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12'/13' Draft Thread: Offensive flash is a beauty but defensive presence rules.

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12-31-2012, 01:49 PM
  #301
Beleafer4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Jones doesn't take top spot for me. Drouin moves up to second and Jones and Barkov drop a spot each.

I have just been totally unimpressed by Jones' defensive game. Its been bad. There's no other way of putting it. He's not only been on for 3 of the 4 goals against the Americans but he's been crucially responsible for two of them. he's lost the puck multiple times in his own end, far more than should be acceptable of someone as highly rated as him. He's taken some bad penalties and blown coverages. His defensive game has been bad.

His offense has been pretty good. Jumping up in the play and making decent passes in the offensive zone plus good shots. But its not enough to be picked one overall in my mind. Trouba has been a much better player in both offensive and defensive aspects.granted he's a few moths older but at still.

Even in the pre tourney game , Jones was men against Finland.and running his mouth about the us being the best team in ufa.

Only points and pluses came against Germany? Come on. Dudes been less than impressive. I can't be the only one who thinks this
Performance at the WJC /= how good they are of a prospect. You look at their skillsets and for me, up until now, Jones is #1.

He has elite nhl skating
elite nhl size
nhl aggressiveness
elite nhl shot
nhl hands and passing
nhl iq

Defense may not be fully ready but its okay. He is young and can work on it. Playing against a pumped team canada doesn't help you. Especially if you make a mistake early, it usually gets you off your game.

Jones looks to be a bigger and faster phaneuf (and I would love that). And to be honest, I think his iq is better than has been displayed in this tournament. Thats why I rank him No. 1.

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12-31-2012, 01:54 PM
  #302
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My updated top 5 as of Dec 31, 2012:

1. Seth Jones - Not playing nearly as bad as you read here, will be a powerhouse if he plays Worlds as a 19 year old.

2. Mackinnon - Outshone by his Halifax line mate, but still has obvious skills that will translate to the pro game.

3. Drouin - Continues to prove he is one of the better prospects in the draft, underrated defensive game. Clutch player.

4. Monahan - IQ, no weaknesses to his game. Does everything well. Winner.

5. Nichuskin - Flashes of dominant power game, major projection but love his size and skill. If he gets it will almost be impossible to stop.

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12-31-2012, 02:07 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
Performance at the WJC /= how good they are of a prospect. You look at their skillsets and for me, up until now, Jones is #1.

He has elite nhl skating
elite nhl size
nhl aggressiveness
elite nhl shot
nhl hands and passing
nhl iq

Defense may not be fully ready but its okay. He is young and can work on it. Playing against a pumped team canada doesn't help you. Especially if you make a mistake early, it usually gets you off your game.

Jones looks to be a bigger and faster phaneuf (and I would love that). And to be honest, I think his iq is better than has been displayed in this tournament. Thats why I rank him No. 1.
We need another defensemen with a good shot, we have a lot of pass first D in our prospect pool.

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12-31-2012, 02:21 PM
  #304
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I'd rather have Jones, but Ryan Pulock is not a bad option with Rielly either. He's got hockey IQ in spades to offset any lack of Phaneuf has, and a better shot also.

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12-31-2012, 02:30 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'd rather have Jones, but Ryan Pulock is not a bad option with Rielly either. He's got hockey IQ in spades to offset any lack of Phaneuf has, and a better shot also.
If we get a mid first round pick, i'd hope we go for him, nurse, zadorov or fucale. If a late one, I'd go for Shea Theadore, he is promising to me.

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12-31-2012, 03:38 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'd rather have Jones, but Ryan Pulock is not a bad option with Rielly either. He's got hockey IQ in spades to offset any lack of Phaneuf has, and a better shot also.
What about Ristolainen? He's looking promising and can be a good 'stabilizing presence' type partner for Rielly also.

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12-31-2012, 03:47 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
We need another defensemen with a good shot, we have a lot of pass first D in our prospect pool.
Pulock has those attributes certainly. He wouldn't exactly be a bad "consolation prize" to one of the top forwards in that draft at all. A top 7-8 pick would be great to have in this draft.

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12-31-2012, 03:49 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
What about Ristolainen? He's looking promising and can be a good 'stabilizing presence' type partner for Rielly also.
Hows his IQ? Havent focused on him much. I do like his shot and physicality tho.

Anyway, as for barkov, I would probably drop him to a pulock type level. Both are smooth skating big bodies with elite hockey iq. Only difference is barkov has elite hands while pulock has an elite shot. Both arent overly physical and have high character+ work ethic. Both cerebral players. Barkov is younger though and a Center so I would take him before Pulock.

and LR: agreed but I also think we need more grit on the blueline as well

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12-31-2012, 04:27 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
Performance at the WJC /= how good they are of a prospect. You look at their skillsets and for me, up until now, Jones is #1.

He has elite nhl skating
elite nhl size
nhl aggressiveness
elite nhl shot
nhl hands and passing
nhl iq

Defense may not be fully ready but its okay. He is young and can work on it. Playing against a pumped team canada doesn't help you. Especially if you make a mistake early, it usually gets you off your game.

Jones looks to be a bigger and faster phaneuf (and I would love that). And to be honest, I think his iq is better than has been displayed in this tournament. Thats why I rank him No. 1.
How can you have "elite" size?

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12-31-2012, 04:33 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
How can you have "elite" size?
IDK my way of saying very few people in the league are that big.

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12-31-2012, 04:40 PM
  #311
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Not having seen him play until this WJC I was not overly high on Drouin as some.

But let me just say, I am completely turned around. This guy has an "IT" factor about him. He has elite hands and hockey sense, and his escapability and abililty to operate in tight spaces is unbelievable. I can't compare him to one player but he seems like some combination of Patrick Kane, Jeff Skinner, and Zach Parise.

He may not be physically ready to play in the NHL next year, but he definately has the skills and tools to play there (a la Nugent-Hopkins).

I know we need a center, but right now I only have Mackinnon and Barkov ahead of him, and Barkov only by a very small degree.

I can already see a dynamic line of Drouin-Grabo-Kulemin in 2013 if we picked him.

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12-31-2012, 04:59 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
What about Ristolainen? He's looking promising and can be a good 'stabilizing presence' type partner for Rielly also.
Honestly, I didn't get a chance to focus on him much this tourney with the Finns out of it before the 1/4's. Only seen highlights of his game, obviously the measuring stick is Pulock and I am quite bullish on Ryan already.

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12-31-2012, 05:01 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispy Crust View Post
Pulock has those attributes certainly. He wouldn't exactly be a bad "consolation prize" to one of the top forwards in that draft at all. A top 7-8 pick would be great to have in this draft.
He has the smarts to compliment Rielly, he's not Murphy or Hamilton, where one wants to possess the puck and the other can be tunnel visioned.

They could compliment each other quite well, and we already know Ryan wants to be a Leaf.

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12-31-2012, 05:03 PM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
My updated top 5 as of Dec 31, 2012:

1. Seth Jones - Not playing nearly as bad as you read here, will be a powerhouse if he plays Worlds as a 19 year old.

2. Mackinnon - Outshone by his Halifax line mate, but still has obvious skills that will translate to the pro game.

3. Drouin - Continues to prove he is one of the better prospects in the draft, underrated defensive game. Clutch player.

4. Monahan - IQ, no weaknesses to his game. Does everything well. Winner.

5. Nichuskin - Flashes of dominant power game, major projection but love his size and skill. If he gets it will almost be impossible to stop.
That's honestly huge.

I still have Mackinnon over Jones, but wouldn't be surprised if it went the other way.

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12-31-2012, 05:08 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
That's honestly huge.

I still have Mackinnon over Jones, but wouldn't be surprised if it went the other way.
I still like Mackinnon, actually as the year goes on he may reassert himself as #1. We have to understand this is a funky year with the lock out.

Mackinnon is a Center, and he is not used to getting bottom 6 mins or a role. This is what I was trying to tell a poster that claimed Barkov could easily make Team Canada earlier.

It's not that simplistic, Mackinnon is still a stud of a prospect and he will be a star in the NHL one day. Perhaps an elite star.

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12-31-2012, 05:11 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I still like Mackinnon, actually as the year goes on he may reassert himself as #1. We have to understand this is a funky year with the lock out.

Mackinnon is a Center, and he is not used to getting bottom 6 mins or a role. This is what I was trying to tell a poster that claimed Barkov could easily make Team Canada earlier.

It's not that simplistic, Mackinnon is still a stud of a prospect and he will be a star in the NHL one day. Perhaps an elite star.
The difference is Barkov's two-way game means he can translate into a bottom 6 guy. MacKinnon doesn't have the two-way game of Barkov so he doesn't compliment the bottom 6 as well as Barkov could. But I'm not taking away from MacKinnon obviously.

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12-31-2012, 05:24 PM
  #317
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The difference is Barkov's two-way game means he can translate into a bottom 6 guy. MacKinnon doesn't have the two-way game of Barkov so he doesn't compliment the bottom 6 as well as Barkov could. But I'm not taking away from MacKinnon obviously.
In your opinion I might add, watching Barkov and comparing him to Mackinnon who is quite capable of playing a gritty game bottom 6 game, is like comparing night and day. But I think you are missing the point, this is not where he usually shines, so I still rate Mackinnon as high as #2 this draft.

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12-31-2012, 06:13 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
Hows his IQ? Havent focused on him much. I do like his shot and physicality tho.

Anyway, as for barkov, I would probably drop him to a pulock type level. Both are smooth skating big bodies with elite hockey iq. Only difference is barkov has elite hands while pulock has an elite shot. Both arent overly physical and have high character+ work ethic. Both cerebral players. Barkov is younger though and a Center so I would take him before Pulock.

and LR: agreed but I also think we need more grit on the blueline as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Honestly, I didn't get a chance to focus on him much this tourney with the Finns out of it before the 1/4's. Only seen highlights of his game, obviously the measuring stick is Pulock and I am quite bullish on Ryan already.
I was actually fishing for opinions as I didn't get to see as much as I'd hoped...but what little I saw, he reminds me of OEL, a big, mobile 2-way defender who plays with a lot of poise for his age, so I'm thinking the hockey IQ is up there but not an expert opinion here.

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12-31-2012, 08:32 PM
  #319
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Drouin will become the sexy pick of this year's draft .. That one player who shoots up the ranks out of no where. Depending on the draft order, a certain team might even take him second overall or something .. Could happen

That being said I really like the kid, he's got that element of his game to step it up it seems when it counts .. Just needs to physically mature a pick more for the NHL

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12-31-2012, 08:49 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I still like Mackinnon, actually as the year goes on he may reassert himself as #1. We have to understand this is a funky year with the lock out.

Mackinnon is a Center, and he is not used to getting bottom 6 mins or a role. This is what I was trying to tell a poster that claimed Barkov could easily make Team Canada earlier.

It's not that simplistic, Mackinnon is still a stud of a prospect and he will be a star in the NHL one day. Perhaps an elite star.
Based on this WJC Rielly wouldn't go 5th. or be rated 1st. overall by anyone.

Based on this WJC Jones wouldn't move up the draft either, there'd be too many questions about his IQ on defense. (Derek Pouliot, Jones teammate, is a PPG '94 born defender - just to keep in perspective offensive production on the Winterhawks.)

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12-31-2012, 08:52 PM
  #321
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Based on this WJC Rielly wouldn't go 5th. or be rated 1st. overall by anyone.

Based on this WJC Jones wouldn't move up the draft either, there'd be too many questions about his IQ on defense.
Yakupov wouldn't go first either. Based on this WJC Trouba would've went first lol

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12-31-2012, 09:20 PM
  #322
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Based on this WJC Rielly wouldn't go 5th. or be rated 1st. overall by anyone.

Based on this WJC Jones wouldn't move up the draft either, there'd be too many questions about his IQ on defense. (Derek Pouliot, Jones teammate, is a PPG '94 born defender - just to keep in perspective offensive production on the Winterhawks.)
I would agree with this, Yakupov would probably go 4 in this draft, Rielly maybe 6, even though he has been better than all 2012 draftees with the exception of Trouba. Gally 8.

I would be estastic with any of Jones, Mackinnon, or Drouin. If we are picking 3 or better, not so much if its Barkov based on the tourney.

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12-31-2012, 09:26 PM
  #323
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Jones is RAW.

I still think he has the highest upside of anyone in this draft regardless of a few bad games. Drafting is more about longterm and evaluating how a player will develop and what kind of player they will be when theres 24-25 not what they be at 19-20. Jones looks to be forcing things a bit too much and almost playing nervous but his talent in undeniable. I really have to question anyone that would take Drouin over him.

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12-31-2012, 11:04 PM
  #324
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Jones is RAW.

I still think he has the highest upside of anyone in this draft regardless of a few bad games. Drafting is more about longterm and evaluating how a player will develop and what kind of player they will be when theres 24-25 not what they be at 19-20. Jones looks to be forcing things a bit too much and almost playing nervous but his talent in undeniable. I really have to question anyone that would take Drouin over him.
I would have a hard time believing anyone can accurately rate these guys due to the different amount of viewings, the different leagues, the different age groups they compete in. If they were all in the same league I'd give some credence to it, but realistically, some are playing against NHL players while others are playing against 16 and 17 year old boys.

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01-01-2013, 10:33 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
Performance at the WJC /= how good they are of a prospect. You look at their skillsets and for me, up until now, Jones is #1.

He has elite nhl skating
elite nhl size
nhl aggressiveness
elite nhl shot
nhl hands and passing
nhl iq

Defense may not be fully ready but its okay. He is young and can work on it. Playing against a pumped team canada doesn't help you. Especially if you make a mistake early, it usually gets you off your game.

Jones looks to be a bigger and faster phaneuf (and I would love that). And to be honest, I think his iq is better than has been displayed in this tournament. Thats why I rank him No. 1.
I'm seriously questioning his supposed IQ. This tournament has shown a distinct lack of that. Sure guys make mistakes but usually on one game and not the same type of mistake over and over again.

Jones made mistakes, bad mistakes, in every game he's played. Including pure tourney (against the Finns).

Players with high IQ don't make those mistakes and struggle that much.

Jones does not move up unless he starts to show some improvement in that.

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