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Drouin...1st overall pick?

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:41 AM
  #76
barrytrotzsneck
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This is why I hate the WJC.

Fans get their only true exposure to young players, and in a short tournament, extrapolate their draft and NHL potential.

Drouin is having a great tournament, and Mackinnon\Jones have fallen a little short of expectations.

Regardless, those two will still be picked before JD.

If it were up to the fans and their armchair scouting of the WJCs, we would have already reserved a spot in the HOF for Nigel Dawes, Jeff Glass, and Anthony Stewart.

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12-31-2012, 10:45 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
This is why I hate the WJC.

Fans get their only true exposure to young players, and in a short tournament, extrapolate their draft and NHL potential.

Drouin is having a great tournament, and Mackinnon\Jones have fallen a little short of expectations.

Regardless, those two will still be picked before JD.

If it were up to the fans and their armchair scouting of the WJCs, we would have already reserved a spot in the HOF for Nigel Dawes, Jeff Glass, and Anthony Stewart.
I agree for the most part but it's not like Drouin is coming out of nowhere. The kid was terrific in Midget AAA. He ended being selected 2nd overall after Nate MacKinnon. Last year he played well for Halifax and was terrific in the playoffs. This year he's ripping the league apart, played great at Canada's camp and he's having an excellent WJC. In most draft years he'd be a legit n'1 overall pick.

I'd still go Drouin over Jones at this point. MacKinnon still being the n'1 guy. That said, WJC is part of the process in evalutating prospects, not the end.

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12-31-2012, 10:47 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
It's possible Drouin could go first overall. You just don't know what teams will do. Personally, I think Barkov is the best of the bunch this year. That's not to say MacKinnon and Drouin are less talented than Barkov, I just think Barkov has the advantage in that he's playing against men and doing really well. The nice thing about the draft this year is that you really can't go wrong with choosing one of Barkov, MacKinnon, Drouin or Jones with the first overall choice. The difference between the four is really minimal. After the top four is where the choices will start to get interesting......
i think barkov is the least of the four

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12-31-2012, 10:55 AM
  #79
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He is making a helluva case for himself.

Ive been really impressed with Drouin and Ristolainen based on tourney and pre-tourney play.

Drouin has Eberle/Giroux upside.

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12-31-2012, 10:55 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
This is why I hate the WJC.

Fans get their only true exposure to young players, and in a short tournament, extrapolate their draft and NHL potential.

Drouin is having a great tournament, and Mackinnon\Jones have fallen a little short of expectations.

Regardless, those two will still be picked before JD.

If it were up to the fans and their armchair scouting of the WJCs, we would have already reserved a spot in the HOF for Nigel Dawes, Jeff Glass, and Anthony Stewart.
Anthony Stewart was 19. So was Nigel Dawes. Absolutely horrible comparisons in my opinion. Their are countless players who have represented Canada and gone on to do nothing special in pro hockey. That is not the case with 17 year olds on Canada. We are talking about 17 year olds. The last 17 y.o's on Team Canada have been..

Jay Bouwmeester
Jason Spezza
Sidney Crosby
Jonathon Toews
Sam Gagner
John Tavares
Steven Stamkos
Ryan Ellis
Evander Kane


Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, RNH all didnt make the team as a 17 year old. What Drouin is doing at 17 is very impressive.


Last edited by bsmith14: 12-31-2012 at 11:01 AM.
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Old
12-31-2012, 11:00 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
Anthony Stewart was 19. So was Nigel Dawes. Absolutely horrible comparisons in my opinion. Their are countless players who have represented Canada and gone on to do nothing special in pro hockey. That is not the case with 17 year olds on Canada. We are talking about 17 year olds. The last 17 y.o's on Team Canada have been..

Sidney Crosby
Jonathon Toews
Sam Gagner
John Tavares
Steven Stamkos
Ryan Ellis
Evander Kane


Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, RNH all didnt make the team as a 17 year old. What Drouin is doing at 17 is very impressive.
Absolutely. Good post. Its not just the points either, it is his skill set on display. This guy makes things happen when he is on the ice, whether any points result or not, he generates scoring chances. I think he is top three in that regard on the team and how many times has anyone been able to say that about a seventeen yr old in the WJC for team Canada?

Things working against him are his size and position. If he were a center and a couple inches taller/20lbs heavier he would be in conversation for first overall easily.

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Old
12-31-2012, 11:03 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Absolutely. Good post. Its not just the points either, it is his skill set on display. This guy makes things happen when he is on the ice, whether any points result or not, he generates scoring chances. I think he is top three in that regard on the team and how many times has anyone been able to say that about a seventeen yr old in the WJC for team Canada?

Things working against him are his size and position. If he were a center and a couple inches taller/20lbs heavier he would be in conversation for first overall easily.
If this was the case I think 1st overall would be his for sure.

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12-31-2012, 11:07 AM
  #83
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Calm down there folks, he aint the #1 pick. All the halifax fans would agree with me when they see this lol.
I am not interested in what fans think, I am interested in what the scouts think. There has been rumblings that some scouts prefer Drouin to MacKinnon. Right now its all hearsay until the draft, but I think there will be more and more of those types of rumours floating around, especially after this WJC.

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12-31-2012, 11:12 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post

Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, RNH all didnt make the team as a 17 year old. What Drouin is doing at 17 is very impressive.
Splitting hairs but Hall was barely 18 and he was in his draft year when he made the team. He put up 6 goals and 12 points in 6 games.

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12-31-2012, 11:14 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Splitting hairs but Hall was barely 18 and he was in his draft year when he made the team. He put up 6 goals and 12 points in 6 games.
It was his third year playing junior hockey, hence his 18 year old season development wise. Splitting hairs yes, but I believe that it is important to make the distinction

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12-31-2012, 11:28 AM
  #86
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A lot of people are like... but but but... that's only a few games.

But the truth is that Drouin has been better than MacKinnon since August. Not since December 26th.

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12-31-2012, 11:40 AM
  #87
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I can't see Drouin going number 1 but I can see him going 3-5 in the draft if his play keeps up the rest of season and is huge in the playoffs/memorial cup.

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12-31-2012, 11:45 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, RNH all didnt make the team as a 17 year old. What Drouin is doing at 17 is very impressive.
17 year old's just flat out don't make the team unless they have a complete game or are brought to play a specific role because of lack of depth on the team (Tavares for example).

RNH was too small, Hall was told even in his second camp that he would not make the team unless he put more emphasis on being team oriented, and Seguin was in a similar boat.. All of these guys also had a bunch of older players to compete with.

The fact is that Drouin probably would not have made it in the 2009 as a 17 year old either (same year that Seguin and Hall did not make it) as Canada were pretty strong at the forward position.

Don't get me wrong I love the way Drouin has been playing (and as others have noted he has been great leading up to the tournament itself and all season for that matter), but I think we need to temper our expectations a bit.. If he was a natural center and maybe a few inches taller I think he would have a chance, but this draft is far too strong IMO for him to move past 3rd OVR..

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12-31-2012, 11:56 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by omnicronx View Post
17 year old's just flat out don't make the team unless they have a complete game or are brought to play a specific role because of lack of depth on the team (Tavares for example).

RNH was too small, Hall was told even in his second camp that he would not make the team unless he put more emphasis on being team oriented, and Seguin was in a similar boat.. All of these guys also had a bunch of older players to compete with.

The fact is that Drouin probably would not have made it in the 2009 as a 17 year old either (same year that Seguin and Hall did not make it) as Canada were pretty strong at the forward position.

Don't get me wrong I love the way Drouin has been playing (and as others have noted he has been great leading up to the tournament itself and all season for that matter), but I think we need to temper our expectations a bit.. If he was a natural center and maybe a few inches taller I think he would have a chance, but this draft is far too strong IMO for him to move past 3rd OVR..
It is impossible to know that he wouldnt have made it. Canada is very deep at forward this year as well. There is nothing wrong with tempering expectations, it is easy to get carried away during this tournament. With that said I think it is unfair to say Drouin is not in the conversation for 1st overall right now. Every year HF thinks that the draft has "locks" to go top 3, top 5, top 10 etc. At this time last year Grigorenko was a "lock" to go top 10. Forsberg was a "lock" to go top 5. Fowler was a "lock" to go top 3 in his year. Adam Larsson was ranked ahead of RNH at midterm by many scouts. To say Drouin could not go 1st overall is downright silly.

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12-31-2012, 11:59 AM
  #90
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MacKinnon still has to be considered the #1 pick. He's physically stronger, probably a bit faster, and has been great for two consecutive years. I do, however, see a Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin type draft. At the end of the day, Taylor Hall was still easily the conensus #1, but everyone agreed they were just about equal players.

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12-31-2012, 12:25 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Beesfan View Post
MacKinnon still has to be considered the #1 pick. He's physically stronger, probably a bit faster, and has been great for two consecutive years. I do, however, see a Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin type draft. At the end of the day, Taylor Hall was still easily the conensus #1, but everyone agreed they were just about equal players.
If there's still 1 area that MacKinnon dominates Drouin in, its his speed.

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12-31-2012, 12:34 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
It is impossible to know that. Canada is very deep at forward this year as well. There is nothing wrong with tempering expectations, it is easy to get carried away during this tournament. With that said I think it is unfair to say Drouin is not in the conversation for 1st overall right now. Every year HF thinks that the draft has "locks" to go top 3, top 5, top 10 etc. At this time last year Grigorenko was a "lock" to go top 10. Forsberg was a "lock" to go top 5. Fowler was a "lock" to go top 3 in his year. To say Drouin could not go 1st overall is downright silly.
Of course its impossible to know for sure. I'm just stating that it was a very strong year at forward and based on the players (with one of which having a very similar skillset and playing style) its not that much of a reach to think he would not have made it. We are weak at LW this year, and that has definitely helped Drouin not only make the team, but give him at chance at top 6 minutes, I don't think anyone here can debate that..

As for what people on HF think, that is completely irrelevant. While it may have been a consensus between the fans on a hockey board, that was flat out not the case in the hockey world. Grigo had lots of doubt cast around him long before the draft and while most did not think he would drop from the top 10, it was not exactly a surprise to see him drop in the draft based on what teams and scouts had been saying.

HF aside, the hockey world has deemed Mackinnon and Jones as the top 2, and until we hear otherwise I don't see how you can consider Drouin as anything but a longshot.(I also never said he couldnt go #1, I just find it highly unlikely based on the position he plays and his size.. )

I just don't feel that a strong showing at the WJC is going to dramatically alter his chances at being in the top 2. Unless Mackinnon or Jones completely fall off in the second half of the season, I just don't see what would tip the scales to push him into the top 2.

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12-31-2012, 12:44 PM
  #93
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The MacKinnon vs Drouin debate is similar to Taylor Hall vs Jordan Eberle imo. Skill sets and playing styles at least.

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12-31-2012, 12:47 PM
  #94
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I'd still take MacKinnon first overall because he's basically a complete player, while Drouin is [mostly] strictly offense.

The WJC is a great tournament for prospects to break out. Drouin was all ready a top prospect but I think this tournament definitely cemented his top 3 status.

To me, MacKinnon reminds me a lot of Tyler Seguin in his style of play, while Drouin is similar to Pat Kane in his style.

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12-31-2012, 12:55 PM
  #95
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At this point, there isn't anybody in the draft that I can see taking first from MacKinnon. The kid is one of the most complete forwards to come along in the past few years. His offense is every bit as good as Drouin's, he's more physical, he's better defensively. And like it or not, position plays a factor.


edit: basically what has already been said several times before my post.

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12-31-2012, 01:16 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
I am not interested in what fans think, I am interested in what the scouts think. There has been rumblings that some scouts prefer Drouin to MacKinnon. Right now its all hearsay until the draft, but I think there will be more and more of those types of rumours floating around, especially after this WJC.
Other than guys making posts about it on HF boards I haven't seen anything like this at all.

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12-31-2012, 01:26 PM
  #97
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Why is Lindholm an afterthought in all these threads?

He's the one guy whose impressed me the most in this tournament

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12-31-2012, 01:27 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Call me Suds View Post
I figured if Mackinnon made the team Drouin would too but I figured it would be to play together lol

Drouin has great hands and throws the puck to the net every chance he gets but I find every time he's doing something, he's standing still. That can work in junior when your hands are so quick but it doesn't translate to the NHL unless you have a Joe Thornton frame.

He still has plenty of time to develop but hopefully whoever picks him lets him develop properly and doesn't rush him to the NHL.
Really? The two goals I've seen were a breakaway (definitely not standing still) and a wrap around today when he beat the defender and goalie. He doesn't seem like that type to me?

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12-31-2012, 01:29 PM
  #99
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Other than guys making posts about it on HF boards I haven't seen anything like this at all.
Fair enough, I thought I saw a list that had Drouin at 1...

Ah my bad, I was thinking RLR had him at 1. I was wrong.

There was some talk on the friday night hockey where someone said they talked to a scout who had Drouin at 1. I realize this is all pretty uncertain lol.

EDIT: RLR had him at 2, but was ahead of MacKinnon who was at 3 in the Nov report.

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12-31-2012, 01:37 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Why is Lindholm an afterthought in all these threads?

He's the one guy whose impressed me the most in this tournament
I have Lindholm 3rd overall behind Jones and MacKinnon. For what it's worth (probably not much).

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