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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Roster Talk '13 — Finland

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Old
12-31-2012, 05:56 PM
  #726
Mahox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
What a shocker. I had Finland top 3 going into the tournament. Sometimes a team just doesn't click or loses some close ones that make a difference. Very hard to believe that a team with as much individual talent as this doesn't make it through. I feel bad for you guys. This age group had do much promise. And to have Sweden officially knock you out must sting even worse. Good luck next year.
Thanks for that nice and classy message
I actually tried to upvote your comment (too much time on ******)

I honestly still think we could have made it to the finals if we would've gotten through to the quarter finals. The potential was there but the team didn't click after the pre-games. Maybe the success in those games made the players over confident.

There's always next year, the most important thing would of course be to get a competent head coach.
The defensive core is a year older and we only lose Lindbohm if you only count the good ones and he didn't really have that good of a tournament.

Offense is a bit more troubling with the loss of Armia, (who admittably is only awesome when he chooses to be and useless the rest of the time) Salomäki, Ma. Granlund (who honestly wasn't that good but who can score every now and then) and Aaltonen.
Hopefully some new youngsters will take their place and some 94, 95 or 96 born player will have their breakthrough next year. Barkov, Teräväinen and Lehkonen being a year older might lead to some awesomeness, one can at least hope


Last edited by Mahox: 12-31-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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12-31-2012, 06:06 PM
  #727
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Is there any 96 born who propably make next year's team and what about that Saarela guy who is born 97?

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12-31-2012, 06:33 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by agent082 View Post
Is there any 96 born who propably make next year's team and what about that Saarela guy who is born 97?
Kasperi Kapanen comes to mind, he might have a shot, albeit a long one, at least ATM.

Doubt we see any '97 borns. They would not be just two, but three years underage. Usually you have to be a Granlund/Barkov grade prospect to make it that early, and don't see any of those, at least right now.

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12-31-2012, 06:35 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by heksagon View Post
I really wish the Finnish ice hockey federation would take this tournament seriously and give the U-20 team a proven winning coach. If Helminen is the head coach next year I just don't know what to say.
Which Helminen are you referring to?

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12-31-2012, 06:38 PM
  #730
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Which Helminen are you referring to?
Raimo "Raipe" Helminen. Ex-player turned horrible horrible horrible coach. Was head coach of Finland in the last years WJC.

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12-31-2012, 06:39 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahox View Post
Thanks for that nice and classy message
I actually tried to upvote your comment (too much time on ******)

I honestly still think we could have made it to the finals if we would've gotten through to the quarter finals. The potential was there but the team didn't click after the pre-games. Maybe the success in those games made the players over confident.

There's always next year, the most important thing would of course be to get a competent head coach.
The defensive core is a year older and we only lose Lindbohm if you only count the good ones and he didn't really have that good of a tournament.

Offense is a bit more troubling with the loss of Armia, (who admittably is only awesome when he chooses to be and useless the rest of the time) Salomäki, Ma. Granlund (who honestly wasn't that good but who can score every now and then) and Aaltonen.
Hopefully some new youngsters will take their place and some 94, 95 or 96 born player will have their breakthrough next year. Barkov, Teräväinen and Lehkonen being a year older might lead to some awesomeness, one can at least hope
Thanks

Having those 6 available to come back is huge. Be spoilers for Sweden next year on their home soil.

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12-31-2012, 06:44 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Thanks

Having those 6 available to come back is huge. Be spoilers for Sweden next year on their home soil.
Out of curiosity who did you think of as the the sixth? Pokka?

I was referring to Määttä, Ristolainen, Barkov, Teräväinen and Lehkonen.
They should all be able to come back agewise.

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12-31-2012, 06:50 PM
  #733
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Let's take an early look what the team might look next year.

Korpisalo (Juvonen)

Lindell - Ristolainen
Tikkinen - Pokka
Vainonen - Vainio
X

Haapala - Barkov - Lehkonen
X - Teräväinen - J.Ikonen
H.Ikonen - X - Kulmala
X - Salminen - X


Not a bad start, actually. D will still be strong, since the solid class of '94 borns are still available. In forwards, we have a decent top-six panning out already, it's the bottom lines that still have a few question marks. No point in guessing who might man those open slots, utility players usually present themselves over the year. Start making guesses now, and you could get every single one of them wrong.

Also, I'm not placing much hope on Määttä coming back. He's very likely in the AHL next year and might even get a game or two in the show itself. Players in that position are not usually getting released. Also, like I put earlier, Barkov and Ristolainen might be gone as well, but unless they make their upcoming teams from the boot, it's likely they stick to SM-liiga.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-31-2012 at 07:03 PM.
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12-31-2012, 06:52 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Mahox View Post
Out of curiosity who did you think of as the the sixth? Pokka?

I was referring to Määttä, Ristolainen, Barkov, Teräväinen and Lehkonen.
They should all be able to come back agewise.
My mistake. I thought you mentioned Pokka. You actually have 10 potential returnees. That's a significant core, especially with all those top end guys.

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12-31-2012, 06:54 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Kasperi Kapanen comes to mind, he might have a shot, albeit a long one, at least ATM.

Doubt we see any '97 borns. They would not be just two, but three years underage. Usually you have to be a Granlund/Barkov grade prospect to make it that early, and don't see any of those, at least right now.
Aleksi Saarela could possibly fit that bill, but no idea where he would slot in.

As for -96's Mikko Rantanen played well in the U-17 Hockey Challenge game against sweden yesterday. Although if I'm not mistaken he's a 2015 draftee.

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12-31-2012, 06:57 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Also, I'm not placing much hope on Määttä coming back. He's very likely in the AHL next year and might even get a game or two in the show itself.
Is he even eligible to play in the AHL?

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12-31-2012, 06:59 PM
  #737
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Is he even eligible to play in the AHL?
2011 draftees are eligible this season, the class of 2012 will be when the next starts.

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12-31-2012, 07:05 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
2011 draftees are eligible this season, the class of 2012 will be when the next starts.
CHL players are eligible to play in AHL if they've played 4 seasons in CHL, or turn 20 in the same year the season starts. Määttä doesn't fill either of those conditions, but I don't know if the fact that he's an "European import" affects something.

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12-31-2012, 07:16 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Haite View Post
CHL players are eligible to play in AHL if they've played 4 seasons in CHL, or turn 20 in the same year the season starts. Määttä doesn't fill either of those conditions, but I don't know if the fact that he's an "European import" affects something.
Hmm. Yep, you're right. Määttä is not eligible. My head was playing tricks with me - I had him binned as an European prospect, coming out of JYP, but he was drafted from the Knights - meaning he needs to wait 'til 2014-15 season.

So he should be coming back alright after all, making the team a whole lot stronger.


Also, need to check that draft ruling as well, since I recall at least one '94 born, Swedish D-man Hampus Lindholm, playing in the AHL this season.

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12-31-2012, 07:47 PM
  #740
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Canadian here saying Finland's too good of a team to not be playing in the playoffs. I couldn't believe it. Here's to a better showing next year!

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12-31-2012, 08:11 PM
  #741
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What happened?

I thought you guys would meet Canada in the finals. The pre-tourny games were so good. Can someone explain what specifically went wrong?

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12-31-2012, 08:12 PM
  #742
FiLe
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Canadian here saying Finland's too good of a team to not be playing in the playoffs. I couldn't believe it. Here's to a better showing next year!
Finland definitely had a ton of high profile individuals for whom this is not a worthy result. However, as a team they played in a manner that got them exactly what they deserved.

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I thought you guys would meet Canada in the finals. The pre-tourny games were so good. Can someone explain what specifically went wrong?
No single reason to point out. Instead, let's call it a... sum of several small things, too many to list. As lone occurences they would not have had much of an effect, but when they piled up, the result was this cockup we just witnessed.

Some could maybe have been prevented with different choices, others were just freak accidents.

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12-31-2012, 08:27 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Finland definitely had a ton of high profile individuals for whom this is not a worthy result. However, as a team they played in a manner that got them exactly what they deserved.

No single reason to point out. Instead, let's call it a... sum of several small things, too many to list. As lone occurences they would not have had much of an effect, but when they piled up, the result was this cockup we just witnessed.

Some could maybe have been prevented with different choices, others were just freak accidents.
Not that Canada's expectations were so high in 1998 after winning 5 straight golds, but trust me, I know how it feels when everything goes wrong. We were fourth in our pool when there was no bye and still couldn't get it together. Final insult was losing 6-3 to Kazakhstan. It can happen to anyone.

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12-31-2012, 08:33 PM
  #744
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Not that Canada's expectations were so high in 1998 after winning 5 straight golds, but trust me, I know how it feels when everything goes wrong. We were fourth in our pool when there was no bye and still couldn't get it together. Final insult was losing 6-3 to Kazakhstan. It can happen to anyone.


Can't stop laughing

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12-31-2012, 10:36 PM
  #745
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Can't stop laughing
Why?

**

Sorry to the Finn fans. You guys can't catch a break. I had you finishing with a Silver.

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12-31-2012, 10:48 PM
  #746
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What happened?

I thought you guys would meet Canada in the finals. The pre-tourny games were so good. Can someone explain what specifically went wrong?
Yellow liquid went to players head after the two exhibition games, they thought it was going to be easy.

Miro Aaltonen got injured, messing up the lines for basically the rest of the tournament. No duos were formed.

Defensive errors, passive penalty killing.

Team completely forgot the system which many of them are familiar with in the their club sides and the national teams. Puck control hockey, controlled break-outs. There were a lot of slow break-outs but they were constantly executed wrong. After the dman->dman passes, they're supposed to pass to a center who's made himself available low enough, then the center plays wide to the wingers who enter the zone, with the whole on-ice unit attacking in a tight group separated in 5 lanes so to speak, drive to the net/shoot/pass to the middle for the center/turn and utilize the second wave. What they ended up doing was pass to the wingers who mostly lost the puck in the neutral zone or tried "long balls" because the centers were too far up the ice or nowhere to be seen. In a matter of few days they completely forgot how to play "our game".

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Old
12-31-2012, 11:30 PM
  #747
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Yellow liquid went to players head after the two exhibition games, they thought it was going to be easy.

Miro Aaltonen got injured, messing up the lines for basically the rest of the tournament. No duos were formed.

Defensive errors, passive penalty killing.
Apart from the Aaltonen injury, some other key players got ill.

Something went slightly wrong with preparation to the games, the team didn't look ready to take some aggressive forechecking from a seemingly weaker opponent.

The coaches made an error or two when picking those final players beyond the locks, who turned out to be not-so-useful.

...the list goes on...


Like I put it, one, two or three of these might have been able to do away with, but when they come to you in droves, small, some even barely noticeable... there's just no way to tend to them all, partly because you don't even have an idea what gets the priority and what gets not.


Apart from players getting sick or injured, a more effective coach might have been able to do a little more, though... or even prevent 'em from happening to begin with.

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01-01-2013, 01:43 AM
  #748
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Enjoyed watching Finland in the pre-tourney games. Only got to watch one game in the tourney. Love Ristolainen, and was glad I got to see him at least a little bit. Lehkonen looks pretty good too. Lots of talent on this team. Too bad they couldnt go a little further. There is always next year and there will be a lot of good players coming back.

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01-01-2013, 01:58 AM
  #749
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So is Finland eliminated? Also how did Markus Granlund play?

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01-01-2013, 04:09 AM
  #750
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Like all of you have said, this is the result of many smaller and bigger issues, some of which I'm listing below:

- Armia not bothering to take the tournament seriously until the game against Sweden

- Barkov being too tired

- Aaltonen getting injured, which lead to them having to redo lines and not having as many choices as they would've liked

- The continuous line roulette which didn't let them form any chemistry, the coaches overreacted

- A couple of failed player choices, Järveläinen being the biggest mistake

- Team spirit issues caused by who knows what. I think I read on Twitter last night from one of the sports reporters that there are cliques on the team and those cliques don't like each other very much. I smelled some trouble when Rindell said there were some challenging personalities on the squad and that another challenge was having both 17 and 19-year-old players on the same team. I think for example Barkov's skills may have caused jealousy among the others. Aaltonen's always struck me as a good team player, so his absence probably had a negative effect on this.

- Bad preparation for the games, which lead to the opposing team scoring at least twice in the 1st period

- Bad PK combined with too many penalties (SALOMÄKI and Armia in particular)

Even with a list like this, we were ONE point away from the QF's. If, let's say, the first two points on the list had been different, we would have placed 2nd in the group.

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