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Drouin...1st overall pick?

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:37 PM
  #101
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
Fair enough, I thought I saw a list that had Drouin at 1...

Ah my bad, I was thinking RLR had him at 1. I was wrong.

There was some talk on the friday night hockey where someone said they talked to a scout who had Drouin at 1. I realize this is all pretty uncertain lol.

EDIT: RLR had him at 2, but was ahead of MacKinnon who was at 3 in the Nov report.
there might be the odd scout out there who likes him at one but say each NHL team has 3 scouts and has seen the top guys play,

-Nathan would be 1 on 85 plus and top 2 in all 90
-Seth might be 1 on the other 5 (that's a stretch though) and top 2 in 88 or so
-Barkov in top 3 of 50 maybe, top 5 in all
-Drouin in top 3 of just a little under where Barkov is
-Lindholm in top 5 of a few less, but with size and defensive awareness might be picked over a guy like Drouin depending on how an NHL team thinks the 2 will translate in NHL players


that's how I see it going down.

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12-31-2012, 01:38 PM
  #102
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Well I think it will still be between MacK and Jones, but you cant go wrong with Drouin. Wouldnt surprise me if there are teams out there that think Drouin has more offensive upside and have him ranked higher than Nate.

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12-31-2012, 01:45 PM
  #103
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4 WJC games and everyone's a pro scout.

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12-31-2012, 01:53 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
there might be the odd scout out there who likes him at one but say each NHL team has 3 scouts and has seen the top guys play,

-Nathan would be 1 on 85 plus and top 2 in all 90
-Seth might be 1 on the other 5 (that's a stretch though) and top 2 in 88 or so
-Barkov in top 3 of 50 maybe, top 5 in all
-Drouin in top 3 of just a little under where Barkov is
-Lindholm in top 5 of a few less, but with size and defensive awareness might be picked over a guy like Drouin depending on how an NHL team thinks the 2 will translate in NHL players


that's how I see it going down.
Glad you added the last sentence, because too many of your posts dress up your opinions like they are facts.

I just don't know how you come up with these things.

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12-31-2012, 01:59 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Leviathan View Post
Well I think it will still be between MacK and Jones, but you cant go wrong with Drouin. Wouldnt surprise me if there are teams out there that think Drouin has more offensive upside and have him ranked higher than Nate.
I think so, too. I think it will probably be MacK, Jones, Barkov with Drouin going 4th or 5th depending on who's drafting and the team's list. In any event, I doubt he goes later than 6th.

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12-31-2012, 02:03 PM
  #106
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No, Drouin's a lock now for the top 4 or 5 IMO but MacKinnon, Jones and Barkov are all better than him.

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12-31-2012, 02:04 PM
  #107
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Lindholm is the real deal, IMO. Kid is incredible. Would not be surprised when the time comes, that he pushes for #1. The complete package.

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12-31-2012, 02:06 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
there might be the odd scout out there who likes him at one but say each NHL team has 3 scouts and has seen the top guys play,

-Nathan would be 1 on 85 plus and top 2 in all 90
-Seth might be 1 on the other 5 (that's a stretch though) and top 2 in 88 or so
-Barkov in top 3 of 50 maybe, top 5 in all
-Drouin in top 3 of just a little under where Barkov is
-Lindholm in top 5 of a few less, but with size and defensive awareness might be picked over a guy like Drouin depending on how an NHL team thinks the 2 will translate in NHL players


that's how I see it going down.
I imagine most will still have Seth and Nathan in the top 2, after that though I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of variance among different teams with the group you named.

The way I see it, if you do a kind of a shortish report on what kind of a player they project to, what sets them apart...in no order:

MacKinnon:
- skating
- skill
- compete

Jones:
- size/reach
- athletic abillity
- ability to dictate/control flow of the game from backend

Barkov:
- size
- hockey IQ/vision

Drouin:
- skill
- hockey IQ/vision

Lindholm
- compete
- hockey IQ/vision

That's a very rough guideline, but I expect Nathan and Seth to go 1-2 after that though it will kind of depend on what type of player a team favors. Personally I'd be inclined to go Lindholm, I think he has the best hockey IQ in the entire draft, I love that he competes, that he goes to the dirty areas, his vision is fantastic and he has a decent enough size and skill level, his skating is decent as well, it's hard to find a fault in him. He has the three things that I love in spades - hockey IQ, compete level, and the desire to go to the dirty areas, attack the net and create havoc. I don't think he's as naturally skilled as Drouin or as physically dominant as Barkov, but as a package I love what he brings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
4 WJC games and everyone's a pro scout.
Don't you mean an amateur scout?

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12-31-2012, 02:13 PM
  #109
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So WJC is irrelevant to evaluate prospects? Do I detect some hypocrisy here?

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12-31-2012, 02:15 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by InterceptSchenn View Post
Lindholm is the real deal, IMO. Kid is incredible. Would not be surprised when the time comes, that he pushes for #1. The complete package.
I just don't believe the hype anymore about Swedish prospects.

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12-31-2012, 03:03 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan View Post
Well I think it will still be between MacK and Jones, but you cant go wrong with Drouin. Wouldnt surprise me if there are teams out there that think Drouin has more offensive upside and have him ranked higher than Nate.
Agreed. And you never know, maybe there's no season and a team like Chicago wins the lottery and decides to take Drouin since they already have Toews and Bolland. There's too many variables at this point to rule him out

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12-31-2012, 03:09 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
4 WJC games and everyone's a pro scout.
Please. Drouin has been the better player since the beginning of the current QMJHL season. His progress this season has been most impressive amongst draft eligible players too. This "debate" started before the WJHC.

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12-31-2012, 03:10 PM
  #113
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I just don't believe the hype anymore about Swedish prospects.
Have you seen Elias Lindholm play?

If you haven't, watch him and get back to me

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12-31-2012, 03:11 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
Anthony Stewart was 19. So was Nigel Dawes. Absolutely horrible comparisons in my opinion. Their are countless players who have represented Canada and gone on to do nothing special in pro hockey. That is not the case with 17 year olds on Canada. We are talking about 17 year olds. The last 17 y.o's on Team Canada have been..

Jay Bouwmeester
Jason Spezza
Sidney Crosby
Jonathon Toews
Sam Gagner
John Tavares
Steven Stamkos
Ryan Ellis
Evander Kane


Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, RNH all didnt make the team as a 17 year old. What Drouin is doing at 17 is very impressive.
Okay, to use a more recent example:

17 year old Jordan Schroeder, on the 2008 USA WJC team. Finished second on the team in scoring, had everyone at HF buzzing about his potential to be the next star American forward, drawing comparisons to performances by other highly touted young USA players-- Phil Kessel and Patrick Kane, notably. Even when his draft year--2009--rolled around, he was expected by most to go top 10, and there was a measure of shock when he fell to 22.

Where is he now? An average player in the AHL that may eventually see some NHL time, but not likely as an impact player.

I'm just saying...a single short tournament isn't enough to shoot someone up to number 1. It's the only opportunity for fans to play "scout," so we sometimes get carried away.

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12-31-2012, 03:21 PM
  #115
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It's amazing how deep this draft is. I think had he been in last years draft he'd definitely be in talks for first overall. It's hard to gauge his value, particularly when compared to Mackinnon in this tournament, since Drouin is getting more of an oppurtunity to be successful compared to Nathan. I think Mack is more complete and will be taken ahead of Drouin, but I think he can certainly be in the talks for top 3 or 4, with guys like Barkov, and Lindholm. Nonethless, this kid is going to be special and anyone who drafts in the top 5 is going to have a legitimate star in their hands, especially with a guy like Drouin.

If a team like Boston, LA kings, Pittsburgh, or Philly drafts in the top 5, I would be disappointed, this is the draft where bad teams can actually turn around their franchises with players like these in their line up in the near future. Great draft.

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12-31-2012, 03:24 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
Okay, to use a more recent example:

17 year old Jordan Schroeder, on the 2008 USA WJC team. Finished second on the team in scoring, had everyone at HF buzzing about his potential to be the next star American forward, drawing comparisons to performances by other highly touted young USA players-- Phil Kessel and Patrick Kane, notably. Even when his draft year--2009--rolled around, he was expected by most to go top 10, and there was a measure of shock when he fell to 22.

Where is he now? An average player in the AHL that may eventually see some NHL time, but not likely as an impact player.

I'm just saying...a single short tournament isn't enough to shoot someone up to number 1. It's the only opportunity for fans to play "scout," so we sometimes get carried away.
It's still far to early to label Schroeder a bust, he just turned 22.

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12-31-2012, 03:36 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
It's still far to early to label Schroeder a bust, he just turned 22.
I think his point was that Schroeder hasn't lived up to the hype that surrounded him after his WJC performance. I would agree with him on that, but I still would argue there are more good NHL players than busts when it comes to 17 year olds who have had offensive impacts on Canada, USA or Russia.

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12-31-2012, 03:49 PM
  #118
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Drouin reminds me of Claude Giroux. Sick hands, best in the next draft. 1rst overall consideration will begin. Stands out at the world junior, blows away Mackinnon and Jones.

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12-31-2012, 03:50 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
I think his point was that Schroeder hasn't lived up to the hype that surrounded him after his WJC performance. I would agree with him on that, but I still would argue there are more good NHL players than busts when it comes to 17 year olds who have had offensive impacts on Canada, USA or Russia.
To be fair, the reason Schroeder's stock was so high was in large part how he was doing in college.

The guy scored 45 points in 35 games as a draft eligible kid playing college hockey, I bet there aren't a lot of guys who managed to do that - hell, there aren't that many draft eligible guys playing NCAA hockey at all. His U20 performance was more a confirmation of his college performance than anything else.

His argument was as ridiculous as saying we shouldn't consider performance in junior or college hockey when considering prospects.

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12-31-2012, 03:52 PM
  #120
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Possibly. He's kindof a blend of Alexes -- Alex Kovalev and Alex Tanguay, but with a never-say-die attitude.

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12-31-2012, 03:52 PM
  #121
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Lol at everyone saying that MacKinnon isn't the consensus #1 pick. It's him and then up in the air for everybody else. Drouin making his push here only makes it harder for the #2 pick to choose between defence or offence. If you're Nashville, you go Drouin and you eventually pair him with someone who will open up the ice for him (Colin Wilson) to dangle and see who will finish (or finish himself). If you're Detroit by any chance, absolutely go Drouin with 2 or 3. You go MacKinnon #1 absolutely. He is a game changer and as I've already read, has the intangibles to bring a championship to a team while producing. Drouin is great, but he's not #1 while MacKinnon is in the same draft. He's making a great case for himself, no doubt, but MacKinnon will singlehanded win us next years World Juniors providing he is not stupidly put in the NHL (both need an extra year or 2 to complete their game [Jones does not necessarily depending what team chooses him]).

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12-31-2012, 03:52 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I'd stil go Jones, said that since day 1. I'm of the realization that Drouin being a more valuable player on the WJC team doesn't speak to their NHL futures.

Jones comes off as one of the freakiest athletes to ever wear skates. He may stand 6'5-6'6 someday and he's got the agility and footwork of an NBA player.

I also think that if USA hockey gets anymore athletes of Seth Jones' pedigree, athletes that could otherwise play high levels of football or basketball...they'll start handing us our ***** in international competition at the highest level of hockey. I think he could be dominant.
So because his dad practiced his ass off to make the NBA, Seth automatically acquires all of his skills through genetics? I'm also not sure why these skills translate to success in hockey, but if this is what does it for you then go with it.

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12-31-2012, 03:53 PM
  #123
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If it was about PURE skill, Drouin would likely go first. The problem is, the draft is about skill and whether it can translate to the NHL level. The NHL is a brutal league from a physical standpoint and what Drouin is great at will NOT happen in the NHL. He won't be able to dangle around and stick handle the way he is right now - he'll get laid out time and time again in the NHL. Mackinnon and Jones' game will likely translate given their style and size. Drouin's may or may not, but more of a bust factor.

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12-31-2012, 03:54 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Glad you added the last sentence, because too many of your posts dress up your opinions like they are facts.

I just don't know how you come up with these things.
pretty much every post from everyone here is an opinion.

I do alot of reading and watch as much stuff as I can and don't wear any team hats, try to filter as objectively as possible.

After you read my posts, you decide what follows.

Too often people just throw stuff out there though without thinking very much and I try not to do that when possible.

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12-31-2012, 03:59 PM
  #125
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So because his dad practiced his ass off to make the NBA, Seth automatically acquires all of his skills through genetics? I'm also not sure why these skills translate to success in hockey, but if this is what does it for you then go with it.
what?

he said nothing about genetics. He said he has elite footwork for a guy his size. It makes him a rare talent.

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