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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 6)

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Old
12-30-2012, 12:47 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Oh so there's a good chance he won't be back next year, to me he's ready for the jump.
He may be, but it's up to Calgary to make that decision and they like their prospects to finish out their time in Junior.

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12-30-2012, 01:30 PM
  #502
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I think it will depend on how Calgary sees his development with us this year. I think he'd be physically ready, but if the Flames figure he could develop well enough here, it's money they don't have to then pay him to develop on their AHL team. Sieloff being the 7th defenceman on Team USA Junior squad could be concerning even if it is part based on the Euro refereeing and Pat's physical style.

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12-30-2012, 01:40 PM
  #503
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I think it will depend on how Calgary sees his development with us this year. I think he'd be physically ready, but if the Flames figure he could develop well enough here, it's money they don't have to then pay him to develop on their AHL team. Sieloff being the 7th defenceman on Team USA Junior squad could be concerning even if it is part based on the Euro refereeing and Pat's physical style.
I bet a lot depends on the new CBA. If an NHL team can amnesty a player eg. Bouwmeester. Their D doesn't look that good in the NHL and in the AHL they have a few older vets that don't have NHL aspirations anymore. Sieloff is probably capable of going to the AHL next year it's not like Steve McCarthy, Joe Piskula and Zach McKelvie should be higher priorities than Sieloff.

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12-30-2012, 02:54 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Oh so there's a good chance he won't be back next year, to me he's ready for the jump.
IMHO he is not ready for the jump. He has a lot to learn about playing defense. He may very well be an NHL D-Man down the line but at this point he needs to learn to play good defense in the OHL.( Big hits are crowd pleasers and momentum changers but good positional play is just as important). If he were to play in the AHL next year it would be the same as Koko playing against men in the KHL....not enough experience and not enough strength.

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12-30-2012, 03:00 PM
  #505
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Re Sieloff - I don't think you can trade him right now. The fan base is questionable as it is, and he's a fan favourite. A valuable one at that, too. Like I said yesterday, Vail, Sieloff, and Posa are guys you probably don't deal because you'll need them for more than just on-ice stuff.

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How about Seiloff and Johnson to London for Welytcha and Raine and a couple of picks
I actually don't mind this, but I'd HATE seeing Sieloff go.

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12-30-2012, 04:03 PM
  #506
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I would definitely be interested in DeAngelo if I were to trade Seiloff,also Ebert for Middleton is intriguing
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Legend in my mind and let's say for discussion sake that Spits don't get the Memorial Cup and can't turn it around over night for a contender. In regards to Sieloff I think there's a better chance if you trade him now you could entice a team like Sarnia to move DeAngelo, Plymouth could move Mistele. If you wait to next year there's no way Plymouth moves Mistele or Sarnia moves DeAngelo. If you moved Vail and Ebert you maybe could get a guy like Middleton in OS. If you moved Vail or Ebert to Guelph maybe you could scoop a guy like Garlent at least the Spits would finally have a guy down the middle.

If you wait it out for next year guys like DeAngelo, Mistele, Middleton, Garlent won't be available. My thought is all based upon getting young guys because you aren't going to get any impact player from the 2013 draft. We also have to keep in mind Saginaw will probably be selling and anything they get from Trocheck and Ross is likely to make the team better next year and when you put them with guys like Moutrey, Locke, Lodge, Kea, Young(I think he will be back), Paterson, Prophet(he should get better) and possibly a high pick in 2013 I would put them ahead of Windsor. We have had debates about Plymouth I would still take Mistele, Wilson, Hartman, Payne up front over what Windsor has returning. I think you take your medicine get some young guys and with picks in 14 build for 2015.

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12-30-2012, 04:07 PM
  #507
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I agree Seiloff not ready for the Ahl Calgary not known for rushing young d-men
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Originally Posted by punch1943 View Post
IMHO he is not ready for the jump. He has a lot to learn about playing defense. He may very well be an NHL D-Man down the line but at this point he needs to learn to play good defense in the OHL.( Big hits are crowd pleasers and momentum changers but good positional play is just as important). If he were to play in the AHL next year it would be the same as Koko playing against men in the KHL....not enough experience and not enough strength.

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12-30-2012, 05:47 PM
  #508
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Interesting stats from the last two games,Vail,Johnson,Murphy,Bateman,Maletta were all -5 in those 2 games,while Ebert was a -4.The much malinged Rychel and Clarke were only -1 each,while Lorentz was 0 or even,not bad when your team gives up 17 goals. Sav Posa was a +1 in his return last nite,and fought Erić Locke despite feeling not quite 100% gutty effort in my view
Rychel is considered our #1 scoring line, meaning he'll get the other teams #1 checking line against him - so the opposition is more focused on stopping Kerby than scoring themselves.

Vail plays against the oppositions top scoring line and his mission is more to stop them from scoring than scoring himself.

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12-30-2012, 06:01 PM
  #509
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I don't see the need to strip things bare and completely rebuild from scratch. Even if you accept that this year's team is doomed despite the possible return of Khokhlachev you can't write off next year as well and jettison the only guys we have who are worth something. If a guy is traded I think he has to be a guy who won't be back next year anyway, (although I'm loathe to trade Koko if he returns) or it has to be a guy who is underachieving. Guys like Sieloff, Rychel, and Vail are living up to their expectations and should be the cornerstones of a solid club next year if not one capable of winning a memorial cup. I think Windsor needs to make itself as competitive as possible each year, and if we're able to secure a cup hosting gig for next year out of doing that then it's gravy. If not, then at least we aren't tolerating more garbage hockey than we should be. If we trade our guys who are performing now just to rebuild again from scratch we'll have a lot more horrible hockey on the horizon and it isn't going to help recruit guys like Butcher, Schmaltz and Allen next year to have nothing to work with. It sucks enough watching guys like Barber and Pietilla play for team USA at the world juniors this year. There's enough pieces here to be a top club before they all go pro. No need to sell.

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12-30-2012, 07:07 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by jughead42 View Post
I don't see the need to strip things bare and completely rebuild from scratch. Even if you accept that this year's team is doomed despite the possible return of Khokhlachev you can't write off next year as well and jettison the only guys we have who are worth something. If a guy is traded I think he has to be a guy who won't be back next year anyway, (although I'm loathe to trade Koko if he returns) or it has to be a guy who is underachieving. Guys like Sieloff, Rychel, and Vail are living up to their expectations and should be the cornerstones of a solid club next year if not one capable of winning a memorial cup. I think Windsor needs to make itself as competitive as possible each year, and if we're able to secure a cup hosting gig for next year out of doing that then it's gravy. If not, then at least we aren't tolerating more garbage hockey than we should be. If we trade our guys who are performing now just to rebuild again from scratch we'll have a lot more horrible hockey on the horizon and it isn't going to help recruit guys like Butcher, Schmaltz and Allen next year to have nothing to work with. It sucks enough watching guys like Barber and Pietilla play for team USA at the world juniors this year. There's enough pieces here to be a top club before they all go pro. No need to sell.
I am not buying Sieloff, Rychel and Vail is a good enough core to win a Memorial Cup with, heck that core is questionable to even make the OHL playoffs. You talk about trading guys now and rebuilding and not recruiting those guys. What happens after next year if Rychel goes for it and loses all those 19 year olds we have already seen the Spits don't have a good crop of 17 year olds Boughner has made that quite clear with his words. You will just end up rebuilding in 2014 anyways, we are talking about 2 mediocre years now, go for it in 2013-2014 and then mediocre in 14-15. Butcher and Allen aren't showing up they signed their LOI's and have made it clear they want the NCAA. If you don't sell you're hurting the organzation going forward, the only future high NHL pick they have is Rychel or Ho-Sang, banners aren't being raised anymore. We can have our talks about the glory days but fact is it looks like the past 4 years there will have been 4 different division winners it's not like Windsor has clearly been the dominant team in their division. Another year or two I think questions will arise if Windsor is a great place for young prospects to develop.

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12-30-2012, 07:20 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I am not buying Sieloff, Rychel and Vail is a good enough core to win a Memorial Cup with, heck that core is questionable to even make the OHL playoffs. You talk about trading guys now and rebuilding and not recruiting those guys. What happens after next year if Rychel goes for it and loses all those 19 year olds we have already seen the Spits don't have a good crop of 17 year olds Boughner has made that quite clear with his words. You will just end up rebuilding in 2014 anyways, we are talking about 2 mediocre years now, go for it in 2013-2014 and then mediocre in 14-15. Butcher and Allen aren't showing up they signed their LOI's and have made it clear they want the NCAA. If you don't sell you're hurting the organzation going forward, the only future high NHL pick they have is Rychel or Ho-Sang, banners aren't being raised anymore. We can have our talks about the glory days but fact is it looks like the past 4 years there will have been 4 different division winners it's not like Windsor has clearly been the dominant team in their division. Another year or two I think questions will arise if Windsor is a great place for young prospects to develop.
Rychel Vail and Sieloff may not be the core of a championship team but it's 3 solid pieces that can be the foundation of a competitive team for next year. Read what I posted, I never suggested that it was good enough to win a cup. Every season doesn't have to be a black and white, all or nothing proposition. I would be cool with keeping what good players we have, adding to it through recruiting americans and imports for next year, shuffling a few pieces to get the right mix and maybe being a club that can compete. I'm not talking about compete for a cup, I'm talking about compete on a nightly basis and make it worth watching the games. Maybe home ice for the playoffs. That is certainly possible with the assets we have available. To me that is way better than selling them off and tanking for the rest of this year and next and banking on a bunch of kids who may just be maletta and bateman version 2.0.

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12-30-2012, 07:40 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by jughead42 View Post
Rychel Vail and Sieloff may not be the core of a championship team but it's 3 solid pieces that can be the foundation of a competitive team for next year. Read what I posted, I never suggested that it was good enough to win a cup. Every season doesn't have to be a black and white, all or nothing proposition. I would be cool with keeping what good players we have, adding to it through recruiting americans and imports for next year, shuffling a few pieces to get the right mix and maybe being a club that can compete. I'm not talking about compete for a cup, I'm talking about compete on a nightly basis and make it worth watching the games. Maybe home ice for the playoffs. That is certainly possible with the assets we have available. To me that is way better than selling them off and tanking for the rest of this year and next and banking on a bunch of kids who may just be maletta and bateman version 2.0.
Ok I was just referencing your initial post when mentioning winning a Memorial Cup. I would only move the top guys if we are talking about kids like DeAngelo, Mistele, Middleton, Garlent etc.. are involved in deals. The only question might be about Middleton but I think he's definitely worth the risk.

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12-30-2012, 09:06 PM
  #513
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A core of Sieloff, Vail, and Rychel could certainly be good enough to content for the Cup if they're given a legitimate supporting cast.

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12-30-2012, 09:28 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
A core of Sieloff, Vail, and Rychel could certainly be good enough to content for the Cup if they're given a legitimate supporting cast.
This is what they said last year about Vail and Rychel and still the same thing this year added with Sieloff. How can you blame others when those players aren't that good and aren't going to give you value in return? Trading Maletta and Bateman isn't going to do anything that's just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. On the other hand dealing a guy like Sieloff or Vail would definitely open eyes and show Rychel isn't messing around and is sending a message. You really think Vail, Rychel, Sieloff would think management is serious if Clarke or Marchese got dealt? Probably not.

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12-30-2012, 09:45 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
This is what they said last year about Vail and Rychel and still the same thing this year added with Sieloff. How can you blame others when those players aren't that good and aren't going to give you value in return? Trading Maletta and Bateman isn't going to do anything that's just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. On the other hand dealing a guy like Sieloff or Vail would definitely open eyes and show Rychel isn't messing around and is sending a message. You really think Vail, Rychel, Sieloff would think management is serious if Clarke or Marchese got dealt? Probably not.
Wait, hold on...

"those players aren't that good"? Rychel has 22 goals, Vail has a point-per-game, and Sieloff has become one of the better D-men in the league. Pretty sure I'm not going to blame them before other 94s and 95s who haven't stepped up.

While dealing those three would send a message, dealing those who are underachieving actually improves the team.

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12-30-2012, 10:14 PM
  #516
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I know his daddy is the GM, but geez... give Rychel a break. He's definitely going first round and deserves to. I love watching him play. Sure he can be a bit slow on the backcheck, but I've also seen him go down and block some shots. Stop worrying about who his dad is.

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12-30-2012, 11:27 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
You're right on the goaltending. My concern is with the roof caving in DeKort won't be ready for next year if they continue to play Pavelka.

Legend in regards to finding help why not look to GB and 93 D Barrett Kaib, he was part of the USDP, dismissed from Providence and now producing with the GB Gamblers. He's never been drafted into the NHL, he would definitely help the Windsor D a clear upgrade on McNaughton, Bateman, Bowen. Arguably more talented than Posa and more ready than Sanvido. Just trying to think outside the box here because there needs to be changes. Kaib could return next year as well and might be a good choice for OA. Doesn't hurt to call.
I'm still stumped as to why they haven't called up Kuchmey who is again, having a great season with Strathroy. In the past 2 years he,s won goaltender of the month, leading all goalies in the league in SV% of .934 (GOJHL point streak)and the only strathroy player to play in the all star game this season. In my opinion he's been playing consistently and playing where Dekort isn't playing or developing at all. He'd be better off playing back jr.B. just a thought.

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12-30-2012, 11:45 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
Wait, hold on...

"those players aren't that good"? Rychel has 22 goals, Vail has a point-per-game, and Sieloff has become one of the better D-men in the league. Pretty sure I'm not going to blame them before other 94s and 95s who haven't stepped up.

While dealing those three would send a message, dealing those who are underachieving actually improves the team.
When i said those other players aren't that good I am talking about the group of players not named Vail, Rychel etc.. How much are you going to get for these other guys? Vail and Rychel have close to 100 games left in their OHL career how much longer can you search for some supporting cast before their time in the OHL runs out?

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12-31-2012, 06:14 AM
  #519
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Go back under your bridge pal. I am betting dollars to donuts that you're the same SimonKnightsman on the NOOF who in December of 2009 said the Spits had zero direction and never win after Boughner sent Mitchell and Cundari home after a poor performance against Kitchener and that it's no way to treat players. Just admit that as a London fan you're relishing this and jumping for joy. This is the exact garbage others were pointing to earlier in the week when a London fan dropped in. Sorry Libbs I know you said other fans are welcomed but this stuff above is exactly what I don't like. OHLTG maybe you can have beers and eat some wings with Simon how does that sound?
So you didn't even read my post ?

Everything in it is just repeated from what spit fans have already wrote.

or did I misread everything ...cuz you also wrote some of the facts I was going off of .

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12-31-2012, 08:23 AM
  #520
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I'm still stumped as to why they haven't called up Kuchmey who is again, having a great season with Strathroy. In the past 2 years he,s won goaltender of the month, leading all goalies in the league in SV% of .934 (GOJHL point streak)and the only strathroy player to play in the all star game this season. In my opinion he's been playing consistently and playing where Dekort isn't playing or developing at all. He'd be better off playing back jr.B. just a thought.
IMHO Kuchmey outplayed DeKort in pre-season last year and this year. I'm a big fan BUT he wasn't drafted in the 2nd round and he doesn't have the size that's wanted in today's goalies. Perhaps when Jan 10th rolls around there'll be a spot for him here or on another OHL team.

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12-31-2012, 08:49 AM
  #521
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When i said those other players aren't that good I am talking about the group of players not named Vail, Rychel etc..
Really, because...

Quote:
This is what they said last year about Vail and Rychel and still the same thing this year added with Sieloff. How can you blame others when those players aren't that good and aren't going to give you value in return?
sounds like you're blaming the three mentioned core players.

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12-31-2012, 09:02 AM
  #522
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I read it as "others" meaning supporting cast. They wouldnt bring you much back to kick start rebuild is the message I took from it. I maybe wrong thou

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12-31-2012, 09:21 AM
  #523
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Another game and another shelling, I know Plymouth has been slumping as of late but this should be a walk over game for them...and more then likely Dekort will get the start. I'm going to say 7-4 Whalers and that's being nice. Hope WR is having a fun time up in his press box watching this circus go on, I know I'm having a good laugh at how pathetic this team is.....


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12-31-2012, 09:31 AM
  #524
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Really, because...



sounds like you're blaming the three mentioned core players.
Ares seemed to understand it and you couldn't?

Yeah Boughner after the game was blaming the younger guys for not developing that's where blaming others comes into play.

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12-31-2012, 09:32 AM
  #525
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I know his daddy is the GM, but geez... give Rychel a break. He's definitely going first round and deserves to. I love watching him play. Sure he can be a bit slow on the backcheck, but I've also seen him go down and block some shots. Stop worrying about who his dad is.
I wouldn't be so sure he's going to be a first rounder. Scouts look at more than just a stat sheet, and Kerby's opportunistic/right-place-right-time goals will mostly disappear at higher levels where the defenceman makes the right play nearly all the time and are big enough to move him around/away.

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