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Roster Talk '13 U.S.A. (Part 2)

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12-30-2012, 07:21 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
JT Miller has higher expectations as a AHL and returning player than Barber or Kuraly.
Yup yup.

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I don't think he's arguing that we have better players. I think he's just saying we straight up suck.
We can play with these top teams, but it's becoming painfully obvious they're just better than US. Maybe with a better bounce/luck here or there and we beat Russia, Canada or both but that's [pardon by bluntness] "loser talk."

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12-30-2012, 07:29 PM
  #727
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Aside from the assist on Trouba's goal, he was invisible, and not entirely his fault. Housley just isn't playing him enough, and he can't take control of the play because he's not playing his position.

Also, I don't know why Habs fans get antsy about criticism to Gally. He hasn't been the dominating force we expected him to be, that's just how I see it, and I'm okay with that because the WJC aren't do or die for a prospect.
Mostly because we feel he is being largely misused, and we crave to see him shine on high play level.

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12-30-2012, 08:02 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Mostly because we feel he is being largely misused, and we crave to see him shine on high play level.
He is being misused, but however we expected him to dominate because he is that good, and this is a big stage where people want to see that. I wouldn't say he is a bust, and is having a nice tournament, but most of us expected more from him. I liked him better than Yakupov on draft day, and I like him better now, but he needs to do more vs the better teams.

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12-30-2012, 08:06 PM
  #729
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again its easy to second guess right now, but our main issue is goal scoring, and what does Boucher do??? he scores goals, and big ones.

the other thing I always said was Boucher should have been here just for the fact that him and Galchenyuk were linemates. Look at the way Galchenyuk and his linemates have played...very little cohesion there, they simply arent playing like they know each other at all outside of Germany.. if Boucher was here I would venture to say that Galchenyuk would play a bit better as they have been teammates for 2 years and the familiarity between them was priceless.

The only other player who should be here 100% is Adam Erne. With his size and skill the kid could have played any role you wanted. And being a 17 year old playing in a majority French speaking league, and dominating the way he has, this kid would have been a blessing to have here...but to not even give him a chance to show his stuff at the December camp was criminal.

I know he is a 95, and USA Hockey rarely brings these kids along, but when you have this type of young gun who is physically mature, you need to bring him along as soon as possible...Canada has both Drouin and Mackinnon on their stacked team, surely we could have found room for Erne on our squad.

As for Lucia, I am a big fan like you, and I am amazed how little icetime him and Trocheck get. Trocheck got more icetime against Canada it seemed, but both of those should be together with Galchenyuk on their wing if you ask me. Lucia has size and skill but hasnt had much of a chance to show it off. Hopefully tomorrow we will get to see some of these kids finally step up and explode as many are soooo due.

Yeah I think we saw how that can really work in the Olympics, bringing guys in who are line mates or partners. Perry-Getzlaf, Seabrook-Keith, Marleau-Thornton. They know each other's tendecies, no need to worry about them gelling. Of all the omissions I think those who said Boucher should have been on the team have the best soapbox to stand on.

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12-30-2012, 08:07 PM
  #730
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I don't think any forward is beyond criticism so far, Gally included, but he's been our most dangerous forward, although that's not saying much. He certainly needs to be better, as they all do, but there are very real legs to the argument that Housley has no idea how to utilize him. For a team that's currently struggling to score, Gally should be getting 20+ minutes a game without a second thought. Double shift him, move him around lines to see if anything clicks, move him to center for a few shifts, throw him out on the PK here and there to keep the opposition on their heels, etc.

My only real complaint in regards to him (that's not indicative of all the forwards so far) is that he's trying too hard to snipe goals (really evident against Canada) and it's led to a lot of missed nets and lost offensive zone possession. I understand it - the team isn't scoring and he has a great shot - but I'd like to see him rip more of those on net and let his linemates look for rebounds. Granted, that means the US forwards would actually have to be crashing the net with any consistency though.

I'm expecting a big game out of him against Slovakia here in about 8 hours.

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12-30-2012, 08:10 PM
  #731
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with the way Jones has played, I see him back as well. He just is not ready for NHL duty yet... and though I am mostly talking about his play at the WJC, he still needs time to get stronger and more mature which will benefit him in 2 years imo.

Having Jones and Trouba back next year would be a great great thing for this team. Add Pat Sieloff and we have a solid three defensemen back...Plus Matt Grzelcyk is a 94, and I could see that as a nice start for our defense...

I believe only 2 forwards will be back which is why I hate always bringing 19 year olds...the turnover is just so damn high that team chemistry is always a concern. Hartman and Barber are the only 2 forwards back as I am sure Alex Galchenyuk will be in the NHL.
Way too early to tell. It depends on the team he is drafted by and how he plays with Portland. Could go either way.

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12-30-2012, 08:23 PM
  #732
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Yeah I think we saw how that can really work in the Olympics, bringing guys in who are line mates or partners. Perry-Getzlaf, Seabrook-Keith, Marleau-Thornton. They know each other's tendecies, no need to worry about them gelling. Of all the omissions I think those who said Boucher should have been on the team have the best soapbox to stand on.
It doesn't always work though. I remember when we were all excited about Mitch Wahl and Drayson Bowman in this tournament for that same reason and they did nothing with it. Miller and Grimaldi on this team were linemates throughout their NTDP careers and they haven't rekindled that chemistry. Not saying it shouldn't ever factor in but it should only do so when you feel things are basically even between the two guys you may choose.

One thing about about USAH is they are always reactionary instead of progressive in action and thought. They find something that works once and they stick with it for years regardless of results. After our initial WJC gold, and the disappointments that followed, most of us on here had been long calling for a pre-tournament camp in lieu of choosing a roster based on the summer camp but they didn't make that change until 2010. This year seemed like a shift back towards that ideology in that they chose to foster no competition at the December camp and it's a shame, as if they can't fathom the notion that their initial conclusions could be wrong. It may not have made a difference but they've done themselves no favors.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:24 PM
  #733
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He looked great against Germany, but a 1st overall draft pick in 2013? You have to be kidding me.
The scouts aren't judging him on the small sampling of games that you are, nor are they looking for him to be his future self right now.

People are overselling his mistakes and ignoring that he's being asked to shoulder a much larger burden than his draft peers. Drouin has the luxury of skating around and showing off his hands, because he is just one of a deep group of Canadian forwards. Jones is being asked to be a number-one/top-pairing defenseman.

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12-31-2012, 12:12 AM
  #734
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The scouts aren't judging him on the small sampling of games that you are, nor are they looking for him to be his future self right now.

People are overselling his mistakes and ignoring that he's being asked to shoulder a much larger burden than his draft peers. Drouin has the luxury of skating around and showing off his hands, because he is just one of a deep group of Canadian forwards. Jones is being asked to be a number-one/top-pairing defenseman.
I will agree with some of this.

But, USA Hockey has brought some of this upon themselves with the comments that they have made in regards to him before the tourney and giving him a leadership letter. They knew this kid would be under a microscope and though I dont blame them for anything, it probably has added a bit more pressure on his young shoulders.

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12-31-2012, 12:14 AM
  #735
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Way too early to tell. It depends on the team he is drafted by and how he plays with Portland. Could go either way.
Agreed. Just giving my opinion as I see no need to rush this kid. He could use another year of junior to gain poise, strength, and fine tune his overall game. Plus I am hoping he comes back next year for my sellfish US WJC reasons ofcourse!

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12-31-2012, 12:19 AM
  #736
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Yeah I think we saw how that can really work in the Olympics, bringing guys in who are line mates or partners. Perry-Getzlaf, Seabrook-Keith, Marleau-Thornton. They know each other's tendecies, no need to worry about them gelling. Of all the omissions I think those who said Boucher should have been on the team have the best soapbox to stand on.
Boucher was the worst omission possible, and it was a mistake then as it painfully clear now as well. I have been going over some of his goals tonight I have on my computer, and man can this kid snipe around the slot. He would be our best shot hands down on the powerplay as his release and force is simply wicked. A former USNDP player who represented his country at the u17 and u18 tourneys, and oh yeah, also Alex Galchenyuk's linemate gets snubbed...I cant shake my head enough over this one unfortunately.

Is someone really going to argue that Jimmy Vesey belongs here over Boucher?? And dont give me different role crap as Boucher can slot anywhere and be productive...and looking at our top 6, no reason for him to not be here with our lack of scoring.

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12-31-2012, 12:21 AM
  #737
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Agreed. Just giving my opinion as I see no need to rush this kid. He could use another year of junior to gain poise, strength, and fine tune his overall game. Plus I am hoping he comes back next year for my sellfish US WJC reasons ofcourse!
Me too.

I'm also sort of hoping that the Habs find 8 legitimate NHL scoring forwards and they send Galchenyuk to the AHL.

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12-31-2012, 12:27 AM
  #738
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I will agree with some of this.

But, USA Hockey has brought some of this upon themselves with the comments that they have made in regards to him before the tourney and giving him a leadership letter. They knew this kid would be under a microscope and though I dont blame them for anything, it probably has added a bit more pressure on his young shoulders.
I'm just talking about the evaluations people have for this kid's future. Seth has to own his shortcomings in this tournament, though I can't help but think that Housley is pushing him to do too much - Seth doesn't try to do everything in Portland.

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12-31-2012, 02:27 AM
  #739
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I was caught up with the Seth Jones hype for a while but after watching him against Russia and Canada I am pretty disappointed. I put the blame solely on him for the loss to Russia, he let the guy skate right through him who which led to the 2nd goal.

He looked great against Germany, but a 1st overall draft pick in 2013? You have to be kidding me.
To be fair the guy who skated around him (Nichushkin) has enough talent to go first in 2013. If all goes well for him *Knocks on wood* he will be an elite player. He is only 17 and has already played 8 games in the KHL leading up to the WJC.

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12-31-2012, 03:15 AM
  #740
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To be fair the guy who skated around him (Nichushkin) has enough talent to go first in 2013. If all goes well for him *Knocks on wood* he will be an elite player. He is only 17 and has already played 8 games in the KHL leading up to the WJC.
I thought Jones was the best player on the ice not playing goalie for the first half of the Russia vs USA game.

The first goal against the Russian's was on the PP and had McCabe and Murphy out.

I think a lot of people are missing the talent that is leading up to some of the following plays as pointed out. That is a great rush, Nichushkin deserves a lot of credit there. He did it with some of the better USA defensive forwards out Vesey and Trochek. The whole team got caught puck watching.

He did give up a breakaway later when gambling that the puck would come up the boards, guess what they are losing for all we know that was exact coaching directives.

The first goal going on Jones yesterday is laughable. It is Trouba and Gaudreau that don't space correctly and allow a beautiful pass by Huberdeau to RNH to walk into a shot where JT Miller is helping provide a screen for the shot. Notice I named three players there not a single one is Jones.Jones is actually in position down the boards where they are supposed to funnel the play and is crashing back hard to Scheifele once the play on the boards unexpectedly hits the middle, he is doing his job on that play.

The Second goal that is on him. Reilly and the team loses a battle in the corner and allow an easy net drive. He is in a tough position and I wonder how much Barber dropping low of the point made him want to cheat, thinking maybe he had more backside help. He gets caught in no mans land and ultimately that is his fault. But the guy who scores is you guessed it another guy in Strome that is a Junior player in circumstance only.

So to be clear he was on ice for goals scored by RNH (along with two linemates that are probably in the NHL) and Strome yesterday. One where he had hardly any outcome in the play the other where he was at fault

He had some other bad giveaways yesterday, but he also is a Hartman tap in (great save by Subban) from being the guy that nots the whole thing with a beautiful timed jump up. He didn't take stupid penalties at the end he even saved a sure thing cross crease goal with a good stick.

I expect him to play a little more even than he has at times but his peak points are also extremely high. He has had many positive impacts on the game and impressive plays. Hardly anybody plays flawless at all times. He has things to clean up, some of the giveaways are not good. But on a team starved for offense he has provided some decent chances and the front line are just not cashing them in.

I have enjoyed watching him, I didn't think he was a finished product and what I see I like a great deal as I have in past viewings. Sometimes less is more and a lot of prospects need to learn that. He has played pretty well for large stretches, one of the reasons in every game thus far Ferraro has pointed out a lot of good things about him. I also thought he shook off a pretty unfortunate first period some of it indeed of his own making but I personally like that he stayed pretty aggressive and didn't let doubt creep in. That is what good prospects should do.

But he is a part of a defensive unit that has allowed 4 goals in three games. That is pretty good, I think if you told most people that would be the number entering today nobody would have guessed 1-2. The problems with this team are up front.


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Old
12-31-2012, 05:39 AM
  #741
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Who's eligible to return next year? Obviously Jones and Hartman are, but who else?

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12-31-2012, 05:44 AM
  #742
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Who's eligible to return next year? Obviously Jones and Hartman are, but who else?
Galchenyuk
Barber
Hartman
Jones
Trouba
Sieloff
Gillies


Also Grzelcyk who was sort of on the roster for a while.

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12-31-2012, 05:47 AM
  #743
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Galchenyuk
Barber
Hartman
Jones
Trouba
Sieloff
Gillies


Also Grzelcyk who was sort of on the roster for a while.
Thanks. Forgot that Trouba will still be eligible, that's big.

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12-31-2012, 06:15 AM
  #744
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New lines that I demand


Gaudreau-Trochek-Miller
Vesey-Galchenyuk-Barber
Lucia-Kuraly-Biggs
Pietila-Grimaldi-Hartman
Bardreau


Give Grimaldi a chance at redemption.

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12-31-2012, 06:33 AM
  #745
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Good win. Would have been nice to have some of those goals earlier! Vesey was a revelation and Gaudreau looked like the BC version we're used to seeing. I thought all 3 lines (sans the Kuraly one) looked good today so that's a nice sign. I still think they need to change the Kuraly line, it's not working.

This was probably the worst defensive game they've had so far. Most of the issues in the previous games were strictly just due to turnovers. Today seemed to be more lapses in coverage (turnovers too) but I think that more had to do with the score and players taking risks they probably shouldn't and normally wouldn't take.

Here's the lines I'd like to see:

Gaudreau - Miller - Vesey
Galchenyuk - Trocheck - Biggs
Lucia - Kuraly - Barber
Pietila - Bardreau - Hartman
Grimaldi

The Vesey switch worked really well. I think flipping Galchenyuk and Lucia could do the same.

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12-31-2012, 06:41 AM
  #746
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Boucher was the worst omission possible, and it was a mistake then as it painfully clear now as well. I have been going over some of his goals tonight I have on my computer, and man can this kid snipe around the slot. He would be our best shot hands down on the powerplay as his release and force is simply wicked. A former USNDP player who represented his country at the u17 and u18 tourneys, and oh yeah, also Alex Galchenyuk's linemate gets snubbed...I cant shake my head enough over this one unfortunately.

Is someone really going to argue that Jimmy Vesey belongs here over Boucher?? And dont give me different role crap as Boucher can slot anywhere and be productive...and looking at our top 6, no reason for him to not be here with our lack of scoring.
Why do you single out Vesey? Id say Vesey has played worst case as well as Biggs. Biggs is one of the most overrated players on the team. Id take Vesey over Biggs easily. Vesey pumps home that breakaway he probably gets consideration for POTG. Wasn't 't Vesey POTG pre-tourney against Sweden? People get way to hung up about where someone is drafted.


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12-31-2012, 06:42 AM
  #747
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Why do you single out Vesey? Id say Vesey has played worst case as well as Biggs. Biggs is one of the most overrated players on the team. Id take Vesey over Biggs easily.
Biggs has been fine in his role.

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12-31-2012, 06:44 AM
  #748
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I don't think I noticed Biggs at all, today. We didn't have much need for him in the game. What was his ice time?

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12-31-2012, 06:47 AM
  #749
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I don't think I noticed Biggs at all, today. We didn't have much need for him in the game. What was his ice time?
He was involved in several plays. Had a glorious short-handed chance, set-up Trocheck for a goal with a nice feed, and was bulldozing around on the ice late in the game. He skates just well enough so that you can put him on and line and he doesn't look out of place.

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12-31-2012, 06:50 AM
  #750
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He was involved in several plays. Had a glorious short-handed chance, set-up Trocheck for a goal with a nice feed, and was bulldozing around on the ice late in the game. He skates just well enough so that you can put him on and line and he doesn't look out of place.
I wasn't criticizing him. I was asking if the coach was being conservative with his ice time. I just didn't notice him at all.

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