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Old
12-30-2012, 06:58 PM
  #76
Benny FTW
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12-30-2012, 07:01 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Why would teams wait to start defending Karlsson?
I just think you will have more teams ready to defend against him(especially on the PP). Sure teams probably developed gameplans against him this year but I think they will be more properly prepared to go up against him in the future

Just look at the gamelogs

http://senators.nhl.com/club/player....2&view=gamelog

The Rangers found a way to hold him to 1 point in 7 playoff games(give credit to the rangers defensive system which was one of the best last year)

12 points in last 17 games which is still good but considerably less PPG average then his season average

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Ill take the player that projects to be the better player over time than right away.
Couturier was injured, maybe that's a reason why you didn't draft him

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
do you know tvasport ? they had a contract last season with the sens to present the games in french,
So just say you watched 82+ games last year of Karlsson
Quote:
and I didn't say Karlsson was bad/ordinary, I said he was borderline good ( defensively )
The guy was border line good when he was an all star for the first time. Last season he took a step and is at least ordinary when compared to other top pairing Dmen.
Quote:
and Spezza is a really great player, that helped a lot to put some points but I have to admit that 70 pts
80pts. Sure Spezza is good, but with the way he's thrown it it sounds as if he was Karlsson's partner. Karlsson plays with the entire team.

Quote:
Dont get me wrong Karlsson is a great Dman but I value tavares more.
Their worth are the same. We're fine with undoubtedly the best offensive dman in the game today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Couturier was injured, maybe that's a reason why you didn't draft him
Sens are no stranger to drafting injured players (Cowen). It was for other reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I just think you will have more teams ready to defend against him(especially on the PP)
...
The Rangers found a way to hold him to 1 point in 7 playoff games(give credit to the rangers defensive system which was one of the best last year)
...
12 points in last 17 games which is still good but considerably less PPG average then his season average
Especially on the PP? Good, he gets his points away from the PP (he's unique in this respect)
You can ask NYR what they thought of him in the playoffs. They became big fan of him, for scoring 1 point? No, they watched him play.
Looking at a small stretch of games? Come on.


Last edited by HavlatMach9: 12-30-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 07:11 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
There's not a single player in the world I would trade Karlsson for.

Crosby has health concerns.
Malkin is closing in on UFA.
Stamkos, Tavares, Giroux, etc. aren't that much better offensively to justify trading Karlsson for them.


So I would love to hear who are these 6 players.
Crosby=Best Player in the world
Malkin =Reigning MVP
Stamkos=60 goals and wayyy more offense than Karlsson
i would take Weber,Doughty, and Pietrangelo before Karlsson going forward. Only reason I dont take Chara is since hes 35.

It is widely known Weber has been shafted the last few years for the Norris. Him and Chara are the best D in the game right now. Doughty and Pietrangelo are young D that play a complete game that Karlsson doesnt. Just look at doughty's dominance in the playoffs last year...you know where the games really mean something.

Karlsson disappeared the moment people started laying it all out on the line to block shots, and didn't have the defensive capabilities or mean streak that Petro and Doughty both have to remain a force in the playoffs. I have just listed 3 defensemen I would take before Karlsson. Nevermined the handfull of forwards that are worth way more than him. Plus the odd goalie or 2. And you say you wouldnt trade him for anyone in the world...take off your homer glasses

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:12 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
So just say you watched 82+ games last year of Karlsson

The guy was border line good when he was an all star for the first time. Last season he took a step and is at least ordinary when compared to other top pairing Dmen.

80pts. Sure Spezza is good, but with the way he's thrown it it sounds as if he was Karlsson's partner. Karlsson plays with the entire team.


Their worth are the same. We're fine with undoubtedly the best offensive dman in the game today.

Sens are no stranger to drafting injured players (Cowen). It was for other reasons.
whatever I say you will always contradict cuz your heart is with the sens and it impairs your judgment

btw Green wasn't OV partner too

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:18 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Especially on the PP? Good, he gets his points away from the PP (he's unique in this respect)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...scoringLeaders

Says Karlsson was the 7th best player in terms of generating offense on the Power Play.

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:23 PM
  #83
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you knew green was nominated for the norris few years ago ?

I prefer karlsson over green theres no question but I would like him more if he was a lil bit better densively, anyway we will see in few years how he will become, maybe he's another Lidstrom, who know ? but right now I prefer tavares over him.

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:24 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...scoringLeaders

Says Karlsson was the 7th best player in terms of generating offense on the Power Play.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...iewName=points

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:27 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by KidLine93 View Post
Crosby=Best Player in the world
Malkin =Reigning MVP
Stamkos=60 goals and wayyy more offense than Karlsson
i would take Weber,Doughty, and Pietrangelo before Karlsson going forward. Only reason I dont take Chara is since hes 35.

It is widely known Weber has been shafted the last few years for the Norris. Him and Chara are the best D in the game right now. Doughty and Pietrangelo are young D that play a complete game that Karlsson doesnt. Just look at doughty's dominance in the playoffs last year...you know where the games really mean something.

Karlsson disappeared the moment people started laying it all out on the line to block shots, and didn't have the defensive capabilities or mean streak that Petro and Doughty both have to remain a force in the playoffs. I have just listed 3 defensemen I would take before Karlsson. Nevermined the handfull of forwards that are worth way more than him. Plus the odd goalie or 2. And you say you wouldnt trade him for anyone in the world...take off your homer glasses
Take off the delusional glasses. There is so much wrong its kinda funny. Do you watch anything beyond stats?

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
So overall he was 11th, in terms of PP he was 7th best, in terms of even strength points he was 26th. Doesn't that prove that the Powerplay does help his scoring a bit?

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:36 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
So overall he was 11th, in terms of PP he was 7th best, in terms of even strength points he was 26th. Doesn't that prove that the Powerplay does help his scoring a bit?
Karlsson's ES points = 50. 2nd in defenseman scoring = 53. Karlsson with 0 PP minutes still finishes 5th in defensemen scoring, only 3 points behind the leader.

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12-30-2012, 07:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Karlsson's ES points = 50. 2nd in defenseman scoring = 53. Karlsson with 0 PP minutes still finishes 5th in defensemen scoring, only 3 points behind the leader.
The guy I was responding to said that Karlsson power play points isn't that significant. I would say getting 1 out of every 3 points on the PP and being the 7th best PP point producer is significant

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:40 PM
  #89
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I will get a lot of hate for this but, at the end of the day a top centre will always be more valuable and harder to replace than an offensive defenseman. Take it from a leafs fan

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:44 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RealisticLeaf55 View Post
I will get a lot of hate for this but, at the end of the day a top centre will always be more valuable and harder to replace than an offensive defenseman. Take it from a leafs fan
Ottawa is going to have a hard time replacing EK for centuries to come (an offensive dman). What you say is true though (laughably true for the Leafs). Karlsson is the only offensive D that would give you pause but definitely center every time.

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:47 PM
  #91
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I just want to remind everyone that this is not a pissing contest. I KNOW that Tavares is EVERYTHING to NYI but let me remind you that this is an online forum where trades are brought up here or else where would we be able to bring em up.

A future top pairing defender, future top 6(or more) in Zibanejad, proven 30 goal scorer, 1st round pick in deep draft.

That makes NYI better, especially if Zibanejad becomes a 70 point 2 way center. However, Tavares is already proven now and he is the only thing keeping that franchise afloat.

It's a good proposal and the value is definitely there, IMO, due to Lehner being added in but in reality will never happen unless some disagreement between Tavares happens or something anytime soon.

Someone posted these:
Neidereitter + Strome + Nielsen + 2014 1st for Karlsson
Moulson+Hamonic+Strome+2013 1st for karlsson

They dont help the Sens in anyway. Nor do they come close to value.

Michalek>=Moulson
Cowen>Hamonic
Zibanejad=<Strome
Lehner>>>>>>>>>>>?
1st=1st

We have all the pieces you are giving us. We offer better rounded pieces to improve your goaltending, your defense and add two top 6ers. One is not as proven but could be better than Michalek.

With all this being said, I don't do this trade. Nope. Lehner will be too important for Ottawa, as will Cowen. Tavares would be phenomenal but we need the pieces just as much.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:04 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I just want to remind everyone that this is not a pissing contest. I KNOW that Tavares is EVERYTHING to NYI but let me remind you that this is an online forum where trades are brought up here or else where would we be able to bring em up.

A future top pairing defender, future top 6(or more) in Zibanejad, proven 30 goal scorer, 1st round pick in deep draft.

That makes NYI better, especially if Zibanejad becomes a 70 point 2 way center. However, Tavares is already proven now and he is the only thing keeping that franchise afloat.

It's a good proposal and the value is definitely there, IMO, due to Lehner being added in but in reality will never happen unless some disagreement between Tavares happens or something anytime soon.

Someone posted these:
Neidereitter + Strome + Nielsen + 2014 1st for Karlsson
Moulson+Hamonic+Strome+2013 1st for karlsson

They dont help the Sens in anyway. Nor do they come close to value.

Michalek>=Moulson
Cowen>Hamonic
Zibanejad=<Strome
Lehner>>>>>>>>>>>?
1st=1st

We have all the pieces you are giving us. We offer better rounded pieces to improve your goaltending, your defense and add two top 6ers. One is not as proven but could be better than Michalek.

With all this being said, I don't do this trade. Nope. Lehner will be too important for Ottawa, as will Cowen. Tavares would be phenomenal but we need the pieces just as much.
I'd be pissed if Snow made either of the above trades for karlsson. No interest in wildly overpaying for him.
I'll take Moulson and his 3 straight seasons, of at least 30 goals on acheap contract, over Michalek.
Last month an opposing scout described Hamonic as a beast, in an Elliott Freidman article. If other fans don't know how well he's developing, that's on them.
While I like Zibanejad's potential, I also like Strome's. No need to flip them.
Lehner's the only piece offered, who I'd want over the NYI youngsters.


As for Tavares... the Isles are scheduled to move into Barclays Center in 2015. Ratner is working with Nassau County pols, trying to come up with a plan for the Nassau Coliseum land, so the isles can wiggle out of their lease early.

Wang has 100 luxury suites to sell and Tavares will be heavily hyped as the face of the franchise. A player that even casual and non-hockey fans have heard of and will be encouraged to come check out.


Last edited by CREW99AW: 12-30-2012 at 08:10 PM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 08:06 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I just want to remind everyone that this is not a pissing contest. I KNOW that Tavares is EVERYTHING to NYI but let me remind you that this is an online forum where trades are brought up here or else where would we be able to bring em up.

A future top pairing defender, future top 6(or more) in Zibanejad, proven 30 goal scorer, 1st round pick in deep draft.

That makes NYI better, especially if Zibanejad becomes a 70 point 2 way center. However, Tavares is already proven now and he is the only thing keeping that franchise afloat.

It's a good proposal and the value is definitely there, IMO, due to Lehner being added in but in reality will never happen unless some disagreement between Tavares happens or something anytime soon.

Someone posted these:
Neidereitter + Strome + Nielsen + 2014 1st for Karlsson
Moulson+Hamonic+Strome+2013 1st for karlsson

They dont help the Sens in anyway. Nor do they come close to value.

Michalek>=Moulson
Cowen>Hamonic
Zibanejad=<Strome
Lehner>>>>>>>>>>>?
1st=1st

We have all the pieces you are giving us. We offer better rounded pieces to improve your goaltending, your defense and add two top 6ers. One is not as proven but could be better than Michalek.

With all this being said, I don't do this trade. Nope. Lehner will be too important for Ottawa, as will Cowen. Tavares would be phenomenal but we need the pieces just as much.
it is too much of (maybe) for one of the best center in the league

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:14 PM
  #94
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The guy I was responding to said that Karlsson power play points isn't that significant. I would say getting 1 out of every 3 points on the PP and being the 7th best PP point producer is significant
All stars get a lot of points on the PP. He was 7th best IN THE NHL at points on the PP.... and BY FAR the best defenceman in the NHL at ES in points... and finished 11th IN THE NHL as a D-MAN in points.

Karlsson is an offensive force. He produces offence like no other defenceman can come close to right now. Like no defenceman has since the days of Leetch and Bourque and MacInnis and Coffey.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:20 PM
  #95
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All stars get a lot of points on the PP. He was 7th best IN THE NHL at points on the PP.... and BY FAR the best defenceman in the NHL at ES in points... and finished 11th IN THE NHL as a D-MAN in points.

Karlsson is an offensive force. He produces offence like no other defenceman can come close to right now. Like no defenceman has since the days of Leetch and Bourque and MacInnis and Coffey.
Are you forgetting Green and Lidstrom, who have combined for 4 seasons over 70 points since the lockout with Lidstrom reaching 80, and Green being on pace for over 82 in both his seasons?

Karlsson's offense was outstanding last season, but its not like he changed the game or anything.


Last edited by bleedblue1223: 12-30-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 08:31 PM
  #96
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As a Sens fan I am embarrased by this.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:41 PM
  #97
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Are you forgetting Green and Lidstrom, who have combined for 4 seasons over 70 points since the lockout with Lidstrom reaching 80, and Green being on pace for over 82 in both his seasons?

Karlsson's offense was outstanding last season, but its not like he changed the game or anything.
They were in higher scoring seasons. Just sayin'.

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:03 PM
  #98
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They were in higher scoring seasons. Just sayin'.
Same era, not that much difference in overall play.

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:22 PM
  #99
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As a Sens fan I am embarrased by this.
Oh c'mon, you've been here long enough to expect these kind of things. I don't even bother getting embarrassed anymore.

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:29 PM
  #100
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Five pages of splitting hairs about who's more valuable. Sheesh.

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