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Mark Scheifele for Phil Kessel

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:41 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Also QFT, but unfortunately Sweech, I think very few on the Leafs side are listening the reasoning regarding why this trade doesn't make sense for Winnipeg (or for the Leafs, for that matter).
They're mostly just having their own "leaf fan" discussion amongst themselves.

Then they wonder why other fan bases hate them.

But seriously 10 pages just from this? Come on now...

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12-29-2012, 05:45 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
It really doesn't matter... a contract will be negotiated prior to the trade. An extension for an RFA or an UFA doesn't change anything other than perhaps market value. Shea Weber kind of threw that out the door though.
Actually it does a lot. One team will pay you that much, that means if you wait until UFA period, the same team will pay you that much then 29 other teams have the opportunity to at least match and improve upon that offer.

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Just like the Jays with Dickey, you work out a trade that you can agree upon and then give the team a certain time frame to work out an extension.
Dickey had a whole year left on his deal, and the Jays not only payed a handsome sum in prospects but also the same the Mets were offering in contract terms.

Not the same at all.

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12-29-2012, 05:46 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Also QFT, but unfortunately Sweech, I think very few on the Leafs side are listening the reasoning regarding why this trade doesn't make sense for Winnipeg (or for the Leafs, for that matter).
I listened.

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12-29-2012, 05:50 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Actually it does a lot. One team will pay you that much, that means if you wait until UFA period, the same team will pay you that much then 29 other teams have the opportunity to at least match and improve upon that offer.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Trading a guy with a full year left on his deal while allowing the team to negotiate a contract has nothing to do with 29 other teams. Chances are the leafs trading Kessel would mean he doesn't want to sign here, you work out a trade with a team he's willing to sign with and he's not going stick out an entire year and stiff a team for no reason. He signs the deal he likes with a team he's happy going to and that's that.

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Dickey had a whole year left on his deal, and the Jays not only payed a handsome sum in prospects but also the same the Mets were offering in contract terms.

Not the same at all.
Kessel has a whole year left on his deal and the Leafs would be receiving a handsome sum... it is exactly the same.

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12-29-2012, 05:58 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I listened.
Which is why I said very few, and not none. There's been some good discussion, but there have also been a lot of drive-by, didn't read the whole thread type of "Kessel's better than Scheifele, you'd be crazy not to trade for Kessel" comments as well. Those type of comments don't take into account the reasoning behind not wanting to do this trade as a Jets fan.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:59 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yeah well assuming restricted contact rules take a player until 26 the Jets are basically guaranteed to have Scheifele until then.

Kessel is only guaranteed until 2013-14.

We don't know what Kessel wants or will do.

The Bruins even thought they'd have him for 7+ years but he flaked out.
How is Scheifele guarantueed to stay in the Peg until he is 26, but on the other side, Kessel 'flaked' (Even though he wanted to sign there, but with Bruins needing to sign a few others, couldn't fit him) on Bruins?

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12-29-2012, 06:22 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Trading a guy with a full year left on his deal while allowing the team to negotiate a contract has nothing to do with 29 other teams. Chances are the leafs trading Kessel would mean he doesn't want to sign here, you work out a trade with a team he's willing to sign with and he's not going stick out an entire year and stiff a team for no reason. He signs the deal he likes with a team he's happy going to and that's that.
Yes it does. If one team is willing to pay that price, who's to say 29 other teams won't match that same price, if not beat it plus give the player the option of which team to play for, Winnipeg be damned?

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Kessel has a whole year left on his deal and the Leafs would be receiving a handsome sum... it is exactly the same.
No it is not. When was the last time a sign and trade (if any) has been completed under the NHLPA's current Fehr-less system?

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12-29-2012, 06:28 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes it does. If one team is willing to pay that price, who's to say 29 other teams won't match that same price, if not beat it plus give the player the option of which team to play for, Winnipeg be damned?
No it doesn't... this isn't a situation of a deadline deal. He has a year and a half left. You look at trade options, allow the team a chance to sign him, if he doesn't sign the deal doesn't go through. You then find another trade with a team he will sign with and it doesn't have to be for a bargain. Who said it had to be Winnipeg? All I said was Kessel would bring back far more than Scheifele.

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No it is not. When was the last time a sign and trade (if any) has been completed under the NHLPA's current Fehr-less system?
One just happened at the draft... Jordan Staal. 1 year left, pending UFA, traded to Carolina pending an extension.

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12-29-2012, 06:28 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes it does. If one team is willing to pay that price, who's to say 29 other teams won't match that same price, if not beat it plus give the player the option of which team to play for, Winnipeg be damned?



No it is not. When was the last time a sign and trade (if any) has been completed under the NHLPA's current Fehr-less system?
He is talking about sending Kessel to a team he would sign with.

Heatley.

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12-29-2012, 07:01 PM
  #260
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Not bothering reading this thread. @ op's proposal: "lol".

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12-29-2012, 07:11 PM
  #261
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How did this thread even get this long? Scheifele will be lucky to be as good as Kessel. Typical HF overrating prospects over proven, already elite talent.

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12-29-2012, 11:22 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
How did this thread even get this long? Scheifele will be lucky to be as good as Kessel. Typical HF overrating prospects over proven, already elite talent.
No one, that I've read, has overvalued Scheifele. Because, this is not a Scheifele vs Kessel thread. It's about trading a proven goal scoring star with one year left on his contract for a young center prospect and a some picks.

If the Leafs management figures they should rebuild, then trading Kessel is a good idea. I just don't think Winnipeg makes a good trading partner for Toronto at this point, they're not a contending team. One year, potentially, of Kessel at this point in the Jets progress is not worth as much as seven years of Scheifele or a first round pick.

If the Leafs trade Kessel, it'll be like when another lottery team, the Blue Jackets, traded Nash to the Rangers. A team that almost won the Presidents Trophy and felt they could make some noise in the playoffs.

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12-30-2012, 04:29 AM
  #263
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Kessel is a UFA after next year. Winnipeg doesn't strike me as a place he would choose over all other teams that would be interested. Bad for Winnipeg.

The only thing dumber than trading what Burke traded for Kessel was giving him only a 5 year contract.

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12-30-2012, 04:44 PM
  #264
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This doesn't work on many levels, as has been discussed before. Looking at the stats, Toronto needs some pretty serious help on the PK. 5th least PK time, but 6th worst PK GA. PK% is 3rd worst. Imagine if that PK time increases next year, you could be looking at 70+ PK goals against. Toronto would be better off going after Burmistrov from the Jets. 3rd line C with 2nd line or higher potential, on the last year of his ELC this season. Kid is absolutely dynamite as the forechecker on a PK. He is probably one of the best players in the league to draw a penalty on the PK.

We need a #1C just as bad as you guys. The value isn't there to trade that potential away for a season with a winger. 7 years of Scheifele even if he doesn't pan out more than a #2C is far more valuable to us than one year of Kessel.

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12-30-2012, 04:50 PM
  #265
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No way to the OP.

Maybe Scheifele + Trouba + 2nd and you're talking.

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12-30-2012, 04:50 PM
  #266
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Whether Burke is able to sign Perry or not I think it would stupid of the Leafs to trade Kessel for Scheifele. A proven player entering his prime coming off a career year for a player who has yet to play and prove at the pro level, nothing against Scheifele he could turn out to be a great impact player and be that C the Leafs have been coveting for, but again its a gamble and such a trade would only mean Leafs are rebuilding again because I doubt Scheifele will have a significant impact on the Leafs atleast for another two years.

If the Leafs ever did decide to trade Kessel, they should get proven assets in return not unproven prospects and picks.

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12-30-2012, 04:58 PM
  #267
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if im burke you know i laugh at this joke proposal you know.

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12-30-2012, 05:32 PM
  #268
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I can see this thread turning bad quickly and I'll tell you why. We need a #1C more than you do. You guys have Grabovski and Bozak, and they're both better than our current first line C Bryan Little. They both had better production and FO %'s (~52% vs. 49.6%). On top of that you have Kadri in the wings, who may or may not pan out. So your guys Center position has much more depth than we do.

So this talk about being insulted that we're not interested in Kessel for Scheifele ++ is just baloney. It's just not something that interests us. Yes Kessel is a dynamite player - very exciting to watch - but to trade Scheifele for him leaves us with a much larger hole at C than you guys have currently.

How about we make a counter proposal:

Scrivens and Reimer for Kane and Bogosian

Preposterous you say? It does seem to be a theme in this thread, starting with the OP...

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12-30-2012, 05:35 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
I can see this thread turning bad quickly and I'll tell you why. We need a #1C more than you do. You guys have Grabovski and Bozak, and they're both better than our current first line C Bryan Little. They both had better production and FO %'s (~52% vs. 49.6%). On top of that you have Kadri in the wings, who may or may not pan out. So your guys Center position has much more depth than we do.

So this talk about being insulted that we're not interested in Kessel for Scheifele ++ is just baloney. It's just not something that interests us. Yes Kessel is a dynamite player - very exciting to watch - but to trade Scheifele for him leaves us with a much larger hole at C than you guys have currently.

How about we make a counter proposal:

Scrivens and Reimer for Kane and Bogosian

Preposterous you say? It does seem to be a theme in this thread, starting with the OP...
I'd do it lol

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12-30-2012, 05:57 PM
  #270
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In the interest of keeping this conversation going, I'm going to throw out the Jets needs:

- The most important would be that #1C
- LHD, perferably puck moving, but doesn't need to have a dynamite shot.
- 3rd line RW, puck posession with some offensive instincts to pair with Antropov and Ponikarovsky

For assets:

- We have all of our picks in the 2013 draft, Chicagos 2nd and 3rd, and pick #59 for not signing Daulton Leveille.

- We have a glut of 2nd/3rd line C, including Wellwood (who played 2nd line wing and had a career high 47 pts), Little, Burmistrov, and Antropov. Burmistrov is fantastic on the PK like I said previously. He's the most likely trade bait, with Antropov right behind him probably at the trade deadline.

- We have at least 5 shooting/offensive RHD in the system. Byfuglien, Bogosian, Postma, Trouba, Redmond. I could see Redmond or Postma being offered as trade bait. Postma just signed a 1-way and Redmond is down at the farm, but deserves a shot.

- The past two years the Jets seemed to have picked a lot of steals. Yuen (good +/- LHD), Lowry (6'5" LW 6th in WHL scoring), Kosmachuk (RW great sniper)

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12-30-2012, 07:53 PM
  #271
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Give Kessel a first line center and watch magic fly. He's still young himself, why would they do this deal?

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12-30-2012, 08:04 PM
  #272
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Are you kidding me OP? Leafs would need to add to get Scheifele. He has bigger upside than Kessel.

Scheifele for Kessel + 4th round?

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12-30-2012, 08:06 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
No way to the OP.

Maybe Scheifele + Trouba + 2nd and you're talking.
That's exactly what I proposed. I even threw in Kadri. No takers.

Very important to note Kessel's contract situation though. It's understandable from their side.

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12-30-2012, 08:18 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Scheifele is not a 2 way center.
You won't find a better 2-way center at that age. Have you watched the WJC's and noticed how many times he covers his D when they're out of position?

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12-30-2012, 08:19 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by glassbangers View Post
Are you kidding me OP? Leafs would need to add to get Scheifele. He has bigger upside than Kessel.

Scheifele for Kessel + 4th round?
Ha. Funny buddy

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