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Old
12-30-2012, 10:38 PM
  #101
MAK19
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
OK. I certainly did expect a 'yes'

Tavares-Spezza in the Spengler Cup has Sens fans salivating
oops. Meant didn't, not did

didn't expect Isles fans to say yes.





5.5 hours later and the thread is 5 pages

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Old
12-30-2012, 10:44 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
What I don't understand is why you're giving up so many good young pieces for Tavares when you already have Spezza. I know Tavares is really young and such and will be there long after Spezza, and everyone likes center depth, but it just seems like center overkill considering what you're giving up.
So they can play together

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Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
What are you going on about?? How is Tavares a 90+ player?? He barely hit 80 as the go to guy for everything.

I dont care how many goals he scored as a junior, he's over-rated on these boards.
Well I made projections for other players in that post so I was doing the same for Tavares.

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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Wha..? Stamkos isn't substantially better than Karlsson offensively? Stamkos, who's had three straight 40+ goal and 90+ point seasons? Stamkos, who's won two Rocket Richard Trophies before his 23rd birthday? Stamkos, the third youngest player to score 50 goals in a season in NHL history? That Stamkos?

Look, Karlsson's an elite defenseman, and there's nothing to say he won't repeat this past season's production, but as of yet, he hasn't. And that's not worth the risk of trading any of those players not named Tavares, who've been models of consistency, for Karlsson. Especially not Stamkos. He and Giroux both scored ~20% more points than Karlsson last year. That's a significant difference.
Stamkos had a grand total of 19 more points than Karlsson last season. Yes, that Stamkos.

I'll take 19 less points (from the blueline no less) along with the ability to play against the other team's best players.

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Old
12-30-2012, 11:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
What are you going on about?? How is Tavares a 90+ player?? He barely hit 80 as the go to guy for everything.

I dont care how many goals he scored as a junior, he's over-rated on these boards.
The easiest way to spot someone who has not watched a single Islander game in two years is to look for someone who calls John Tavares overrated.

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:35 AM
  #104
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>Complains about people calling Tavares over rated
>Says Tavares is a 90+ point player
>Tavares hasn't never got 90 or more points

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:16 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Take off the delusional glasses. There is so much wrong its kinda funny. Do you watch anything beyond stats?
Saying karlsson is better then daughty petro or weber, I kind of ask myself the same question about you that you just asked.

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12-31-2012, 01:17 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Teams have been game planning around him for longer than just last season. Nothing about Karlsson is "borderline" good. He is amazing at stealing pucks and breaking up plays.

I honestly think his stats will get better next season and in the future. He had a GREAT season, but I think he is not near his potential offensively.... or defensively. I think he is fully capable of being a top 10 or even top 5 scorer in the entire NHL for the next decade.

He is so smooth and so confident and he rarely forces plays. He is just such a natural. I have never seen anything like him. He is unique but in 10 or 15 years people will talk about him like they do MacInnis and Coffey and Bourque.
This.............I just don't even know how to respond to this.............Christ this is homerism at it's finest. Mike Green, as mentioned previously, had several seasons like Karlssons and look at him now. Hell Joe Juneau looked like the "Next One" at one point. (Ok not really but the point is made).


Last edited by NYI365: 12-31-2012 at 01:26 AM.
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Old
12-31-2012, 01:26 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post


C'mon it's Karlsson. Piss seems to follow that poor kid everywhere.
Hahahahahaha.

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Originally Posted by The Waffler View Post
I bet I can piss farther than you.
Cool story bro.

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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Lol I love how you quietly tried to sneak Lundqvist into that category of elite players. FUNNY.
Not sure if serious...

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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Karlsson is great offensively but, he is very ordinary defensively, as a defenseman I think that's a big void.

Mike Green already had 2 season of 70 pts, do you value him better than Tavares ?
Not sure if serious x2...

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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Dude, I'm not a Rangers fan, I'm a Sens fan, but without Lundqvist last year, the Rangers would have been golfing after the first round. Lundqvist is as elite as it gets for goalies. Just because he's not in his early 20s does not make him any less elite. The only goalie in the league I might take over Lundqvist, and its arguable, is Price, and that is because of age, not talent (they are pretty equivalent goalies IMO). I don't think I'd even take Rinne over Lundqvist.
Good to see Sens fans acknowledging Lundqvist's talent.

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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
you knew green was nominated for the norris few years ago ?
Really? Green isn't even in the same Stratosphere as Karlsson offensively and Karlsson has never had anyone the talent level of an Ovechkin to play with.

Green got points playing on a power play with Ovechkin in his 50-60 goal days. Karlsson IS the Sens power play. He's one of the best PP QB's the league has seen since Sergei Zubov and Brian Leetch, who were two of the best ever on the point.

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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Are you forgetting Green and Lidstrom, who have combined for 4 seasons over 70 points since the lockout with Lidstrom reaching 80, and Green being on pace for over 82 in both his seasons?

Karlsson's offense was outstanding last season, but its not like he changed the game or anything.
He controlled the pace of the game. Lidstrom, while very good in his own zone and a solid contributor offensively for many years never controlled play like Karlsson did. They play 2 different styles of game. Karlsson of all defenders in the NHL had the greatest impact of any defenseman in the league last year while on ice. He controlled play in all 3 zones. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:27 AM
  #108
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Didn't even bother to read past OP's offer, so I don't even care about 5 pages of bickering, but I need to point out: proposals that involve a team's under-25 franchise player don't work.

Doesn't even matter about value. Players like Tavares (especially on contracts like Tavares) don't get dealt unless they absolutely, 100% need to be dealt (player makes a trade demand and holds out, or sleeps with the owners wife, etc...). Silly to even speculate about. As much as I'd like the kid, Tavares is an Islander and will remain that way indefinitely. He's locked up to an Islanders-friendly contracts long-term, is the face of the franchise, is the main marketing piece, etc...

We'd need to include Karlsson in any proposal (with the Isles obviously adding), and since that sure as heck isn't happening from Ottawa's end, it's just not worth talking about.

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:31 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
So they can play together



Well I made projections for other players in that post so I was doing the same for Tavares.



Stamkos had a grand total of 19 more points than Karlsson last season. Yes, that Stamkos.

I'll take 19 less points (from the blueline no less) along with the ability to play against the other team's best players.
While I appreciate what Karlsson brings to the table, don't go insane and compare his production to Stamkos. He doesn't come close to Stamkos in terms of offensive output. 60 goals is game breaking. Sheer minutes played can't account for that - its elite talent. Karlsson had 27 secondary assists, 32 primary assists, 19 goals. While I don't discount Karlsson is a phenomenal offensive talent, a lot of the secondary assists are accounted for through high TOI with top 6ers and has D partner's inability to handle the puck.

You have a good argument, but don't got crazy comparing apples to oranges. Stamkos is a rare breed. Goal production vastly outweighs assists, especially secondary assists. If you want to compare Karlsson to a forward, Joe Thornton would be your comparison (30 primary, 29 secondary)

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:33 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Saying karlsson is better then daughty petro or weber, I kind of ask myself the same question about you that you just asked.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...top+defensemen

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:41 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
While I appreciate what Karlsson brings to the table, don't go insane and compare his production to Stamkos. He doesn't come close to Stamkos in terms of offensive output. 60 goals is game breaking. Sheer minutes played can't account for that - its elite talent. Karlsson had 27 secondary assists, 32 primary assists, 19 goals. While I don't discount Karlsson is a phenomenal offensive talent, a lot of the secondary assists are accounted for through high TOI with top 6ers and has D partner's inability to handle the puck.
Whats wrong with secondary's? Sometimes the secondary had the biggest influence on the goal. Brian Campbell played 150mins more than Karlsson; how come Karlsson had 10 more assists? Shouldn't Campbell have like 10 more assists because he played more?

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:13 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Saying karlsson is better then daughty petro or weber, I kind of ask myself the same question about you that you just asked.
Based on your user name, I assume you are a Leaf fan, so you should have seen Karlsson a few times. If you look at things objectively, you'd see there is a reason he won the Norris, and it goes way, way beyond his historic offensive season. I have watched him play probably 250 games including playoffs, and this kid is more than deserving of that trophy. He is a truly rare and special talent that carries the play every time on the ice, and he is the center of the other team's game plan, because without him, we have no offence. Yes, we have Spezza and Michalek, but everything starts from EK. If he doesn't get the puck up ice, be it carrying it through traffic or those crisp, accurate passes up ice, we don't score. Its that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Good to see Sens fans acknowledging Lundqvist's talent.

Really? Green isn't even in the same Stratosphere as Karlsson offensively and Karlsson has never had anyone the talent level of an Ovechkin to play with.

Green got points playing on a power play with Ovechkin in his 50-60 goal days. Karlsson IS the Sens power play. He's one of the best PP QB's the league has seen since Sergei Zubov and Brian Leetch, who were two of the best ever on the point.

He controlled the pace of the game. Lidstrom, while very good in his own zone and a solid contributor offensively for many years never controlled play like Karlsson did. They play 2 different styles of game. Karlsson of all defenders in the NHL had the greatest impact of any defenseman in the league last year while on ice. He controlled play in all 3 zones. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Its unfortunate Henrik doesn't get more recognition here. On these boards, its like if you are over 25, you are ready for the scrap heap. Just wrong.

I love your comments on Karlsson. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you've probably seen him play a lot, and not just in our series against the Rangers. Its good to know there are some fans out there that aren't complete homers and can recognize superior talent when they see it, even if its not wearing their favourite team's jersey. Props to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Whats wrong with secondary's? Sometimes the secondary had the biggest influence on the goal. Brian Campbell played 150mins more than Karlsson; how come Karlsson had 10 more assists? Shouldn't Campbell have like 10 more assists because he played more?
Nice.

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Old
12-31-2012, 08:47 AM
  #113
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The way i see it, they are two different players: Karlsson is a weapon, while Tavares is a cornerstone. Karlsson is someone who a franchise can use to win a cup, since it's extra offense from an unexpected spot. Tavares is someone who makes the rest of his teammates better. Parenteau and Moulson have become very wealthy men thanks to him. And while EK is the top one or two offensive d-men in the game, his defensive game is nowhere up to par with the other half. Thats not me trying to be a jerk, but theres a reason fans from every other team think he's just average defensively, and yes we watch him. I would rather a franchise centerman than a high-scoring defenseman anyday. Look at all the recent cup winners: with the exception of Boston, all the teams relied on reliable, franchise centers.

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:41 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I just want to remind everyone that this is not a pissing contest. I KNOW that Tavares is EVERYTHING to NYI but let me remind you that this is an online forum where trades are brought up here or else where would we be able to bring em up.

A future top pairing defender, future top 6(or more) in Zibanejad, proven 30 goal scorer, 1st round pick in deep draft.

That makes NYI better, especially if Zibanejad becomes a 70 point 2 way center. However, Tavares is already proven now and he is the only thing keeping that franchise afloat.

It's a good proposal and the value is definitely there, IMO, due to Lehner being added in but in reality will never happen unless some disagreement between Tavares happens or something anytime soon.

Someone posted these:
Neidereitter + Strome + Nielsen + 2014 1st for Karlsson
Moulson+Hamonic+Strome+2013 1st for karlsson

They dont help the Sens in anyway. Nor do they come close to value.

Michalek>=Moulson
Cowen>Hamonic
Zibanejad=<Strome
Lehner>>>>>>>>>>>?
1st=1st

We have all the pieces you are giving us. We offer better rounded pieces to improve your goaltending, your defense and add two top 6ers. One is not as proven but could be better than Michalek.

With all this being said, I don't do this trade. Nope. Lehner will be too important for Ottawa, as will Cowen. Tavares would be phenomenal but we need the pieces just as much.
You are a hoot.

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:47 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SaintTavares View Post
The way i see it, they are two different players: Karlsson is a weapon, while Tavares is a cornerstone. Karlsson is someone who a franchise can use to win a cup, since it's extra offense from an unexpected spot. Tavares is someone who makes the rest of his teammates better. Parenteau and Moulson have become very wealthy men thanks to him. And while EK is the top one or two offensive d-men in the game, his defensive game is nowhere up to par with the other half. Thats not me trying to be a jerk, but theres a reason fans from every other team think he's just average defensively, and yes we watch him. I would rather a franchise centerman than a high-scoring defenseman anyday. Look at all the recent cup winners: with the exception of Boston, all the teams relied on reliable, franchise centers.
Doughty, Chara, Keith, Letang, Lidstrom, Niedermyer, Pronger.

Yes, Karlsson is average defensively for a first pairing dman.

All franchise players make other players better.

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:52 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Doughty, Chara, Keith, Letang, Lidstrom, Niedermyer, Pronger.

Yes, Karlsson is average defensively for a first pairing dman.

All franchise players make other players better.
You forgot Gonchar as well, he was the #1 D on that Pittsburgh team that won the cup.

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:43 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Doughty, Chara, Keith, Letang, Lidstrom, Niedermyer, Pronger.

Yes, Karlsson is average defensively for a first pairing dman.

All franchise players make other players better.
Sureves showed that he is slightly below average defensively for a first pairing dman, just sayin.


Last edited by bleedblue1223: 12-31-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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Old
12-31-2012, 10:47 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Doughty, Chara, Keith, Letang, Lidstrom, Niedermyer, Pronger.

Yes, Karlsson is average defensively for a first pairing dman.

All franchise players make other players better.
Kopitar, Richards, Carter

Crosby, Malkin, Staal

Datsyuk

Getzlaf

With the exception of possibly Getzlaf and Carter, would any cup-contending team take Karlsson over one of these franchise centers? My point was Karlsson would be a luxury, while these guys are building blocks for championship teams. Scoring a bunch of points from a position that doesn't focus on points doesn't make you a franchise player.

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:11 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SaintTavares View Post
Kopitar, Richards, Carter

Crosby, Malkin, Staal

Datsyuk

Getzlaf

With the exception of possibly Getzlaf and Carter, would any cup-contending team take Karlsson over one of these franchise centers? My point was Karlsson would be a luxury, while these guys are building blocks for championship teams. Scoring a bunch of points from a position that doesn't focus on points doesn't make you a franchise player.
My point was you need both.

Karlsson is more than a "scoring a bunch of points from a position that doesn't focus on points" player. Do you not remember him winning that trophy for best all around ability last summer?

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12-31-2012, 12:13 PM
  #120
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1; Nah, if you want Tavares you got to pay a huge overprice. And it will start with Karlsson.

2; Only NYI fans are allowed to create Tavares proposals. 'startainfection' not included.
I laughed ...but it's true

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12-31-2012, 12:14 PM
  #121
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Sureves showed that he is slightly below average defensively for a first pairing dman, just sayin.
close enough.

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Old
01-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Lundqvist always had more value than Tavares.

Yeah I'm taking a guy who's best in the world at his position over a guy who, at best, is 4th.

I'm taking a guy who has had 7 elite seasons over a guy who has had 1.

I'm taking the guy who has taken a franchise from the depths of hell to 6 playoff appearances in 7 years over the guy who has yet to see his team finish higher than 13th (Not his fault, I realize that)

Shocking, I know.
Oh please.....what has hank really one...he's had good years yes but lets he serious if your starting a team your taking tavares over hank and it's not even close....clearly you can win in this league without elite lundqvist because he hasn't won a cup yet and other goalies have...there are plenty of good goalies and you'd be silly to pick hank over Tavares

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01-01-2013, 12:40 PM
  #123
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lol @ anyone who would take Karlsson over Tavares

Karlsson is awesome, but you have no idea what you're missing out on (also in terms of potential) with Tavares if you would take Karlsson.

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01-01-2013, 12:59 PM
  #124
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lol @ anyone who would take Karlsson over Tavares

Karlsson is awesome, but you have no idea what you're missing out on (also in terms of potential) with Tavares if you would take Karlsson.
The playoffs?

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01-01-2013, 01:03 PM
  #125
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The playoffs?
I lol'd.

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