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Yakupov to TB

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:25 PM
  #26
lakai17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Hedman, Carle, Salo, Brewer, Ohlund (if he's healthy) is the worst D in the league? It's significantly better than Edmonton's next season.
Smid-Schultz
Petry-Klefbom
Whitney-

is half decent.

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12-31-2012, 09:26 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Smid-Schultz
Petry-Klefbom
Whitney-

is half decent.
Not as good as Tampa's. Nor do I expect 3 rookies (I think Petry still counts?) to be in your lineup.

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
I think EDM would benefit from a MaxPac+ for Yak deal.
That's nice. So Montreal decides to make Bourque their top LW so that they can have Yak + Cole + Gionta on the right along with Leblanc + Kristo + Gallagher + Colberg in the system while having no LW prospects of note. Also we have to add to our top young power forward to make this happen.

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12-31-2012, 09:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Not as good as Tampa's. Nor do I expect 3 rookies (I think Petry still counts?) to be in your lineup.
Petry played the most minutes in Edmonton last season, playing with Ladi Smid. They played against the opposing teams best players, and performed well. I wouldn't call him a rookie.

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12-31-2012, 09:47 PM
  #30
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Petry played the most minutes in Edmonton last season, playing with Ladi Smid. They played against the opposing teams best players, and performed well. I wouldn't call him a rookie.
I'm thinking of Musil for some reason. My bad.

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12-31-2012, 09:49 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Not as good as Tampa's. Nor do I expect 3 rookies (I think Petry still counts?) to be in your lineup.
Next year will be Petry's third year. You obviously have no idea about Edmonton's defense. There are a couple of more recognizable names on the Tampa blueline (ie, guys who were good and are past their prime), but the Oilers defense isn't nearly as bad as its made out to be now that we traded the turnover machince for Nick Schultz and signed Justin Schultz.

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12-31-2012, 09:51 PM
  #32
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Tampa bay can't afford to lose Hedman on their blueline plus there are a lot better young defenceman Edmonton can go after with a guy like Nail Yakupov.

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:52 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Smid-Schultz
Petry-Klefbom
Whitney-Schultz

is half decent.
Don't forget about Nick Schultz. We also have Sutton still right?

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12-31-2012, 09:52 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Next year will be Petry's third year. You obviously have no idea about Edmonton's defense. There are a couple of more recognizable names on the Tampa blueline (ie, guys who were good and are past their prime), but the Oilers defense isn't nearly as bad as its made out to be now that we traded the turnover machince for Nick Schultz and signed Justin Schultz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'm thinking of Musil for some reason. My bad.
Justin Schultz doesn't instantly give you a great defense. He's still a rookie, and unproven in the NHL (don't tell me his AHL production is a sign that he'll be great in the NHL - look at Alexandre Giroux for an example). It does look like an improvement, but not as much of one as Tampa made (and theirs was arguably better last season as well).

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12-31-2012, 10:19 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Justin Schultz doesn't instantly give you a great defense. He's still a rookie, and unproven in the NHL (don't tell me his AHL production is a sign that he'll be great in the NHL - look at Alexandre Giroux for an example). It does look like an improvement, but not as much of one as Tampa made (and theirs was arguably better last season as well).
Did you really just compare Schultz to ****ing Alexandre Giroux? Schultz is a rookie dman scoring at the same pace as Giroux did during his career year.

As for the original proposal, I'll pass. Until we see what Klefa can do, its not worth it

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12-31-2012, 10:33 PM
  #36
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Did you really just compare Schultz to ****ing Alexandre Giroux? Schultz is a rookie dman scoring at the same pace as Giroux did during his career year.

As for the original proposal, I'll pass. Until we see what Klefa can do, its not worth it
No, I'm simply stating that AHL scoring doesn't always translate to NHL scoring (which you can't deny).

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12-31-2012, 10:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
So will Edmonton.

There is only a few defensemen I`d trade Yakupov for, and as much as I think Hedman will be great soon, I don`t think he`s enough.

If any team want's Yakupov, they'd better be prepared to offer up an Oliver Ekman-Larsson or Alex Pietrangelo type player. Those guys are a clear step up on Hedman right now.

Just for clarification, I'm not suggesting one of those teams will like that deal, but its what I think the Oilers would need to move Yakupov right now.
Alex Pietrangelo is a proven elite NHL defenceman.

Yakupov is nowhere near his realm of value

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:44 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
That's what I'm thinking as well.Tampa has weak defense,and really need Hedman going forward.
Also, maybe Edmonton could need Yakupov going defenseman.


Last edited by palindrom: 12-31-2012 at 10:51 PM.
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Old
12-31-2012, 11:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
No, I'm simply stating that AHL scoring doesn't always translate to NHL scoring (which you can't deny).
There are very real reasons why Giroux didn't translate to the NHL (skating, reaction time), where as J. Schultz doesn't appear to have those problems...he's faster than the game at the AHL level. Nobody is saying that he's Erik Karlsson here, but all signs are pointing to him (along with continued progression of Petry and Smid and having more balance thanks to Nick Schultz) helping the Oilers become a much, much better defense core.

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Old
01-01-2013, 01:11 AM
  #40
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Obvious no from Tampa, but where the hell are you pulling this gem from:
Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
TB needs a top fwd once they buyout Vinny with the buyout clause
a) It's very doubtful Vinny gets bought out.

b) Yakupov doesn't even play center (what Tampa would need if they bought out Vinny).

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Old
01-01-2013, 06:38 AM
  #41
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Edmonton needs a better d-man than Hedman if they're expected to give up one of their big 4 players.

I like Hedman a lot, but untill he kicks it up a notch he won't be getting Tampa such a huge return.

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01-01-2013, 07:39 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Tampa bay can't afford to lose Hedman on their blueline plus there are a lot better young defenceman Edmonton can go after with a guy like Nail Yakupov.
I really dont think there is

Tampa says no because of reasons already listed

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01-01-2013, 08:26 AM
  #43
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Edmonton had the chance to draft a better defenceman then Hedman in the 2012 draft. Edmonton will not be trading Yakupov any time soon.

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01-01-2013, 10:10 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
God no. If Yakupov were dealt for a defender, Hedman is right around what you'd get. You're sure as hell not getting an elite defender (which is all you listed) for an unproven rookie.
This is reasonable^. So are other comments for and against the OP. It's hard to get that exactly right.

Assuming the above post bolded is true, what do we think of this:

something around:
Marc Staal, Girardi, Stepan + Brian Boyle
for
RNH, Justin Schultz, Marincin + Gernat

4 for 4 with balance and risk around...

analysis/rationale:
NY + Edmonton seem complementary, but have been unable to agree on value.

The OP premise is that at some level, Oils need to get some solid D, though it was obviously to give up less to get less.

The Rangers D is not limitless, but more goals are always useful. There is, however, just on the horizon a real concern about keeping several developing core players, despite grandfathering salary on a smaller scale for the next season, there is a likelihood of a smaller salary cap going forward. So if they can keep part of the core still on/just getting off the ELCs, and move some of the ore expensive veterans, that is a strategy to retain that core.

Assuming Edmonton wants no part of Brad Richards at his contract, what might work is 2 top #1 Ds carrying full (but not overpriced) salary, plus two Cs. Stepan a great fit as a terrific distributor, Boyle adding strength down the middle, available at W if desired, with less salary pressure.

For Rangers, they are gambling on upgrades. RNH is a huge upgrade to Stepan, with all of his vision and a shot. Schultz today is a step below proven #1 All Star calibre backliners specializing in D, let alone two of them, but would address the need a shot from the point, esp on PP. Marincin + Gernat are both tall righties, and are balance to Rangers Noreau and Ceresnak both also full sized. They are all pushing to be here w/in 2 years,

Moving 3 Ds initially makes Edmonton wince, they are getting two premium, top shelf Ds in return, and they have top D prospect Klefborn who is closer to knocking at the door.

In terms of what is immediate, RNH is a big salary, the three Ds surrendered are not; Staal-Girardi = larger salary than RNH, Stepan will not be cheap forever, but increases to he and Boyle are down the road. Edmonton absorbs extra salary over an additional roster player, NY gets 1 big salary hit, Schultz = ELC, Marancin + Gernat salary implications further down the road. SO RANGERS ACHIEVE AN IMPORTANT OBJECTIVE, CREATE CAP SPACE TO KEEP McDONAGH, KREIDER, ETC.

All 4 players make the Oilers club. The familiar tandem = new top pair, Stepan = top 6, and Boyle will fit, probably 3rd line.
RNH + Schultz make Rangers, Gernat + Marancin = farm for now.

So how do Rangers fill out roster?
At C you lose 1 (Stepan) and gain a great 1 (RNH); you lose another
(Boyle) and promote JT Miller. A big plus on balance down the middle, and RNH facilitates best fall back position to moving Richards, which from salary point is something that has to get done eventually (unless he is bought out and re-signed for a lot, lot less).

D is tougher.
Schultz may eventually grow to partner with McDonagh (NY can now reach out to long term deal).
reasonable to assume Del Zotto will return, not to huge deal, but short term for raise he wants on 1 maybe 2 year deal. Balance of backline remains the same. So NY is down one, admittedly a big one.
In the near term, former first rounder Dylan McIrath, a stay at home tough guy clear the crease type, should be do-able at the bottom pair sooner than later.

As to what's immediate, you need to make a deal.
Even if you don't, and I'm sure many will disagree, getting terrific return and repurposing salary like this is worth it.

However, somebody like Yandle from Phoenix would more than fill the bill, just to look at top end and work down; as to what they would want, young cheap offense, NY might have to juggle with a third team partner (Chicago) to get young offense more immediately ready (Saad) for that.

So killing 2 birds with one stone maybe first something like

Brad Richards (at a salary dump consideration discount) +
Christian Thomas (all the skills but undersized)
+ an x factor F like Thomas Spelling
+ a variable like D Pavel Valentenko, who might challenge for bottom pair now
+ a solid prospect D (like Calle Andersson), and a Rangers 4th,
for
F Brandon Saad and D Dylan Olsen

Rangers keep Olsen.

Ship Brandon Saad +
Michael St. Croix (ok, a little smallish has track record of scoring), + Andrew Yogan (big 6'3, w/some scoring track record not too far away)
+ Boo Nieves (also big 6'3, seems to be promising 2 way F, ok, but green)
should be enough for
Yandle from Phoenix

Also slight improvement on salary swap of Richards out, Yandle in

Oscar Lindberg is your eventual replacement as 3 or 4c. In the meantime, everybody bumps up one, and Miller, very fast, is a good match w/Kreider/Hagelin + Callahan

so Rangers wind up w:

Nash RNH Gaborik
Kreider Miller Callahan
Hagelin Rupp Pyatt
Bickel Halperin Asham
Michael Haley is the call up

McDonagh Yandle
MDZ Schultz
Olsen Stralman
McIlrath
with several knocking on the door if MDZ is moved next year

So yes, after the proof to the theorem, Yakupov could net a high potential D; an established D is not impossible, everything is based on exactly who we are talking about; but Oilers might get better overall result keeping Yak and swapping a higher piece, then getting 2 prime first pair Ds in return.

The above was necessary to prove Rangers could give up both 1Ds in top pair allowing Edmonton to pursue its course, and still improve, if the names above are involved.

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Old
01-01-2013, 10:13 AM
  #45
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Not a bad proposal value wise..not sure about team needs. When I saw the title I thought: "That would cost them Hedman".

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01-01-2013, 11:46 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
I think EDM would benefit from a MaxPac+ for Yak deal.
yeah great...kessel too. keep montreal out of your proposals. they aren't trading the best d man they've had since chelios (subban) and the best power forward they've had since leclair. Edm can keep yakupov and we'll build around pacioretty, price, subban and galcheynyuk

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Old
01-01-2013, 11:49 AM
  #47
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both teams need defense, bad trading partners

also, I really don't think tampa buys out vinny.. TB fans?

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Old
01-01-2013, 11:55 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
This is reasonable^. So are other comments for and against the OP. It's hard to get that exactly right.

Assuming the above post bolded is true, what do we think of this:

something around:
Marc Staal, Girardi, Stepan + Brian Boyle
for
RNH, Justin Schultz, Marincin + Gernat

4 for 4 with balance and risk around...

analysis/rationale:
NY + Edmonton seem complementary, but have been unable to agree on value.

The OP premise is that at some level, Oils need to get some solid D, though it was obviously to give up less to get less.

The Rangers D is not limitless, but more goals are always useful. There is, however, just on the horizon a real concern about keeping several developing core players, despite grandfathering salary on a smaller scale for the next season, there is a likelihood of a smaller salary cap going forward. So if they can keep part of the core still on/just getting off the ELCs, and move some of the ore expensive veterans, that is a strategy to retain that core.

Assuming Edmonton wants no part of Brad Richards at his contract, what might work is 2 top #1 Ds carrying full (but not overpriced) salary, plus two Cs. Stepan a great fit as a terrific distributor, Boyle adding strength down the middle, available at W if desired, with less salary pressure.

For Rangers, they are gambling on upgrades. RNH is a huge upgrade to Stepan, with all of his vision and a shot. Schultz today is a step below proven #1 All Star calibre backliners specializing in D, let alone two of them, but would address the need a shot from the point, esp on PP. Marincin + Gernat are both tall righties, and are balance to Rangers Noreau and Ceresnak both also full sized. They are all pushing to be here w/in 2 years,

Moving 3 Ds initially makes Edmonton wince, they are getting two premium, top shelf Ds in return, and they have top D prospect Klefborn who is closer to knocking at the door.

In terms of what is immediate, RNH is a big salary, the three Ds surrendered are not; Staal-Girardi = larger salary than RNH, Stepan will not be cheap forever, but increases to he and Boyle are down the road. Edmonton absorbs extra salary over an additional roster player, NY gets 1 big salary hit, Schultz = ELC, Marancin + Gernat salary implications further down the road. SO RANGERS ACHIEVE AN IMPORTANT OBJECTIVE, CREATE CAP SPACE TO KEEP McDONAGH, KREIDER, ETC.

All 4 players make the Oilers club. The familiar tandem = new top pair, Stepan = top 6, and Boyle will fit, probably 3rd line.
RNH + Schultz make Rangers, Gernat + Marancin = farm for now.

So how do Rangers fill out roster?
At C you lose 1 (Stepan) and gain a great 1 (RNH); you lose another
(Boyle) and promote JT Miller. A big plus on balance down the middle, and RNH facilitates best fall back position to moving Richards, which from salary point is something that has to get done eventually (unless he is bought out and re-signed for a lot, lot less).

D is tougher.
Schultz may eventually grow to partner with McDonagh (NY can now reach out to long term deal).
reasonable to assume Del Zotto will return, not to huge deal, but short term for raise he wants on 1 maybe 2 year deal. Balance of backline remains the same. So NY is down one, admittedly a big one.
In the near term, former first rounder Dylan McIrath, a stay at home tough guy clear the crease type, should be do-able at the bottom pair sooner than later.

As to what's immediate, you need to make a deal.
Even if you don't, and I'm sure many will disagree, getting terrific return and repurposing salary like this is worth it.

However, somebody like Yandle from Phoenix would more than fill the bill, just to look at top end and work down; as to what they would want, young cheap offense, NY might have to juggle with a third team partner (Chicago) to get young offense more immediately ready (Saad) for that.

So killing 2 birds with one stone maybe first something like

Brad Richards (at a salary dump consideration discount) +
Christian Thomas (all the skills but undersized)
+ an x factor F like Thomas Spelling
+ a variable like D Pavel Valentenko, who might challenge for bottom pair now
+ a solid prospect D (like Calle Andersson), and a Rangers 4th,
for
F Brandon Saad and D Dylan Olsen

Rangers keep Olsen.

Ship Brandon Saad +
Michael St. Croix (ok, a little smallish has track record of scoring), + Andrew Yogan (big 6'3, w/some scoring track record not too far away)
+ Boo Nieves (also big 6'3, seems to be promising 2 way F, ok, but green)
should be enough for
Yandle from Phoenix

Also slight improvement on salary swap of Richards out, Yandle in

Oscar Lindberg is your eventual replacement as 3 or 4c. In the meantime, everybody bumps up one, and Miller, very fast, is a good match w/Kreider/Hagelin + Callahan

so Rangers wind up w:

Nash RNH Gaborik
Kreider Miller Callahan
Hagelin Rupp Pyatt
Bickel Halperin Asham
Michael Haley is the call up

McDonagh Yandle
MDZ Schultz
Olsen Stralman
McIlrath
with several knocking on the door if MDZ is moved next year

So yes, after the proof to the theorem, Yakupov could net a high potential D; an established D is not impossible, everything is based on exactly who we are talking about; but Oilers might get better overall result keeping Yak and swapping a higher piece, then getting 2 prime first pair Ds in return.

The above was necessary to prove Rangers could give up both 1Ds in top pair allowing Edmonton to pursue its course, and still improve, if the names above are involved.
The Rangers are a cup contender and they shouldn't be rebuilding anytime soon, which is basically what you are suggesting.

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Old
01-01-2013, 01:05 PM
  #49
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Edmonton had the chance to draft a better defenceman then Hedman in the 2012 draft. Edmonton will not be trading Yakupov any time soon.
wtf,there was no defenseman in the 2012 draft that was projected to be better than Hedman.

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Old
01-01-2013, 01:09 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
I think EDM would benefit from a MaxPac+ for Yak deal.
Max Pac + for Yakupov... I lol'd real hard at that one. The + was icing!!

Almost as hard a laugh as Subban for Yakupov.

Thanks guys you made be laugh hard in this new year!!

Yakupov ... who'se done nothing in the NHL level... who has a hard time against kids in the wjc, who seems to be a puck hog and let's not forget the Russian effect and you are offering him for NHL mainstays and superstars???

Come on man get serious!!

OEL or Pieterangelo for Yak... hilarious!!

Oilers screwed the pooch when they drafted Yak. They should have drafted Murray... and don't give me the alwats draft best player available... for 4 of the last 5 years they drafted 1st... they got their best player available... they should have went with need this year.
And Murray fit that bill completely... hell 6 other defensive prospects would have cut it as well.

But I don't mind at all... thanks to that dumb move we got to draft Galchenyuk!!

Superstars for an unproven prospect... wow!


Last edited by Mahleezer: 01-01-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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