Passing the puck to Trouba and simply gaining an assist from a lucky play is not. Just as Gaudreau missing two major opportunities is not in Miller's hands.

I mean seriously, people are raving about plays that Riley Barber makes in Game 1. It's not difficult to see that those type of things wouldn't work against a more competitive team. Kuraly bought himself a buffer game from criticism in Game 1, when he has been completely invisible the past 2 games. Yet it's Grimaldi getting flack; he may have been hogging the puck against Russia, but he was making things happen offensively all over the place. That's more then US's other three lines can say.

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12-30-2012, 06:27 PM
  #712
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Canadian neighbour and Winnipeg Jet fan here... just wanted to say something...

Thank you USA for Trouba!
I loved him giving it to Scheifele (also Jet prospect lol) at the end. The kid does not like giving an inch or losing.
#beastmode

...that is all.
Talk about a headshot not called. Trouba just straight cleaned Scheifele's clock.

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12-30-2012, 06:29 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
That was in his hands (not blaming him to be clear). Passing the puck to Trouba and simply gaining an assist from a lucky play is not. Just as Gaudreau missing two major opportunities is not in Miller's hands.

I mean seriously, people are raving about plays that Riley Barber makes in Game 1. It's not difficult to see that those type of things wouldn't work against a more competitive team. Kuraly bought himself a buffer game from criticism in Game 1, when he has been completely invisible the past 2 games. Yet it's Grimaldi getting flack; he may have been hogging the puck against Russia, but he was making things happen offensively all over the place. That's more then US's other three lines can say.
JT Miller has higher expectations as a AHL and returning player than Barber or Kuraly.

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12-30-2012, 06:29 PM
  #714
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This is such an easy and lame argument. Who do you think would have made that much of a difference?
the sad part is the only guys who would have gotten replaced by anyone on here before this started would have been our 4th line, and they have been the best damn line we have had overall!

I am not a real big fan of Kuraly, so I think Vail would have been much better overall then him imo... nothing earth shattering, but he is centering Galchenyuk and really has no business doing so.

Kerdiles, Erne, Vail, and Boucher are the top 4 kids that could have helped out on this team...but the only names I could think of replacing are Kuraly and Vesey...both of them should not have made this team over those 4 imo...

but any comments talking about our smurfs or big players is stupid as Gaudreau and Grimaldi have off the world skills and were playing like it prior to the tourney. Biggs and Miller are the only real beef we have, far more talented then the other players similar to them.

we all can second guess which is easy to do, I just wish the December camp had around 32 kids there, so it would have been ultra competitive and kids would have fought for their spots...most of the kids who didnt get an invite anyway were CHL kids...and they arent taking exams like the NCAA kids...

this sucks if we waste this year while having John Gibson in net. I dont know about the rest of you, but this is really the first year that I havent even given 2 seconds of thought towards our goalie as he has been so damn calm, sturdy, and reliable. If we score 3 goals a game from here on out, I think we medal as Gibson doesnt look to be giving up much.

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12-30-2012, 06:31 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
This is such an easy and lame argument. Who do you think would have made that much of a difference?
I don't think he's arguing that we have better players. I think he's just saying we straight up suck.

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12-30-2012, 06:33 PM
  #716
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the sad part is the only guys who would have gotten replaced by anyone on here before this started would have been our 4th line, and they have been the best damn line we have had overall!

I am not a real big fan of Kuraly, so I think Vail would have been much better overall then him imo... nothing earth shattering, but he is centering Galchenyuk and really has no business doing so.

Kerdiles, Erne, Vail, and Boucher are the top 4 kids that could have helped out on this team...but the only names I could think of replacing are Kuraly and Vesey...both of them should not have made this team over those 4 imo...

but any comments talking about our smurfs or big players is stupid as Gaudreau and Grimaldi have off the world skills and were playing like it prior to the tourney. Biggs and Miller are the only real beef we have, far more talented then the other players similar to them.

we all can second guess which is easy to do, I just wish the December camp had around 32 kids there, so it would have been ultra competitive and kids would have fought for their spots...most of the kids who didnt get an invite anyway were CHL kids...and they arent taking exams like the NCAA kids...

this sucks if we waste this year while having John Gibson in net. I dont know about the rest of you, but this is really the first year that I havent even given 2 seconds of thought towards our goalie as he has been so damn calm, sturdy, and reliable. If we score 3 goals a game from here on out, I think we medal as Gibson doesnt look to be giving up much.
I didn't think Boucher was much of an omission, but now I'm thinking somebody who can shot might be useful. I mean Biggs can't skate worth a lick compared to most of the team, and his net front presence and physical play have been pretty marginal on the international ice surface. But if he can be on the team, a guy with a good shot like Boucher, but who has skating question marks, probably can too.

Kerdiles being a left handed shot probably limited what the coaches thought they could do with him. I think a big factor is using Galchenyuk as a left winger in their minds they don't see him as a better option top six than Galchenyuk or Gaudreau and that's right. But I don't like Galchenyuk at left wing and think that moving him to center would allow another skilled left winger to play a top six role rather than Sean Kuraly at center.

Kerdiles-Galchenyuk-RW

Then again I'm on the Lucia bandwagon as a good skilled forward and he's hardly getting any playing time in favor of keeping Galchenyuk at wing and giving big minutes to Kuraly and Barber, so maybe I'm just a bad talent evaluator.

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12-30-2012, 06:35 PM
  #717
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Talk about a headshot not called. Trouba just straight cleaned Scheifele's clock.
Ya... I've noticed a few high hits with Trouba (at Michigan). He'll need to learn to stop that (ie: hitting them lower), but if anyone on the US was to punch Scheifele it might as well be Trouba.

At the Jets' development camp in the summer at Winnipeg, Trouba threw his weight at Scheifele a few times on some 1-on-1 drills.

It'll make some interesting future team dynamics...

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12-30-2012, 06:39 PM
  #718
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Ya... I've noticed a few high hits with Trouba (at Michigan). He'll need to learn to stop that (ie: hitting them lower), but if anyone on the US was to punch Scheifele it might as well be Trouba.

At the Jets' development camp in the summer at Winnipeg, Trouba threw his weight at Scheifele a few times on some 1-on-1 drills.

It'll make some interesting future team dynamics...
Well there's probably a pretty good chance Trouba will be back next year. Maybe he will leave Michigan, maybe not, but he seems pretty committed to the Wolverines so two years doesn't seem a stretch. Too bad he will only be able to punch Scheifele at practice after this year though.

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12-30-2012, 06:47 PM
  #719
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I am not trying to bash these kids, but this is a team of scrubs, at forward especially. the defense has some good players. they did a pathetic job selecting players, to many midgets, and the guys who are with size have almost no talent. the roster just isn't that good
I don't buy it. They could have done a better job with the roster but if Finland, Slovakia, Czechs, Switzerland, and Sweden can score here than so can this team. They've just shown no chemistry and little execution.

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12-30-2012, 06:54 PM
  #720
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Well there's probably a pretty good chance Trouba will be back next year. Maybe he will leave Michigan, maybe not, but he seems pretty committed to the Wolverines so two years doesn't seem a stretch. Too bad he will only be able to punch Scheifele at practice after this year though.
with the way Jones has played, I see him back as well. He just is not ready for NHL duty yet... and though I am mostly talking about his play at the WJC, he still needs time to get stronger and more mature which will benefit him in 2 years imo.

Having Jones and Trouba back next year would be a great great thing for this team. Add Pat Sieloff and we have a solid three defensemen back...Plus Matt Grzelcyk is a 94, and I could see that as a nice start for our defense...

I believe only 2 forwards will be back which is why I hate always bringing 19 year olds...the turnover is just so damn high that team chemistry is always a concern. Hartman and Barber are the only 2 forwards back as I am sure Alex Galchenyuk will be in the NHL.

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12-30-2012, 06:56 PM
  #721
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Only consistent scoring forward on team USA, invisible?
Aside from the assist on Trouba's goal, he was invisible, and not entirely his fault. Housley just isn't playing him enough, and he can't take control of the play because he's not playing his position.

Also, I don't know why Habs fans get antsy about criticism to Gally. He hasn't been the dominating force we expected him to be, that's just how I see it, and I'm okay with that because the WJC aren't do or die for a prospect.

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12-30-2012, 07:01 PM
  #722
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I didn't think Boucher was much of an omission, but now I'm thinking somebody who can shot might be useful. I mean Biggs can't skate worth a lick compared to most of the team, and his net front presence and physical play have been pretty marginal on the international ice surface. But if he can be on the team, a guy with a good shot like Boucher, but who has skating question marks, probably can too.

Kerdiles being a left handed shot probably limited what the coaches thought they could do with him. I think a big factor is using Galchenyuk as a left winger in their minds they don't see him as a better option top six than Galchenyuk or Gaudreau and that's right. But I don't like Galchenyuk at left wing and think that moving him to center would allow another skilled left winger to play a top six role rather than Sean Kuraly at center.

Kerdiles-Galchenyuk-RW

Then again I'm on the Lucia bandwagon as a good skilled forward and he's hardly getting any playing time in favor of keeping Galchenyuk at wing and giving big minutes to Kuraly and Barber, so maybe I'm just a bad talent evaluator.
again its easy to second guess right now, but our main issue is goal scoring, and what does Boucher do??? he scores goals, and big ones.

the other thing I always said was Boucher should have been here just for the fact that him and Galchenyuk were linemates. Look at the way Galchenyuk and his linemates have played...very little cohesion there, they simply arent playing like they know each other at all outside of Germany.. if Boucher was here I would venture to say that Galchenyuk would play a bit better as they have been teammates for 2 years and the familiarity between them was priceless.

The only other player who should be here 100% is Adam Erne. With his size and skill the kid could have played any role you wanted. And being a 17 year old playing in a majority French speaking league, and dominating the way he has, this kid would have been a blessing to have here...but to not even give him a chance to show his stuff at the December camp was criminal.

I know he is a 95, and USA Hockey rarely brings these kids along, but when you have this type of young gun who is physically mature, you need to bring him along as soon as possible...Canada has both Drouin and Mackinnon on their stacked team, surely we could have found room for Erne on our squad.

As for Lucia, I am a big fan like you, and I am amazed how little icetime him and Trocheck get. Trocheck got more icetime against Canada it seemed, but both of those should be together with Galchenyuk on their wing if you ask me. Lucia has size and skill but hasnt had much of a chance to show it off. Hopefully tomorrow we will get to see some of these kids finally step up and explode as many are soooo due.

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12-30-2012, 07:02 PM
  #723
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I was caught up with the Seth Jones hype for a while but after watching him against Russia and Canada I am pretty disappointed. I put the blame solely on him for the loss to Russia, he let the guy skate right through him who which led to the 2nd goal.

He looked great against Germany, but a 1st overall draft pick in 2013? You have to be kidding me.
He's an underager, they don't dominate these tournaments historically. you need some context.

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12-30-2012, 07:13 PM
  #724
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This is such an easy and lame argument. Who do you think would have made that much of a difference?
It's an easy argument because it's the truth, it's a weak crop of forwards. 5 midget forwards and none of them have elite talent, except for 1 or 2, and those guys are having trouble doing anything

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12-30-2012, 07:15 PM
  #725
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That was in his hands (not blaming him to be clear). Passing the puck to Trouba and simply gaining an assist from a lucky play is not. Just as Gaudreau missing two major opportunities is not in Miller's hands.

I mean seriously, people are raving about plays that Riley Barber makes in Game 1. It's not difficult to see that those type of things wouldn't work against a more competitive team. Kuraly bought himself a buffer game from criticism in Game 1, when he has been completely invisible the past 2 games. Yet it's Grimaldi getting flack; he may have been hogging the puck against Russia, but he was making things happen offensively all over the place. That's more then US's other three lines can say.
You're way to defensive with Miller, he's supposed to be a difference maker, instead he's Just Another Guy out there

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