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Old
12-30-2012, 04:51 PM
  #51
derriko
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I would only give Redden another chance on a two way. He may take that over some better deals since hes familiar with us and treated him well while he was here. We didnt have him during his bad time so people still love him here.

I think Ballard would be a good stop gap assuming he gets bought out or amnestied to replace Cowen for this year and possibly next if Boro doesnt pick his game up. A Phillips - Ballard pair would be a decent shut down pair.

Ps- I would kill to get Volchenkov back. Im hoping he gets amnestied though, because he will have a hard decline due to his playstyle (if he already hasnt which is arguable)

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12-30-2012, 04:56 PM
  #52
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Again, I'm pretty sure the buyouts will be in the summer. The cap will be $70M no matter what for this season. So the buyouts would only be necessary for 2013-14 when the cap goes down.

So a bought out player to replace Cowen is a no go.

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12-30-2012, 04:57 PM
  #53
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You can't underestimate the influence that a veteran D like Redden could have on the team, especially with such a young core.

I believe he could still be an NHL caliber defenseman. Half of you guys think Carkner is a top 4 guy for gods sake.

Redden as a #6 would be fine with me. The problem with Redden has been his price tag. He's not a $6 Million man anymore. He's not a top 4 guy anymore.

He would be good for depth, veteran experience and leadership roles.

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12-30-2012, 05:00 PM
  #54
Legend Killer
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Id take Redden back as a bottom pairing guy. Let him get to 1000 games... Feel good story

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12-30-2012, 05:58 PM
  #55
Qward
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Redden was a +player every year with the exception of 1 with us. Even then, he was a minus 1.

Mandy just doesn't want him back because as soon as a player hits 30 he is dead in Mandy's eyes.

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12-30-2012, 06:32 PM
  #56
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Care to repeat?.
Lehner absolutely needed more time in the AHL. Even this year, Lehner NEEDED to spend time in the AHL. He needed it. He needed to tart games. Look at how he's doing? He's dominating. He needed one solid year of dominant play in the AHL. He needed the confidence. He needed to show the consistency. He's doing that now. We had no idea the lockout would go into January. Bishop provided the insurance we needed to let Lehner develop properly. He would be the NHL backup, and give Lehner the time he needed to have that year long stretch of play that would really separate him from the pack. I think if Lehner is in the NHL this year as a backup, and isn't allowed to really shine as an everyday starter, it really, REALLY hurts his development.

I don't give a **** about Lehner as a backup goalie
. Like, not even a little. He's not a backup. I care about him as our next starting goalie. And to that effect, I want to give him every chance and every opportunity to be the best starter he can be... and in my mind that absolutely includes starting as many games as possible. Bishop lets him do that, at the moment. He's a huge reason why Lehner is dominating right now, IMO: a kick in the arse to motivate him, as well as (if the lockout hadn't happened) allow him to start a ton of games in the AHL.

Goalies develop by starting games when they're young. Not by riding the pine as an NHL backup. I'm 150% behind the Bishop trade, even if he never plays another game for us.

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12-30-2012, 06:37 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
You can't underestimate the influence that a veteran D like Redden could have on the team, especially with such a young core.

I believe he could still be an NHL caliber defenseman. Half of you guys think Carkner is a top 4 guy for gods sake.

Redden as a #6 would be fine with me. The problem with Redden has been his price tag. He's not a $6 Million man anymore. He's not a top 4 guy anymore.

He would be good for depth, veteran experience and leadership roles.
Absolutely this. I think Redden is MORE than fine as a #6. And if, as Mandy says, Weircioch DOES outplay him, then he becomes a fantastic #7: a veteran who does nothing but add to the dressing room, add to the leadership, add everything you want of a guy who no doubt ill be happy just to be in NHL buildings again, and will do everything he can to stay there.

Listen: we need another defenceman. It's all fine and dandy to say Weircioch can handle the minutes, but we are one injury away from EASILY having the worst defence in the league. We need depth. I don't care HOW we get that depth but we need it. Be it Redden, or someone else, we will be adding a defenceman before the season ends (pending an actual season is played)

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12-30-2012, 06:49 PM
  #58
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Gave up a 2nd rounder in a very deep draft for a backup goalie when there are already 2 better goalies in the organization.

I'm just so confused.
Because Bishop was much better than Lehner last year.

We complain about no goalie depth. We complain about goalie depth. Fans in Ottawa are ridiculous.

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12-30-2012, 06:51 PM
  #59
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And really...Redden? Has that man not single handedly eliminated us from the playoffs enough times?

Getting Redden back would be the worst decision this franchise has made since deciding to keep him.

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12-30-2012, 07:12 PM
  #60
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And really...Redden? Has that man not single handedly eliminated us from the playoffs enough times?

Getting Redden back would be the worst decision this franchise has made since deciding to keep him.
Dude, it's not like he'd be getting important minutes. Wade Redden isn't any worse than any other "borderline healthy scratch" defenceman out there that we could bring in on a cheap 1 year deal.

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12-30-2012, 07:22 PM
  #61
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I can't think of any moment that Wade Redden caused the Senators to be eliminated from the playoffs.

Maybe you are thinking of the Devils series in 2003? That is just something that happens in hockey. Redden and Rachunek got crossed up, Havlat let Friesen go, and Lalime was crap.

How that pass got through Redden's feet is just pure dumb luck.

I remember Wade scoring an OT winner against Philly too, so he wasn't all that bad. In fact he was pretty damn good for a while.

Anyway, that is not the guy we are talking about the possibility of re-acquiring here.

This move, aside from the obvious ties that Redden has to the team and community, would be similar to us picking up Curtis Leschyshyn, Grant Ledyard, Luke Richardson...

You see what I'm getting at? A veteran guy, best days behind him, but can still contribute and help lead a young team.

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12-30-2012, 07:31 PM
  #62
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Count me in on bringing back Redden as a #5/6 D man. He could get his 1000 games with the SENS, be a veteran for the young guys, and hopefully fix the negative image of him he has right now. Obviously this is all contingent on a cheaper salary and him....moving on from his favourite cola

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12-30-2012, 07:35 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Redden is an AHL d-man. He sucks. He can't play in the NHL. Wiercioch is a much better player at this point, but you have him sitting


One has played just under 1k nhl games and one has played 8.

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12-30-2012, 08:07 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Lehner absolutely needed more time in the AHL. Even this year, Lehner NEEDED to spend time in the AHL. He needed it. He needed to tart games. Look at how he's doing? He's dominating. He needed one solid year of dominant play in the AHL. He needed the confidence. He needed to show the consistency. He's doing that now. We had no idea the lockout would go into January. Bishop provided the insurance we needed to let Lehner develop properly. He would be the NHL backup, and give Lehner the time he needed to have that year long stretch of play that would really separate him from the pack. I think if Lehner is in the NHL this year as a backup, and isn't allowed to really shine as an everyday starter, it really, REALLY hurts his development.

I don't give a **** about Lehner as a backup goalie
. Like, not even a little. He's not a backup. I care about him as our next starting goalie. And to that effect, I want to give him every chance and every opportunity to be the best starter he can be... and in my mind that absolutely includes starting as many games as possible. Bishop lets him do that, at the moment. He's a huge reason why Lehner is dominating right now, IMO: a kick in the arse to motivate him, as well as (if the lockout hadn't happened) allow him to start a ton of games in the AHL.

Goalies develop by starting games when they're young. Not by riding the pine as an NHL backup. I'm 150% behind the Bishop trade, even if he never plays another game for us.
Lehner has played lights out from game 1 of the season and he is the primary reason the BSens are having a great start.

IMO he didn't need more time in the AHL, but playing a lot definitely doesn't hurt him.

If the NHL starts in January the Sens have an interesting decision to make regarding their goaltenders. The easy decision is Anderson and Bishop, but I'm not convinced its the best way forward.

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12-30-2012, 08:16 PM
  #65
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One has played just under 1k nhl games and one has played 8.
Using this logic Karlsson wouldn't be playing yet.

T. Murray said PW is ready for the NHL now, I couldn't agree more.

Redden also hasn't played a game this year, so PW, Boro, Gryba or Benoit would all be better choices.

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12-30-2012, 08:16 PM
  #66
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Lehner has played lights out from game 1 of the season and he is the primary reason the BSens are having a great start.

IMO he didn't need more time in the AHL, but playing a lot definitely doesn't hurt him.

If the NHL starts in January the Sens have an interesting decision to make regarding their goaltenders. The easy decision is Anderson and Bishop, but I'm not convinced its the best way forward.
To start the season, it is. Bishop will get us at least a 2nd back at the deadline if we're shopping him, IMO. Lehner can back Andy up for the playoffs.

Worst case scenario: we rented Bishop for a year and it will have cost us essentially nothing.

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12-30-2012, 08:29 PM
  #67
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Put me also in the camp of bringing Redden back as #5/6/7. I have no idea whatsoever how good or bad he is right now, but 1m or less would work.

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12-30-2012, 08:34 PM
  #68
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Dude, it's not like he'd be getting important minutes. Wade Redden isn't any worse than any other "borderline healthy scratch" defenceman out there that we could bring in on a cheap 1 year deal.
Redden is done, sad because he was a integral part of some very good Sens teams, but years of being the target of vicious forechecks have left him slowed and injury prone.

While I personally would like to see him get his 1000 games in the NHL, I really don't believe the Sens should bring him back at any price.

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12-30-2012, 08:41 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
To start the season, it is. Bishop will get us at least a 2nd back at the deadline if we're shopping him, IMO. Lehner can back Andy up for the playoffs.

Worst case scenario: we rented Bishop for a year and it will have cost us essentially nothing.
Murray has preached to these kids, if they earn it and force him to make changes he will do so.

Lehner has definitely make it clear he is better than Bishop and might just be better than Anderson. Why wait, Murray should make a move.

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12-30-2012, 08:47 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
To start the season, it is. Bishop will get us at least a 2nd back at the deadline if we're shopping him, IMO. Lehner can back Andy up for the playoffs.

Worst case scenario: we rented Bishop for a year and it will have cost us essentially nothing.
Really, eh? We got him for a second-rounder in a moment of relative panic and in a small bidding war and it's not like he's gotten any younger or been increasing his value that much. Closer to UFA as well.

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12-30-2012, 09:37 PM
  #71
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Please tell me what prospect hole that 2nd rounder would have flushed out?

We're honestly set for prospect depth. Flipping a 2nd for Bishop was a reasonable decision. Gave us some flexibility in net at a time when most here were complaining that Auld was ****.

At any rate, this is all about Lehner developing. He'll knock off Bishop for the backup role first, then split a season or two with Andy before finally taking the reigns. No need to rush to trade either Andy or Bishop.

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12-30-2012, 10:05 PM
  #72
sg58
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Please tell me what prospect hole that 2nd rounder would have flushed out?

We're honestly set for prospect depth. Flipping a 2nd for Bishop was a reasonable decision. Gave us some flexibility in net at a time when most here were complaining that Auld was ****.

At any rate, this is all about Lehner developing. He'll knock off Bishop for the backup role first, then split a season or two with Andy before finally taking the reigns. No need to rush to trade either Andy or Bishop.
A 2nd rounder is what, a 50-50 chance to become an NHLer? If even that. But it's still not something that should just be thrown about. I don't mind the trade, but it's certainly not a no-brainer that it was a good move. Lehner could've been brought up, or a cheaper option could've been brought in. Stars come out of the second round every year.

And how can anyone ever be "set" with a prospect pool?

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12-30-2012, 11:16 PM
  #73
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if we use a 2nd rounder in a weak draft to get a 2nd rounder in a strong draft and some good play from Bishop then I call that a victory.

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12-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #74
John Holmes*
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No need to trade Bishop. Just leave him in Binghamton.

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12-30-2012, 11:40 PM
  #75
CanadianHockey
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A 2nd rounder is what, a 50-50 chance to become an NHLer? If even that. But it's still not something that should just be thrown about. I don't mind the trade, but it's certainly not a no-brainer that it was a good move. Lehner could've been brought up, or a cheaper option could've been brought in. Stars come out of the second round every year.

And how can anyone ever be "set" with a prospect pool?
We're set in the sense that we've got depth in our cupboard at all positions, so moving a few futures for assets that can have an immediate impact (like a 2nd for Bishop) is a reasonable course of action. Especially when that future is a 2nd round pick in a draft that many think was less deep than normal.

I'm in no way trying to say second rounders are meaningless, or that we can just stop drafting now because we've got depth in the cupboard.

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