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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part X: Is There Any Hope? Edition

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:12 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
"We're going to find out how bad the NHL wants a season," said a union source.

http://dlvr.it/2k0kpH

I still see the union pushing hard at the league one more time
Fehr has a week to smack the hornet's nest and try to get an extra year and a few million more on the cap for 2013-2014. He better not push too hard.

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12-30-2012, 09:18 PM
  #702
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Good job Fehr... Play hardball all you want. I hope the players are happy. If/when this season is ****canned... It's at this point on the PAs hands.

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12-30-2012, 09:22 PM
  #703
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Personally I find Del Zotto more important than Staal. Not that he's a better player, it's just that the Rangers lack PMDs in the system and have a lot of stay at home defenseman. Our transition game would suffer big time if he was traded. I think Del Zotto having a good 11-12 season is a big reason why the Rangers had their most consistent offensive season in years. If I was forced to pick, I would trade Staal.

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12-30-2012, 09:25 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Good job Fehr... Play hardball all you want. I hope the players are happy. If/when this season is ****canned... It's at this point on the PAs hands.
Not really, how many teams can transition to 60m in one year? NHL needs to realize cap has to be higher or there will be a whole lot of releases or trades and possibly some without jobs

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12-30-2012, 09:27 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by 3rdlineglory View Post
Personally I find Del Zotto more important than Staal. Not that he's a better player, it's just that the Rangers lack PMDs in the system and have a lot of stay at home defenseman. Our transition game would suffer big time if he was traded. I think Del Zotto having a good 11-12 season is a big reason why the Rangers had their most consistent offensive season in years. If I was forced to pick, I would trade Staal.
Good point regarding Del Zotto's role and its importance, but I think Staal is way better in his role than Del Zotto.

But, to your point, theres noone else in the organization that can fill the role that Del Zotto possibly can if he puts it all together.

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12-30-2012, 10:02 PM
  #706
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Rangers are going to continue to try and get one of Staal or Del Zotto to learn the right-side. Stralman isn't consistent enough to be more than a #5 guy who gets time on the 2nd PP unit. He's 26 years old and Del Zotto is already by far and away a better player at 22 and is getting better with each game.

People get too carried away with this 3 RHD and 3 LHD thing. Plenty of teams have defensive groups with one or two RH's. They're scarce in the league.

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12-30-2012, 10:03 PM
  #707
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Despite the fact that he is right handed, I would much rather remove Girardi over Staal. When Staal is on his game he is our best Dman imo.

I still think the Rangers are not in a position, at the moment, to move anyone on our D corps. The Rangers were looking to add to the D corps, not subtract from it.

The more logical moves would be cut corners with guys like Mike Rupp, or Boyle if the Rangers need to create some space.

I will agree that Gabs will not be resigned in the future.

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12-30-2012, 10:15 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Rangers are going to continue to try and get one of Staal or Del Zotto to learn the right-side. Stralman isn't consistent enough to be more than a #5 guy who gets time on the 2nd PP unit. He's 26 years old and Del Zotto is already by far and away a better player at 22 and is getting better with each game.

People get too carried away with this 3 RHD and 3 LHD thing. Plenty of teams have defensive groups with one or two RH's. They're scarce in the league.
It's a shame, because if Sauer was healthy there would be no need.

Staal - McDonagh - Del Zotto / Girardi - Sauer - Stralman/Eminger (until McIlrath is ready). But for now there is a hole.

Del Zotto played a little right-side last season and didn't seem too out of place.

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12-30-2012, 10:15 PM
  #709
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"@garylawless: if fehr comes back hard tomorrow talks break off and take this to final hours. if he comes back softish - maybe he lures bettman into a deal"

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12-30-2012, 10:55 PM
  #710
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There is no way the cap will be $60 in 2014-15. Revenue will go up and with it, the cap. Revenue would have to go up only 14% over two years to get back to a $70 cap. That is reasonable progress. Even a small revenue increase will bump things to $65 in two years.

Slats shouldnt make crazy moves. We are ok this year. If the cap is $65 next year, we will be ok then, too. And lets see what happens in 2014-15. If the cap is up to $70+, we will be able to kep all the long term assests and probably re-sign Gabby or acquire his replacement.

So long as the cap is over $66 in two years, we are ok.

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Ryan Callahan ($5.000m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($2.500m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Carl Hagelin ($1.700m) / J.T. Miller ($1.244m) / Marek Hrivik ($0.620m)
Kyle Jean ($0.925m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.760m) / Jesper Fasth ($0.900m)
Chad Kolarik ($0.800m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Ryan McDonagh ($3.500m) / Anton Stralman ($2.000m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.500m) / Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
Stu Bickel ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.000m)
Cam Talbot ($0.700m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,385,833; BONUSES: $1,372,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,614,167

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Old
12-30-2012, 11:04 PM
  #711
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There's no way that Fehr comes back without anything short of a low ball offer.

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12-30-2012, 11:12 PM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
There's no way that Fehr comes back without anything short of a low ball offer.
Unfortunately this is how I see it as well. There's going to be one final pushback by the PA. Tomorrow isn't going to be a day to celebrate. Well if you count it being New Years then maybe you would anyway.

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12-30-2012, 11:13 PM
  #713
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Just classic

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12-30-2012, 11:56 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
63 million and 7 years. Drop the puck
I agree. That's a compromise on both sides. Just get it done.

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:03 AM
  #715
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I don't know if this tweet was posted:

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
NHL has asked players to respond to all issues collectively and doesn't want to have to negotiate item by item. We will see how PA counters.

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12-31-2012, 01:08 AM
  #716
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So, my friend who is a diehard rangers fan and i'd trust him with info he gave me, said this:

His sister's fiance's friend (i know long connection) apparently knows or speaks to Ron Hainsey. Hainsey has obviously been a big part of the NHLPA. Hainsey texted the guy a few days ago and was pretty adamant about a deal getting done sometime this week/soon. Hainsey has been, I wouldn't say hardliner, but pretty behind the voice of the union. The only thing with this is, he was pretty optimistic that one week before christmas when they had those meetings in NYC. Though to say the least, he was more optimistic this time around. Take it for what it's worth.

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12-31-2012, 01:18 AM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
So, my friend who is a diehard rangers fan and i'd trust him with info he gave me, said this:

His sister's fiance's friend (i know long connection) apparently knows or speaks to Ron Hainsey. Hainsey has obviously been a big part of the NHLPA. Hainsey texted the guy a few days ago and was pretty adamant about a deal getting done sometime this week/soon. Hainsey has been, I wouldn't say hardliner, but pretty behind the voice of the union. The only thing with this is, he was pretty optimistic that one week before christmas when they had those meetings in NYC. Though to say the least, he was more optimistic this time around. Take it for what it's worth.
Hearing things like this make me feel more confident at least that Fehr did not tell the players to be prepared to sit out a year. He was right in telling them he could get them a better deal, but once the season is cancelled they'll be getting crap I think.

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Old
12-31-2012, 02:29 AM
  #718
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I just hope Fehr does not come back hard, but I know that won't happen.

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Old
12-31-2012, 02:57 AM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
So, my friend who is a diehard rangers fan and i'd trust him with info he gave me, said this:

His sister's fiance's friend (i know long connection) apparently knows or speaks to Ron Hainsey. Hainsey has obviously been a big part of the NHLPA. Hainsey texted the guy a few days ago and was pretty adamant about a deal getting done sometime this week/soon. Hainsey has been, I wouldn't say hardliner, but pretty behind the voice of the union. The only thing with this is, he was pretty optimistic that one week before christmas when they had those meetings in NYC. Though to say the least, he was more optimistic this time around. Take it for what it's worth.
Thanks for the info.

Although I've become rather disheartened at and by all the sources in the past months and the game that this negotiating has turned into.

This one, if legit, sounds as good as I've seen.

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Old
12-31-2012, 04:55 AM
  #720
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Brooks has some more information

Quote:
The league’s proposal mandates that clubs be charged the difference between a player’s NHL cap hit and the NHL minimum salary (proposed $625,000) for those athletes on one-way deals who are assigned to another pro league.

The NHL wants to apply the charge to players on existing contracts while the NHLPA has proposed that the charge be applied only against players who sign contracts going forward.
New wrinkle.

Quote:
Under the NHL proposal, teams would be allowed one “compliance buy-out” that would not count against cap space, but the league stipulation is that these buy-outs could only take place next June.

The risk under this scenario is that a player such as Redden targeted for a compliance buy-out — or, for example Scott Gomez in Montreal and perhaps Vincent Lecavalier at Tampa Bay — might suffer an injury serious enough during the season that would render him ineligible to be bought out.

Pushing all compliance buy-outs to next year not only creates unnecessary risk for teams, but would also increase the number of free agents on the market while teams deal with limited cap space.

The union is expected to propose that compliance buy-outs be permitted before this season.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...GjBYdj5mt2WHhI

So under the NHL proposal,the compliance buyouts can't be executed until the summer. Redden would count against the Rangers $70.2M cap with a cap hit of $5.875M. The Rangers would play with a $64.535M cap.

I would tell Redden to stay home. Don't come to camp. Pay him. If Redden wants to play,he has to break his contract and forfeit the remaining $7M plus remaining over the next few years. If he wants to play in the NHL again,he needs to play. He can't afford to sit out an entire season.

The NBA allowed their teams to amnesty a player for their 66 game season.

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12-31-2012, 05:03 AM
  #721
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With our luck, Redden will get injured. If that does happen, I'm sure Redden would cover it up.

And can you clarify on the first thing Brooks said? So someone like Redden, who has a cap hit of $6.5MM, $5.875MM will be his cap hit?

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12-31-2012, 06:18 AM
  #722
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$6,500,000
minus
$625,000
equals
$5,875,000

Redden wants to play in the NHL again. The NHL is doing him no favors if they get their way. It will be 3 years without having played a NHL game. The Rangers don't have to play him. They can pay him the remaining $2M plus this season and he can sit at home.

The NHL is not making it easy to make a deal.

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12-31-2012, 06:43 AM
  #723
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The NHL is offering $70.2M with no compliance buyouts. Then its $60M with compliance buyouts.

Make it $64.3M for two years with compliance buyouts for 13 and 13-14.

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12-31-2012, 06:52 AM
  #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
There is no way the cap will be $60 in 2014-15. Revenue will go up and with it, the cap. Revenue would have to go up only 14% over two years to get back to a $70 cap. That is reasonable progress. Even a small revenue increase will bump things to $65 in two years.

Slats shouldnt make crazy moves. We are ok this year. If the cap is $65 next year, we will be ok then, too. And lets see what happens in 2014-15. If the cap is up to $70+, we will be able to kep all the long term assests and probably re-sign Gabby or acquire his replacement.

So long as the cap is over $66 in two years, we are ok.
The problem is this beacon.

When Bettman calls around and asks owners if they will accept a CBA, Dolan, Snider and co will say yes no matter what. We have known that all along.

It's the owners of other teams that are problematic. And for "those" owners, 60m cap is a dream scenario. For Det, Col and couple of teams like that, 60m is also a dream scenario.

When you want a majority to accept a CBA, those on the fence all want 60m cap much much much rather than a 65m cap.

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12-31-2012, 07:26 AM
  #725
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Drop the *** puck already.

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