Hasek in his prime: Most feared goalie by players?

[double5son10]

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Thought of him too. The only thing is he lacked staying power compared to the other guys.

Moving along, while this is a name I know is nowhere near Hasek I thought I would mention him as a guy who always gave you that fear in the back of your mind that he would steal a game every time. Mike Richter. Maybe it is the 1994 playoffs or the 1996 World Cup that comes to mind, but I never felt comfortable going against him especially in international tournaments. There was always this thought in the back of your mind saying "Oh my Lord is he going to rob us tonight?"

Parent lacked "staying power" but you bring up Mike Richter? Haha, that's funny. The OP is "Hasek in his prime", not "Was Hasek feared as a 40+ year old has-been being carried by a superior team?" Parent didn't exactly drop off from hanging around too long. He suffered two major injuries, one that cost him most of a season and possibly a Flyers dynasty, the other that ended his career. Parent was just as feared in his prime as Hasek was in his, yes, even if it wasn't as long a prime, and yes, more than Mike Richter ever was. But whatever, moving along...

[toob]

Originally Posted by Rhiessan71

Not for the whole playoffs, just for the Finals.
He was terrible vs the Habs and was one of the main reasons that series even went 7. His team bailed him out in that game 7 to boot.
He barely had to do anything vs the Flyers and he wasn't much better in the Tampa series than he was in the Habs series.

Yeah... go and read the GDTs on the Lightning board to see what Tampa fans thought of Thomas. Goaltending was the difference in the ECF with Boston's being outstanding and Tampa's mostly sucking badly.

This is a good example of where stats dont tell the whole story. Except for game 1 and maybe game 4 where Purcell just started sniping to rally a comeback Thomas was excellent. So when he lets in 5 goals in game 2 including a couple of soft ones what needs to be remembered is how bad Boston's D was and how hard the Lightning came at Thomas for him to only shut the door in the 3rd period on great chances. Thomas's shutout in game 7 wasnt even that impressive as Boston's D got their game together and dominated the whole game while Roloson finally played great like he did earlier in the playoffs but the Lightning were flat.

Im not going to contradict you on the Montreal series (all i watched was the game where Thomas made that huge save in OT) but definitely will on the Tampa series. The finals just sealed the deal and yes Thomas let in dumbass goals in the finals as well including the one that was an easy save for Luongo but focusing on the bad goals is missing the overall point. For every bad goal Thomas let in it seemed like he made that incredible save on a sure goal.

On Bergeron i remember him killing Tampa centers on faceoffs in a game after he returned but other than that he was solid but wasnt outshining Thomas at all. At least what i remember thinking was that if Boston wins the Cup then Thomas has got the Conn Smythe locked down (later it became pretty much a lock even if they lost).

[Rhiessan71]

Originally Posted by toob

Yeah... go and read the GDTs on the Lightning board to see what Tampa fans thought of Thomas. Goaltending was the difference in the ECF with Boston's being outstanding and Tampa's mostly sucking badly.

This is a good example of where stats dont tell the whole story. Except for game 1 and maybe game 4 where Purcell just started sniping to rally a comeback Thomas was excellent. So when he lets in 5 goals in game 2 including a couple of soft ones what needs to be remembered is how bad Boston's D was and how hard the Lightning came at Thomas for him to only shut the door in the 3rd period on great chances. Thomas's shutout in game 7 wasnt even that impressive as Boston's D got their game together and dominated the whole game while Roloson finally played great like he did earlier in the playoffs but the Lightning were flat.

Im not going to contradict you on the Montreal series (all i watched was the game where Thomas made that huge save in OT) but definitely will on the Tampa series. The finals just sealed the deal and yes Thomas let in dumbass goals in the finals as well including the one that was an easy save for Luongo but focusing on the bad goals is missing the overall point. For every bad goal Thomas let in it seemed like he made that incredible save on a sure goal.

On Bergeron i remember him killing Tampa centers on faceoffs in a game after he returned but other than that he was solid but wasnt outshining Thomas at all. At least what i remember thinking was that if Boston wins the Cup then Thomas has got the Conn Smythe locked down (later it became pretty much a lock even if they lost).

If Thomas had have played at the level he did in the finals, neither the Habs or Tampa series' would've gone past 4-5 games.

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

This sounds like a very Montreal-centric look at things. I don't remember Bergeron being mentioned as more than a Smythe afterthought going into the finals. I thought Thomas was the clear front runner, with Chara a distant second.

Nah, Chara wasn't getting much consideration either. Horton, Krejci, Bergeron and Z were all in a glut of Bruins having nice playoffs who weren't Tim Thomas.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl,wp5950

It's Puckdaddy (I know, I know) but I think it was pretty reflective of how things were viewed going into the finals.

[Hobnobs]

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

This sounds like a very Montreal-centric look at things. I don't remember Bergeron being mentioned as more than a Smythe afterthought going into the finals. I thought Thomas was the clear front runner, with Chara a distant second.

Did you really expect an unbiased view from him in a thread with yet another french-canadian vs. a euro?

[Joe McGrath]

I think the idea that you never really knew what Hasek might do to stop the puck or take away a scoring chance made him the most feared. When Roy did something unpredictable it wasn't usually a positive experience.

[Sens Rule]

Originally Posted by double5son10

Parent lacked "staying power" but you bring up Mike Richter? Haha, that's funny. The OP is "Hasek in his prime", not "Was Hasek feared as a 40+ year old has-been being carried by a superior team?" Parent didn't exactly drop off from hanging around too long. He suffered two major injuries, one that cost him most of a season and possibly a Flyers dynasty, the other that ended his career. Parent was just as feared in his prime as Hasek was in his, yes, even if it wasn't as long a prime, and yes, more than Mike Richter ever was. But whatever, moving along...

Hasek WAS Feared into his 40's. He was never a has-been... except maybe in his last season. In Ottawa for only half a season (we would have won the Cup.. fffffing abductor muscle!) he was unfreaking believable. Not quite like he was in Buffalo but not that far off. That Ottawa team was stacked but they left Hasek hanging all the time... they gave up tons of odd man chances playing offence first and Hasek Routinely bailed them out... and had as good of numbers as anyone.... after the lockout... when he was past 40.

It is laughable to say he had a short career. He played in the Canada Cup at age 20 and was one of the best KHL Goalies at 46. I personally have no doubt he could have succeeded in the NHL from draft age if he wasn't behind the iron curtain.

He had that sick prime.... the best of any goalie ever from age 29-36. I normally do not give injury credit or missing time credit or whatever... but it is clear to me Hasek would have been a top 3 goalie in the NHL for like 20 years+... every year... if not for the fact he started behind the iron curtain.

It is insulting to call Hasek a has-been.. or being lifted up by a superior team. He is full credit for his Cup win in Detroit. Hasek way be crazy... and he may refuse to play if he is not 100% and fully able to play his Hasek-Gumby-Yoga-Rubberman style. But he was never a has been. In fact I think his refusal to play with injuries that maybe others would have played with is because his pride would not let him go out on the ice unless he could be his best and THE best. He simply could not hang on to be a has-been... he couldn't even stand to let any pucks in in practice.

Give me Hasek in any game from 1985 to like 2006... and he is likely the best goalie in that game. Only Roy could come close.

And as to Detroit and Ottawa and his late career.... Hasek might not have been as feared as he was in Buffalo... but he was feared... and the match-up was feared because not only do you have to face Hasek and good luck on getting more then 2 goals... you faced the best offences in the league that would tear you apart.

[Rhiessan71]

Originally Posted by Hobnobs

Did you really expect an unbiased view from him in a thread with yet another french-canadian vs. a euro?

What the F are you even talking about?

Thomas is an American and was inconsistent as hell until the Finals. He scared his own teammates just as much as he scared the opposition most nights leading up to the Finals.
Chara played well throughout but was also inconsistent. Being sick in the first round didn't help his chances. Getting burned by Tampa forwards a few times didn't help either.
The B's entire first line of Krejci, Horton and Lucic scored 37% of their points in the 4 game sweep of the Flyers.
Without that series...
Krejci GP-21 P-14
Horton GP-17 P-10
Lucic GP-21 P-9

No, sorry, Bergeron was noticeable every game he played and stood out at one end or the other, if not both.
He was their most consistent player and their best on more nights than not.

Thomas found his consistency in the Finals for sure but that was NOT the way he played in the previous 3 rounds, that's for damned sure.

EDIT: Just a little trivia, Bergeron is now the only player to win a World Junior Gold, Spengler Cup Gold, Olympic Gold, World championship Gold and a Stanley Cup.

[The Kingslayer]

I dont recall Gretzky shooting on Dom in 98. Still blows my mind that Bourque shot

[The Kingslayer]

[toob]

Originally Posted by Rhiessan71

If Thomas had have played at the level he did in the finals, neither the Habs or Tampa series' would've gone past 4-5 games.

if the Lightning had Thomas instead they would have easily won that series in 5 (maybe 4 if the refs were also better ).

Thomas easily played better then that level in the critical game 5 of the ECF in a game that should have been Tampa's putting them up 3-2 instead of the Bruins. He played at that level in game 3 also (although there his team also dominated). Also in the second half of game 2 to keep the win. And then he played more than good enough in game 7 for the shutout though his team D was at its best then.

It isnt like Thomas didnt allow any bad goals in the finals either.

i doubt i am going to convince you
since this is something you have already decided
but just go look at the main board threads BEFORE the finals
Thomas was a clear Conn Smythe favorite before playing Vancouver in the minds of many

[Rhiessan71]

Originally Posted by toob

if the Lightning had Thomas instead they would have easily won that series in 5 (maybe 4 if the refs were also better ).

Thomas easily played better then that level in the critical game 5 of the ECF in a game that should have been Tampa's putting them up 3-2 instead of the Bruins. He played at that level in game 3 also (although there his team also dominated). Also in the second half of game 2 to keep the win. And then he played more than good enough in game 7 for the shutout though his team D was at its best then.

It isnt like Thomas didnt allow any bad goals in the finals either.

i doubt i am going to convince you
since this is something you have already decided
but just go look at the main board threads BEFORE the finals
Thomas was a clear Conn Smythe favorite before playing Vancouver in the minds of many

You don't have to convince me of anything, I know he was a front runner.
What I'm saying (in response to the comment that Thomas deserved mention among the likes of Hasek and Roy earlier in this thread) is that it was more by default and lack of any real competition for it.
Not because his performance (other than the Finals only) was worthy of all-time praise.

[SaintPatrick33]

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Fair comparison. Hasek and Koufax. Two players who could have had a longer career but had that aura about them where they were nearly infallible and everyone knew it. And let's face it, if there is a pitcher in baseball history you want to pitch just one game many (including me) choose Koufax without even blinking.

Dunno, if I was facing a team with a lineup full of right-handed bats I'd probably go with Bob Gibson or Walter Johnson. A lineup of lefties? Koufax all the way.

[Sadekuuro]

Originally Posted by The Kingslayer

I dont recall Gretzky shooting on Dom in 98. Still blows my mind that Bourque shot

Shanahan was a poor choice too.