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Old
12-31-2012, 01:15 PM
  #726
BigZ65
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Depending on how the ping-pong balls bounce, we could do a lot worse than picking Drouin. Kind of forward we need who can skate and has good hands. Unlike Kane, he wouldn't have to learn how to pass the puck.

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12-31-2012, 01:18 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Forsberg - question his stick skills, but the kid plays hard and has heart.

Grigorenko - has great stick skills, but i question whether he gives a damn on the ice.

Teravainen - great stick skills, slick, just small.

IMO, i think Forsberg and Teravainen will be better pros, because they seem to have the will to succeed or contribute in some way. Grigs just floats far too much for my liking. I have similar concerns with Jet's pick, Telegin, and Telegin gives much more of an effort than Grigs most of the time.
Those are all fair critiques, but I still think each of those three has a shot at becoming a quality top line player in the NHL. It will be interesting to see how they develop down the road.

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12-31-2012, 01:31 PM
  #728
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Those are all fair critiques, but I still think each of those three has a shot at becoming a quality top line player in the NHL. It will be interesting to see how they develop down the road.
Yup. It sure will.

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12-31-2012, 03:16 PM
  #729
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Idk about you guys but Scheifele is starting to worry me. The way he gets pounded game after game is concerning. It's good to go hard and compete, but he needs to start finding a way to dodge some of these checks. He will not last long in the NHL if he gets punished like this on a game in game out basis.

Yakupov to me is nothing special. I do not like his style at all. I haven't watched him a tonne so I guess my opinion isn't written in stone, nor should it be relied upon. However the games I have seen of him haven't wowed me at all. I would much rather have a guy like Nichushkin who seems to grind it out more like a Canadian guy.

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12-31-2012, 03:28 PM
  #730
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Idk about you guys but Scheifele is starting to worry me. The way he gets pounded game after game is concerning. It's good to go hard and compete, but he needs to start finding a way to dodge some of these checks. He will not last long in the NHL if he gets punished like this on a game in game out basis.

Yakupov to me is nothing special. I do not like his style at all. I haven't watched him a tonne so I guess my opinion isn't written in stone, nor should it be relied upon. However the games I have seen of him haven't wowed me at all. I would much rather have a guy like Nichushkin who seems to grind it out more like a Canadian guy.
+1 to both.

Scheifele still needs to improve his skating to really be effective in the NHL. The difference in "elusiveness" between him and the top players is night and day - Drouin playing on that line only further highlights that. So far he doesn't seem injury riddled though so maybe he can take a hit better than you're giving him credit for, even if it means he gets knocked on his ass a dozen times a game.

Yakupov's performance has to be extremely disappointing to both Russia and Edmonton. He's trying more one-on-one dekes than any other player and succeeding far less than some. Playing on the large ice especially he should be a star player. Drouin's play, even ignoring the fact he's a year younger, has made Yakupov look like a chump.

Now we just need something that rhymes with Drouin and has to do with lottery balls. Any help?

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12-31-2012, 03:32 PM
  #731
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+1 to both.

Scheifele still needs to improve his skating to really be effective in the NHL. The difference in "elusiveness" between him and the top players is night and day - Drouin playing on that line only further highlights that. So far he doesn't seem injury riddled though so maybe he can take a hit better than you're giving him credit for, even if it means he gets knocked on his ass a dozen times a game.

Yakupov's performance has to be extremely disappointing to both Russia and Edmonton. He's trying more one-on-one dekes than any other player and succeeding far less than some. Playing on the large ice especially he should be a star player. Drouin's play, even ignoring the fact he's a year younger, has made Yakupov look like a chump.

Now we just need something that rhymes with Drouin and has to do with lottery balls. Any help?
Poo-in the bed for Drouin?

Sorry.

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12-31-2012, 04:14 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Idk about you guys but Scheifele is starting to worry me. The way he gets pounded game after game is concerning. It's good to go hard and compete, but he needs to start finding a way to dodge some of these checks. He will not last long in the NHL if he gets punished like this on a game in game out basis.

Yakupov to me is nothing special. I do not like his style at all. I haven't watched him a tonne so I guess my opinion isn't written in stone, nor should it be relied upon. However the games I have seen of him haven't wowed me at all. I would much rather have a guy like Nichushkin who seems to grind it out more like a Canadian guy.
Ya, the larger ice was supposed to make it harder to get hit, with more room to move, but Scheifele seemed to play a bit better on the smaller ice with the Canada/Russia summer challenge - playing a physical game.

But i'm not that concerned, tbh. I think Scheifele will play a slightly different game in the NHL. Ideally, his pre-season form will be what he develops into (impacting the game in the same way with his vision and skill, but against better competition). He'll use his 2-way game more, creating offensive chances while showing sound defensive positional play.

I don't think he'll be as physical in the NHL, as he's trying to be at the WJC. Right now he's doing the dirty work, battling on the boards to get pucks to Nuge, or going to the net/standing in the slot looking for a shot (or rebound) opportunity - like his goal today. On TC, he's got the size to play that role, but in the NHL, i don't see him playing that way.

Guess i'm saying he's a shooter (goal scorer) this tournament, but normally a playmaker (assist machine) in junior hockey and likely in the NHL. That's why it likely makes sense to pair him with a shooter like Kane in the NHL, vs having him be the trigger man. Just my 2 cents.

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12-31-2012, 04:21 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Idk about you guys but Scheifele is starting to worry me. The way he gets pounded game after game is concerning. It's good to go hard and compete, but he needs to start finding a way to dodge some of these checks. He will not last long in the NHL if he gets punished like this on a game in game out basis.

Yakupov to me is nothing special. I do not like his style at all. I haven't watched him a tonne so I guess my opinion isn't written in stone, nor should it be relied upon. However the games I have seen of him haven't wowed me at all. I would much rather have a guy like Nichushkin who seems to grind it out more like a Canadian guy.
Agree on Mark with an asterisk (of coarse )

Part of why hey eats shots is he is willing to pay the price and compete no matter what it takes and I love that about him. However I don't want to have a Buck Pierce part 2.

I think one solution is he needs to get up to about 210 pounds in the next 2 or 3 years and continue to improve his skating and then pick his battles just a bit more. his "give to take" ratio is better this year than last but he does take too many shots. size, strength, and better skating will help him elude and absorb contact better. He will need to be coached on this area of his game as well. I want to see him continue to compete in the dirty areas but he will need to get bigger.

Yak is not looking good ar all.......for now I will look at it as a captain on home soil who is forcing it AWAY too much. Very individualistic and easy to shut down today.

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12-31-2012, 04:24 PM
  #734
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Ya, the larger ice was supposed to make it harder to get hit, with more room to move, but Scheifele seemed to play a bit better on the smaller ice with the Canada/Russia summer challenge - playing a physical game.

But i'm not that concerned, tbh. I think Scheifele will play a slightly different game in the NHL. Ideally, his pre-season form will be what he develops into (impacting the game in the same way with his vision and skill, but against better competition). He'll use his 2-way game more, creating offensive chances while showing sound defensive positional play.

I don't think he'll be as physical in the NHL, as he's trying to be at the WJC. Right now he's doing the dirty work, battling on the boards to get pucks to Nuge, or going to the net/standing in the slot looking for a shot (or rebound) opportunity - like his goal today. On TC, he's got the size to play that role, but in the NHL, i don't see him playing that way.

Guess i'm saying he's a shooter (goal scorer) this tournament, but normally a playmaker (assist machine) in junior hockey and likely in the NHL. That's why it likely makes sense to pair him with a shooter like Kane in the NHL, vs having him be the trigger man. Just my 2 cents.
Good post Bob

Maybe let's mash our ideas

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12-31-2012, 04:25 PM
  #735
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One thing to remember about Scheif in this tourney - he's playing out of position. Board battles are much more common at wing, vs. a center going in to help out / cause havoc.

With the strides we've seen in his skating in just one year, I think he'll be fine once he's ready for the bigs. A bit more concentration on adding a few more pounds and improving his skating next summer, and he'll be fine. He's got too much compete in him to not improve his weak areas.

If not, he's always got Hartnell to look up to.


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12-31-2012, 04:52 PM
  #736
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That's an awesome video.

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12-31-2012, 05:05 PM
  #737
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Agree on Mark with an asterisk (of coarse )

Part of why hey eats shots is he is willing to pay the price and compete no matter what it takes and I love that about him. However I don't want to have a Buck Pierce part 2.

I think one solution is he needs to get up to about 210 pounds in the next 2 or 3 years and continue to improve his skating and then pick his battles just a bit more. his "give to take" ratio is better this year than last but he does take too many shots. size, strength, and better skating will help him elude and absorb contact better. He will need to be coached on this area of his game as well. I want to see him continue to compete in the dirty areas but he will need to get bigger.

Yak is not looking good ar all.......for now I will look at it as a captain on home soil who is forcing it AWAY too much. Very individualistic and easy to shut down today.
Sounds good to me. i'm all for him getting bigger, stronger and working on his skating a bit - to play a bit of a physical game, if he needs to, in a game.

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12-31-2012, 05:11 PM
  #738
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Sounds good to me. i'm all for him getting bigger, stronger and working on his skating a bit - to play a bit of a physical game, if he needs to, in a game.
Sold....and I love your idea of the redeployment bob

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12-31-2012, 05:12 PM
  #739
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Idk about you guys but Scheifele is starting to worry me. The way he gets pounded game after game is concerning. It's good to go hard and compete, but he needs to start finding a way to dodge some of these checks. He will not last long in the NHL if he gets punished like this on a game in game out basis.
I said that back when he played his first few exhibition games. He lets his guard down after the play ends, and seems to get clipped by opposing players quite easily.

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12-31-2012, 05:37 PM
  #740
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One thing to remember about Scheif in this tourney - he's playing out of position. Board battles are much more common at wing, vs. a center going in to help out / cause havoc.

With the strides we've seen in his skating in just one year, I think he'll be fine once he's ready for the bigs. A bit more concentration on adding a few more pounds and improving his skating next summer, and he'll be fine. He's got too much compete in him to not improve his weak areas.

If not, he's always got Hartnell to look up to.

Great post. Scheifele just might end up being a truely unique player that doesn't really compare to many others. Balance might always be an issue, but things happen when he is on the ice. He has great hockey sence, good vision, good shot and he does what it takes. Thank God he is 6.3" and will probably end up well over 200 lbs. I have little doubt he will be major part of the Jets one day. Maybe it's time someone comes up with a good nickname for him?

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12-31-2012, 05:52 PM
  #741
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Agree on Mark with an asterisk (of coarse )

Part of why hey eats shots is he is willing to pay the price and compete no matter what it takes and I love that about him. However I don't want to have a Buck Pierce part 2.

I think one solution is he needs to get up to about 210 pounds in the next 2 or 3 years and continue to improve his skating and then pick his battles just a bit more. his "give to take" ratio is better this year than last but he does take too many shots. size, strength, and better skating will help him elude and absorb contact better. He will need to be coached on this area of his game as well. I want to see him continue to compete in the dirty areas but he will need to get bigger.

Yak is not looking good ar all.......for now I will look at it as a captain on home soil who is forcing it AWAY too much. Very individualistic and easy to shut down today.
I agree with Jet that I hope Scheifele takes less hits going forward, but I think PS241 hit the nail on the head here.

IMO, Scheifele is getting hit a lot because he is doing exactly what the coaching staff has asked him to do. Go to the dirty areas and take abuse in front of the net. Plus he is taking more abuse being out of his normal position and playing more along the boards.

While he is never going to be skating like Bure, I think the concerns about his skating are being vastly overstated.

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12-31-2012, 05:53 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Idk about you guys but Scheifele is starting to worry me. The way he gets pounded game after game is concerning. It's good to go hard and compete, but he needs to start finding a way to dodge some of these checks. He will not last long in the NHL if he gets punished like this on a game in game out basis.

Yakupov to me is nothing special. I do not like his style at all. I haven't watched him a tonne so I guess my opinion isn't written in stone, nor should it be relied upon. However the games I have seen of him haven't wowed me at all. I would much rather have a guy like Nichushkin who seems to grind it out more like a Canadian guy.
I imagine the plan is to send Mark to Gary Roberts camp this summer similar to what they did with Lowry last year. I imagine he didnt go last year because the Jets probably didn't think he was phsically ready at that point and secondly they didn't want to put him through that intense a program after the long year he had the previous year. All in all im not that concerened, as has been mentioned he probably wont be playing as much of a trench/grinding role in the NHL as well I have no doubt that Mark will continue to improve his balance and strength over the next few years given his work ethic and character.

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12-31-2012, 06:03 PM
  #743
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I imagine the plan is to send Mark to Gary Roberts camp this summer similar to what they did with Lowry last year. I imagine he didnt go last year because the Jets probably didn't think he was phsically ready at that point and secondly they didn't want to put him through that intense a program after the long year he had the previous year. All in all im not that concerened, as has been mentioned he probably wont be playing as much of a trench/grinding role in the NHL as well I have no doubt that Mark will continue to improve his balance and strength over the next few years given his work ethic and character.
Agree - would love to see him in a good camp like the Roberts camp, concentrating on the areas that need improvement. I've seen (as you all have) some great improvement in his skating in OHL games this year - his top speed is fine now, even for the NHL. He's no Wheeler, but he's definitely got the wheels to keep up.

His main failings now are: strength on his skates / balance, and first step. Some powerskating drills and concentration on areas that improve his explosiveness will help those areas. When I was a young whipper-snapper, I spent two summers taking my skating from fast with sluggish acceleration, to fast with quick acceleration. I'm sure Scheifele's more athletic than I ever was, so if I can do it, there's no reason he can't. He's got the drive and determination to fix this problem.

And, unlike me, he doesn't have hands of stone, and isn't built like a running-back, so he's got those things going for him. PS: also agree with Huffer that he's doing exactly what's been asked of him in this tourney, which are things that are a bit foreign to his game. He's sticking with it like a trooper.

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12-31-2012, 06:30 PM
  #744
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I have to say it was really nice to see the crowd really get into the game. To me it seemed like a great atmosphere in the arena.

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12-31-2012, 07:36 PM
  #745
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Agree - would love to see him in a good camp like the Roberts camp, concentrating on the areas that need improvement. I've seen (as you all have) some great improvement in his skating in OHL games this year - his top speed is fine now, even for the NHL. He's no Wheeler, but he's definitely got the wheels to keep up.

His main failings now are: strength on his skates / balance, and first step. Some powerskating drills and concentration on areas that improve his explosiveness will help those areas. When I was a young whipper-snapper, I spent two summers taking my skating from fast with sluggish acceleration, to fast with quick acceleration. I'm sure Scheifele's more athletic than I ever was, so if I can do it, there's no reason he can't. He's got the drive and determination to fix this problem.

And, unlike me, he doesn't have hands of stone, and isn't built like a running-back, so he's got those things going for him. PS: also agree with Huffer that he's doing exactly what's been asked of him in this tourney, which are things that are a bit foreign to his game. He's sticking with it like a trooper.
And the team is having success, so I'm sure the coaches don't see the need to change anything with him, at the moment.

They knew it would be a challenge for him to play the wing. Spott even said, we'll see how it goes with Mark on RW and move him if they needed to. Obviously, to this point, they must be pretty pleased with his game. And they have two solid scoring lines. All is good with TC. Let's hope it continues.

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12-31-2012, 11:55 PM
  #746
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Agree - would love to see him in a good camp like the Roberts camp, concentrating on the areas that need improvement. I've seen (as you all have) some great improvement in his skating in OHL games this year - his top speed is fine now, even for the NHL. He's no Wheeler, but he's definitely got the wheels to keep up.

His main failings now are: strength on his skates / balance, and first step. Some powerskating drills and concentration on areas that improve his explosiveness will help those areas. When I was a young whipper-snapper, I spent two summers taking my skating from fast with sluggish acceleration, to fast with quick acceleration. I'm sure Scheifele's more athletic than I ever was, so if I can do it, there's no reason he can't. He's got the drive and determination to fix this problem.

And, unlike me, he doesn't have hands of stone, and isn't built like a running-back, so he's got those things going for him. PS: also agree with Huffer that he's doing exactly what's been asked of him in this tourney, which are things that are a bit foreign to his game. He's sticking with it like a trooper.
Look no further than John Tavares. He's gone from a sluggish skater (similar to Scheifele, slow first steps) to an above average skater. He beats people with his wheels now, that was unthinkable in his draft year.

It can't be easy, I've never seen someone improve as a skater like he has but if Scheifele puts the same effort in as Tavares, hopefully he can make it a strength too.

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01-01-2013, 12:11 PM
  #747
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I have a few thoughts on some of Canada's players.
Drouin has really impressed, his lower body strength reminds me a bit of Crosby when he played in the WJ (Im not saying he's the next Crosby) I really like how he has such a low centre of gravity and uses his strong legs to avoid defenders.
Mackinnon reminds me a bit of Wheeler. Big strong kid that can really skate, he's going to be a real power forward in the future.
I really like Ouellet so far in the tourney and Harrington's play reminds me of Marc Staal when he played in the WJ.
Subban is playing great just as I said he would Actually he's making me eat my words the last two games which Im fine with. I really like how far he comes out on breakaways and relies on his backwards skating to make guys deke instead of being shooters.
I was also wrong on draft day as I had hoped we selected Reinhart ahead of Trouba but am now glad we got Trouba, although I think long term Reinhart will eventually develop into a nice big shut down dman.
Looking forward to the semis.

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01-01-2013, 01:27 PM
  #748
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01-01-2013, 02:42 PM
  #749
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Uh, guys, the only reason Scheifele is taking a beating out there right now is because he is playing out of position - he is a centre being forced to play on the wing. He is used to having much more ice to work with, he is a centre, plays a freewheeling rover game with near the entire ice surface to use; right now he is forced into a limited and largely predefined skating lane. Playing wing is conversely a matter of skating in vertical lines and just up and down the boards, get it out along the boards in your own own zone and pound it along the wall in the other team's end. There is also more stopping and starting involved as the defensive responsibilities are different - cover the points, etc., and there is more physical play required at wing as well.

So, anyway, the only reason he seems to be taking more of a pounding is because he is currently being exposed to taking one via playing out of position. He is literally a fish out of water right now. His skating is not a glaring issue. He is a big lanky kid and that is why it may appear that way. Yet at centre this season he has looked exceedingly fast. I think of him akin to a Jordan Staal; he doesn't look like he is getting much done with his feet either but when you look closely at it... he really is.


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01-01-2013, 02:43 PM
  #750
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One thing to remember about Scheif in this tourney - he's playing out of position. Board battles are much more common at wing, vs. a center going in to help out / cause havoc.

With the strides we've seen in his skating in just one year, I think he'll be fine once he's ready for the bigs. A bit more concentration on adding a few more pounds and improving his skating next summer, and he'll be fine. He's got too much compete in him to not improve his weak areas.

If not, he's always got Hartnell to look up to.

That's a great point that I hadn't really considered.

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