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THN: Brampton Battalion relocation proves Toronto isn't a hockey town

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Old
12-30-2012, 05:39 PM
  #426
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You can't stick an AHL team in the ACC. There's no room in terms of dates. That arena is already too jam packed. They're fine where they are.

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12-30-2012, 07:55 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it impossible to have a shared ice rink? The ice needs to be melted, the floor re painted or surfaced, then the ice needs to be frozen again to complete the transformation. There would have to be day intervals for this to even be plausible and considering AHL is very weekend heavy and Toronto plays a majority of Saturdaygames at home, there would be a lot of clashing.
This isn't necessary. The Oil Kings and the Hitmen simply play with the Oilers and Flames logos at centre ice. Quite honestly, the change around between a Leafs and Marlies game is negligible. A quick clean of the arena and run the Zamboni over the ice and voila done. This is done many times at the World Juniors. Heck, they don't even make you exit the building if you have tickets to both games until closer to faceoff of the second game. The Leafs could sell this as a doubleheader like in baseball, where many times one ticket gets you two games. Win-win right? Plus, the Marlies games could be kinda like a tailgate party for the Leafs game.

If a Leafs game started at 7 PM on a Saturday, how is a 12 PM Marlies game a clash? I'm not entirely sure why the Leafs are unique, as mentioned many teams share arenas and have games the same day as others. Hockey to hockey is the simplest change and likely with enough staffers could be done in less than an hour.

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12-30-2012, 07:56 PM
  #428
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Leafs don't play in those cities.
You are just proving my point that Toronto is a Leafs city, not a hockey city right?

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12-30-2012, 07:58 PM
  #429
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The Toronto media's goal nowadays is to knock the Leafs/Toronto so much to appeal to other fans.

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12-30-2012, 08:13 PM
  #430
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A lot of Toronto fans making excuses in this thread. Toronto is a lousy HOCKEY city. It's the best NHL city in the world of course. The Leafs are followed by everyone, but no team in the GTA has done well aside from the NHL team, but people just don't want to admit that.

The Marlies have future and current Leafs on the team and they can't sell out playoff games. They play 5 mintues away from the ACC and the arena isn't THAT bad.

The best hockey city in the North America is Minnesota and Toronto is far behind them in terms of support at all levels.

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12-30-2012, 08:13 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Toronto media's goal nowadays is to knock the Leafs/Toronto so much to appeal to other fans.
In Toronto, if you like hockey you are either a Leafs fan or Leafs hater. Whichever team the hater likes usually comes second in interest. Maybe interest isn't the best word, but I can assure you a lot spend more time dumping on the Leafs than discussing their team. It's the main market that keeps guys like Simmons, Cox and Berger afloat.


Last edited by Leafidelity: 12-30-2012 at 08:53 PM.
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12-30-2012, 08:37 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Vancouver Giants: 7000/game
Edmonton Oil Kings: 6500/game
Calgary Hitmen: 9000/game
Ottawa 67s: 6500/game

Brampton: 2000/game
Mississauga: 2500/game

That is actually pretty shocking for the size of those markets...

Race shouldn't make any difference.
I can't speak for where the Oil Kings and the Hitmen play but here in Vancouver the Giants play out of the old pacific coliseum in east van which is a vast Chinese neighborhood.
There is one thing you forgot. The city of Toronto also has an MLB, NBA, CFL, MLS and NLL teams.

The Oil Kings only go up against the Oilers, Eskimos & Rush.
The Hitmen only go up against the Flames, Stampeders & Roughnecks.
The Giants only go up against the Canucks, Lions & Whitecaps.
The 67's only go up against the Senators and the brand new CFL team coming back to Ottawa in 2014.


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12-30-2012, 08:41 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
This isn't necessary. The Oil Kings and the Hitmen simply play with the Oilers and Flames logos at centre ice. Quite honestly, the change around between a Leafs and Marlies game is negligible. A quick clean of the arena and run the Zamboni over the ice and voila done. This is done many times at the World Juniors. Heck, they don't even make you exit the building if you have tickets to both games until closer to faceoff of the second game. The Leafs could sell this as a doubleheader like in baseball, where many times one ticket gets you two games. Win-win right? Plus, the Marlies games could be kinda like a tailgate party for the Leafs game.

If a Leafs game started at 7 PM on a Saturday, how is a 12 PM Marlies game a clash? I'm not entirely sure why the Leafs are unique, as mentioned many teams share arenas and have games the same day as others. Hockey to hockey is the simplest change and likely with enough staffers could be done in less than an hour.
The only way something like that can work is if the Marlies games started at 12:00 PM on a Saturday, because generally their weekend home games start at 3:00 PM. However on Sunday's a lot of times the Raptors play their home games during the afternoons, so once again it's easier said then done to move the Marlies from the Richo to the Air Canada Centre. Plus how do they work around the schedule of home games from Monday - Friday?

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12-30-2012, 08:48 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
The Marlies have future and current Leafs on the team and they can't sell out playoff games. They play 5 mintues away from the ACC and the arena isn't THAT bad.

The best hockey city in the North America is Minnesota and Toronto is far behind them in terms of support at all levels.
Just a couple of notes:

1. I've been to Ricoh Coliseum. It's good, but I find the atmosphere...sterile. I don't know what it is exactly, but something just doesn't quite fit.

2. I think Buffalo should definitely be in the conversation for best hockey city in North America. We regularly sell out the First Niagara Center, we watch hockey on TV at larger ratings per capita than other markets larger than ours, etc. There's a reason why Buffalo was glossed Hockey Heaven.

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12-30-2012, 09:02 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
There is one thing you forgot. The city of Toronto also has an MLB, NBA, CFL, MLS and NLL teams.

The Oil Kings only go up against the Oilers and Eskimos.
The Hitmen only go up against the Flames and Stampeders.
The Giants only go up against the Canucks and Lions.
The 67's only go up against the Senators and the brand new CFL team coming back to Ottawa in 2014.
Edmonton also has an NLL team

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12-30-2012, 09:10 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
Just a couple of notes:

1. I've been to Ricoh Coliseum. It's good, but I find the atmosphere...sterile. I don't know what it is exactly, but something just doesn't quite fit.

2. I think Buffalo should definitely be in the conversation for best hockey city in North America. We regularly sell out the First Niagara Center, we watch hockey on TV at larger ratings per capita than other markets larger than ours, etc. There's a reason why Buffalo was glossed Hockey Heaven.
The reason the atmosphere is sterile is because most people that are watching the games would prefer the marlies to win, but are basically only there to watch the Leafs' prospects.

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12-30-2012, 09:16 PM
  #437
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Edmonton also has an NLL team
So does Calgary and there is one in the Greater Seattle area, which is a draw from the Vancouver area. I'd suggest all Seattle area teams are a draw for fans from Vancouver, so really there is a MLB, NFL and a NLL team in the area. You've also forgotten Vancouver has a MLS team. Also the Vancouver Giants also have to content with NCAA football and basketball in the Washington Huskies.

But really, as far as pointing this out it is simply proving the point that Toronto is a Leafs city period. With all the other competition out there, most other hockey teams are forgotten by the average sports fan. Heck, the Argos are largely forgotten by the average sports fan in Toronto. Being from Saskatchewan, it shocks me when you walk into a sports store in Toronto and there is maybe one small tiny rack of Argos t-shirts tucked in the back corner. Anyway, the point here is that Leafs support does not equal hockey support overall.

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12-30-2012, 09:20 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
The reason the atmosphere is sterile is because most people that are watching the games would prefer the marlies to win, but are basically only there to watch the Leafs' prospects.
Right, this is perhaps the problem with the Marlies. I wonder if the Marlies would be better supported and have actual Marlies fans if they were to move to Mississaugua, Brampton etc.? I've noticed the same thing about Marlies games when watching them on TV. Maybe I am in the minority, but when I go to a game, I cheer for a team regardless of who is playing. I don't sit silently back and scout them, as many people at Marlies games seem to do.

I do plan to hit a Marlies game next time I am in Toronto during the AHL season. I have a bit of an affinity for the team. Partially due to my love of the city of Toronto and partially due to their affiliation with the Reading Royals of the ECHL.

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12-30-2012, 09:25 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
Right, this is perhaps the problem with the Marlies. I wonder if the Marlies would be better supported and have actual Marlies fans if they were to move to Mississaugua, Brampton etc.? I've noticed the same thing about Marlies games when watching them on TV. Maybe I am in the minority, but when I go to a game, I cheer for a team regardless of who is playing. I don't sit silently back and scout them, as many people at Marlies games seem to do.

I do plan to hit a Marlies game next time I am in Toronto during the AHL season. I have a bit of an affinity for the team. Partially due to my love of the city of Toronto and partially due to their affiliation with the Reading Royals of the ECHL.
Eh, I don't think they would do well it Sauga or Brampton either. I think if they moved to London, Kitchener, Hamilton or one of those cities they would do better, but those teams already have successful teams in their area, so that wouldn't happen.

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12-30-2012, 09:32 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
The reason the atmosphere is sterile is because most people that are watching the games would prefer the marlies to win, but are basically only there to watch the Leafs' prospects.
When the Edmonton Oilers AHL team use to be the Toronto Roadrunners I would say that was true, because I remember their only games which got good crowds was against the St. Johns Maple Leafs and the reason was people wanting to see the Leafs prospects at that time.

However considering the Marlies just sold out a game at the Air Canada Centre obviously people wanted to see them play and their crowds have been very good because they are a winning team and last year's run to the Calder Cup Finals.

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12-30-2012, 09:38 PM
  #441
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Being from Saskatchewan, it shocks me when you walk into a sports store in Toronto and there is maybe one small tiny rack of Argos t-shirts tucked in the back corner. Anyway, the point here is that Leafs support does not equal hockey support overall.
Considering the Roughriders are the #1 sport in Regina you must be use to seeing only their merchandise sold in local sports stores. However the stores in Toronto there are always going to have a huge number of Leafs merchandise because they are #1 in the city. Then you need to factor in the Blue Jays items which has been selling great since brining back their old logo and then I say it's a draw with items sold by the Raptors, TFC, Argonauts and etc.

In the end all that doesn't mean Toronto is not a Hockey city. The way I see it Toronto is a Maple Leafs city and a Hockey city combined. After all if we weren't a Hockey city then why is the Hockey Hall of Fame located in Toronto and not somewhere else?

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12-30-2012, 10:26 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
A lot of Toronto fans making excuses in this thread. Toronto is a lousy HOCKEY city. It's the best NHL city in the world of course. The Leafs are followed by everyone, but no team in the GTA has done well aside from the NHL team, but people just don't want to admit that.

The Marlies have future and current
Leafs on the team and they can't
sell out playoff games. They play 5 mintues away from the ACC and the arena isn't THAT bad.

The best hockey city in the North America is Minnesota and Toronto is far behind them in terms of support at all levels.
Yet Minnesota lost their NHL team

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12-30-2012, 10:58 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
But really, as far as pointing this out it is simply proving the point that Toronto is a Leafs city period. With all the other competition out there, most other hockey teams are forgotten by the average sports fan. Heck, the Argos are largely forgotten by the average sports fan in Toronto. Being from Saskatchewan, it shocks me when you walk into a sports store in Toronto and there is maybe one small tiny rack of Argos t-shirts tucked in the back corner. Anyway, the point here is that Leafs support does not equal hockey support overall.
Yeah, I didn't follow the whole discussion, but I thought he was just giving reasons for why Toronto is not a hockey town, not making a case that it is.

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12-30-2012, 11:24 PM
  #444
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Yet Minnesota lost their NHL team
He said hockey city, not NHL city.

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12-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #445
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I am basing this comment from people I know who have lived in Vancouver and Calgary.

The immigrants in Toronto do not support hockey as much as the immigrants in Calgary/Vancouver, so hockey is decreasing in popularity among the GTA. Maybe not NHL hockey, but hockey in general.

Just my opinion.

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12-30-2012, 11:32 PM
  #446
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So we shouldn't stick 3 more NHL teams in the GTA area now? lame

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12-31-2012, 12:55 AM
  #447
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I am basing this comment from people I know who have lived in Vancouver and Calgary.

The immigrants in Toronto do not support hockey as much as the immigrants in Calgary/Vancouver, so hockey is decreasing in popularity among the GTA. Maybe not NHL hockey, but hockey in general.

Just my opinion.
I'm not sure about hockey as a game, but if we're talking NHL, there really hasn't been much to cheer for after the previous lockout. Kinda hard to collect new fans when your team manages to suck so consistently and the attention-wh0re of local media is hell bent on poking and jabbing on the team upon any possible opportunity.

When the team is on the up, you'll see more new fans. Coming in truckloads.

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12-31-2012, 01:38 AM
  #448
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He said hockey city, not NHL city.
NHL is hockey

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12-31-2012, 01:42 AM
  #449
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Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
A lot of Toronto fans making excuses in this thread. Toronto is a lousy HOCKEY city. It's the best NHL city in the world of course. The Leafs are followed by everyone, but no team in the GTA has done well aside from the NHL team, but people just don't want to admit that.

The Marlies have future and current Leafs on the team and they can't sell out playoff games. They play 5 mintues away from the ACC and the arena isn't THAT bad.

The best hockey city in the North America is Minnesota and Toronto is far behind them in terms of support at all levels.
Marlies are currently 2nd in league attendance, and the generals usually are among the largest in attendance.

Not to mention the GTHL is the largest development league in the world, just because major junior teams aren't followed extensively (which they are anyway I don't get where this came from considering Missisauga having a pretty good turn out this season and the generals are always among the best) doesnt mean its not a hockey city.

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12-31-2012, 01:57 AM
  #450
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So does Calgary and there is one in the Greater Seattle area, which is a draw from the Vancouver area. I'd suggest all Seattle area teams are a draw for fans from Vancouver, so really there is a MLB, NFL and a NLL team in the area. You've also forgotten Vancouver has a MLS team. Also the Vancouver Giants also have to content with NCAA football and basketball in the Washington Huskies.

But really, as far as pointing this out it is simply proving the point that Toronto is a Leafs city period. With all the other competition out there, most other hockey teams are forgotten by the average sports fan. Heck, the Argos are largely forgotten by the average sports fan in Toronto. Being from Saskatchewan, it shocks me when you walk into a sports store in Toronto and there is maybe one small tiny rack of Argos t-shirts tucked in the back corner. Anyway, the point here is that Leafs support does not equal hockey support overall.
Seattle is as close to Vancouver as Toronto is to Ottawa, Buffalo and Detroit. Therefore, by your standards, add 3 more NHl teams, 2 NFL, an NBA team and an MLB team.

Some OHL teams, an AHL team and the entire GTHL all thrive in Toronto. Brampton didnt work out but was never destined too considering proximity to the Hershey center and its target demographic not to mention public transportation is almost impossible from Toronto to Brampton and most of TO dont have cars because of the traffic problem.

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