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Mark Scheifele for Phil Kessel

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:51 PM
  #276
Sweech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
That's exactly what I proposed. I even threw in Kadri. No takers.

Very important to note Kessel's contract situation though. It's understandable from their side.
Even without the contract, Winnipeg is trying to draft and develop their own players.

Nothing against Kessel, he's young and outstandingly talented. That's just the way it is.

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12-30-2012, 09:05 PM
  #277
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Why would we trade for Schliefe? If we wanted a diver, i'd just sign Alexandre Despatie as an FA

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12-30-2012, 09:09 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassbangers View Post
Are you kidding me OP? Leafs would need to add to get Scheifele. He has bigger upside than Kessel.

Scheifele for Kessel + 4th round?
How many points does Scheifele have in the NHL? And how many does Kessel?

I'll answer my own question for you: 1, and 327. If you genuinely believe what you just posted you're clearly incapable of logical thought.

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Old
12-30-2012, 10:14 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
How many points does Scheifele have in the NHL? And how many does Kessel?

I'll answer my own question for you: 1, and 327. If you genuinely believe what you just posted you're clearly incapable of logical thought.
A 7 game tryout as an 18 year old & used sparingly vs 6 years in the NHL with the last 3 on the top line. An astute comparison.

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12-30-2012, 10:21 PM
  #280
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Kessel is going to leave the Leafs in a few years for nothing and Seguin is just getting warmed up.. ouch!

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12-30-2012, 10:30 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Sharp10 View Post
Kessel is going to leave the Leafs in a few years for nothing and Seguin is just getting warmed up.. ouch!
If they don't do that trade, the Leafs (knowing their luck) would probably have found themselves just outside the playoffs, so those two picks would have been mid 1st rounders, Kessel > couple mid 1st rounders. Luckily, they did do that trade and got Kessel, and Boston benefited too, win win. Hotly debated trade when both sides won?

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12-30-2012, 11:05 PM
  #282
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Schiefele for Kessel? Click, dial tone.

Winnipeg adds just to start a discussion.

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Old
12-30-2012, 11:20 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan52 View Post
A 7 game tryout as an 18 year old & used sparingly vs 6 years in the NHL with the last 3 on the top line. An astute comparison.
That's exactly why it's moronic to say leafs would need to add to get Scheifele.

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Old
12-30-2012, 11:33 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I gotta say, they sure had me fooled.
Might be my favourite post of the year

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:03 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
So let me get this straight.

Burke gives up:

Seguin
Hamilton
Knight

-for-

Scheifele
2nd
2nd

This is relevant but not the whole point. Toronto wouldn't have made that trade if they knew they were coughing up Seguin and Hamilton.

Am I crazy for thinking that Scheifele is looking like nothing more than a decent second line player in the NHL?

All those Leafs fans out there know how I love to bag on Kessel, but this deal doesn't make the slightest amount of sense even if Toronto wants to go back to the drawing board and go into a rebuild.

Even if Toronto did want to blow things up again and go into rebuild mode... regardless of how much time is left on Kessel's contract or his level of interest in signing a long term contract to sign with the Jets, at least one of those second rounders would have to be changed into a 1st rounder.

Given how the Jets would have to have one hell of an epic fail of a season to even end up in 10th position, I wouldn't be surprised if Leafs fans laughed at the deal if the 2 2nd rounders were in fact 1st rounders.

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12-31-2012, 12:31 AM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
This is relevant but not the whole point. Toronto wouldn't have made that trade if they knew they were coughing up Seguin and Hamilton.

Am I crazy for thinking that Scheifele is looking like nothing more than a decent second line player in the NHL?

All those Leafs fans out there know how I love to bag on Kessel, but this deal doesn't make the slightest amount of sense even if Toronto wants to go back to the drawing board and go into a rebuild.

Even if Toronto did want to blow things up again and go into rebuild mode... regardless of how much time is left on Kessel's contract or his level of interest in signing a long term contract to sign with the Jets, at least one of those second rounders would have to be changed into a 1st rounder.

Given how the Jets would have to have one hell of an epic fail of a season to even end up in 10th position, I wouldn't be surprised if Leafs fans laughed at the deal if the 2 2nd rounders were in fact 1st rounders.
Regardless?? Not only is it not regardless, it's the entire point from the Winnipeg point of view.

How has it not sunk in to the posters who stop in for a "lol" post, that not one Jet fan has said that Scheifele is worth more than Kessel now, but that the deal makes no sense for the Jets because they are not giving up significant assets for a player with one year left on his deal?

Thadd, would you jump at the chance to trade one of your freshly drafted players, who you would have for 7 years for 1 guaranteed year of Kessel? Or in your opinion, you would be ok with trading the young draftee, and multiple 1st round picks for the 1 year?

Leaf fans who are flying by, and not reading all the posts, would you be ok with trading Rielly for someone you only have guaranteed control over for 1 year?

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:35 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
This is relevant but not the whole point. Toronto wouldn't have made that trade if they knew they were coughing up Seguin and Hamilton.

Am I crazy for thinking that Scheifele is looking like nothing more than a decent second line player in the NHL?

I wouldn't be surprised if Leafs fans laughed at the deal if the 2 2nd rounders were in fact 1st rounders.
I'd still do it again. Do people actually think Seguin would be any better than Kessel on the leafs? Who would Seguin play with lol

Also, I don't see much in Schiefele, 2nd line potential is what I see in him as well

And Schiefele + (Trouba+2nd) or (1st+1st) is much more respectable, but I'd still decline it.

Kessel is our whole offense. Period.

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:29 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
I'd still do it again. Do people actually think Seguin would be any better than Kessel on the leafs? Who would Seguin play with lol

Also, I don't see much in Schiefele, 2nd line potential is what I see in him as well

And Schiefele + (Trouba+2nd) or (1st+1st) is much more respectable, but I'd still decline it.

Kessel is our whole offense. Period.
That's great, because it never would be offered from Winnipeg in the 1st place.

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Old
12-31-2012, 03:40 AM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
That's great, because it never would be offered from Winnipeg in the 1st place.
Fair enough, and by no means should you guys do it.

That's just what I would want coming back in the event of a Tor/Win trade for Kessel

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Old
12-31-2012, 06:27 AM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassbangers View Post
Are you kidding me OP? Leafs would need to add to get Scheifele. He has bigger upside than Kessel.

Scheifele for Kessel + 4th round?
This is actually a pretty funny joke with people actually believing that you are serious

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Old
12-31-2012, 07:09 AM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJayMann View Post
Schiefele for Kessel? Click, dial tone.

Winnipeg adds just to start a discussion.
Before all the drive by comments came streaming in there was a reasonable conversation in which the Jets fans voiced there concerns.

You should go back and read to really understand both sides positions.

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:46 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
I'd still do it again. Do people actually think Seguin would be any better than Kessel on the leafs? Who would Seguin play with lol

Also, I don't see much in Schiefele, 2nd line potential is what I see in him as well

And Schiefele + (Trouba+2nd) or (1st+1st) is much more respectable, but I'd still decline it.

Kessel is our whole offense. Period.
I'd take seguin over kessel any day. If you don't understand that you don't have hockey intelligence.

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12-31-2012, 08:55 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I'd take seguin over kessel any day. If you don't understand that you don't have hockey intelligence.
Questioning my hockey intelligence after you posted that terrible offer in the OP?

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:04 AM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I'd take seguin over kessel any day. If you don't understand that you don't have hockey intelligence.
Right now if I am in win now mode I think I am taking the PPG winger over the young C. Give me 3 more years to really see what Seguin becomes and then I will see if Seguin > Kessel.

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12-31-2012, 09:30 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Right now if I am in win now mode I think I am taking the PPG winger over the young C. Give me 3 more years to really see what Seguin becomes and then I will see if Seguin > Kessel.
Funny thing is, Seguin isn't Even a C.

Kessel is the superior player at the same position

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12-31-2012, 09:36 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Funny thing is, Seguin isn't Even a C.

Kessel is the superior player at the same position
Seguin is a natty centre on a team with no centre vacancies in the top 6.

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12-31-2012, 09:53 AM
  #297
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Seguin is a natty centre on a team with no centre vacancies in the top 6.
Maybe, maybe not

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:03 AM
  #298
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Proposals that include the proviso if superstar X signs with us... are just so frustrating to read.

I want to address the trade as is, first. Scheifele and some draft picks for Kessel. First off, Chevaldayoff jumps on this faster than a hungry lion on a three-legged gazelle. Kessel has not only hit 30+ goals in his entire tenure with Toronto, but he has done so on generally weak lines with a revolving door of linemates.

Scheifele has very limited NHL experience, and solid play in a U20 tournament is not a benchmark for NHL success. Scheifele will most likely be a decent NHL centreman one day, but he can hardly be considered a favourite ahead of Nazem Kadri on the Maple Leafs depth chart. And I don't mean that as a slight against either player, but Kadri is older and better prepared for NHL-level competition. Scheifele needs more time in the AHL.

The draft picks are not terribly helpful to a Leafs team that is preparing to make the jump from basement dweller to playoff challenger. They hold some value, but given that Kessel has only continued to improve from what his value was back when he was traded to the Leafs, extracting nothing more than the equivalent of the same value makes very little sense. Especially when there are even less variables with the Jets' current roster compared to the Leafs' roster at the time of the Kesssel trade.

Second of all, and this is the most important consideration for the "so long as Perry joins the team, Kessel is expendable", why on earth would Perry sign with Toronto if Kessel was getting traded. Perry is going to want to sign with a team that is ready to make a run for the Cup or at least be competing for the playoffs.

Kessel is an integral part of the Leafs team, whereas Scheifele is a prospect, and wouldn't be in the NHL this season, and possibly won't be next as he continues to develop.

Addressing the Leafs' need for a 1C will have to be met by trading assets from areas of strength, not from essential areas that have no realistic replacement option (i.e. signing a highly sought-after free agent when you stipulate making the team worse in the short as some sort of incentive to lure in the star player).

No from a Leafs POV.

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:10 AM
  #299
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Although much depends how you view Staal vs. Kessel, remember that Jordan fetched Sutter, Dumoulin and the #8 pick (Pouliot).

Haven't really seen a Winnipeg proposal that is as big a get as that, and I'd view Staal vs. Kessel as closely comparable.

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12-31-2012, 10:17 AM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I'd take seguin over kessel any day. If you don't understand that you don't have hockey intelligence.
Isn't it interesting that when people don't have anything to support their argument they can just say "well only idiots would disagree with me".

I'm wondering how this type of statement isn't a violation of the code of conduct.

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