HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

tor-clb

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-31-2012, 10:18 PM
  #26
BonkTastic
+/- =Worst Stat EVER
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
MacA is worth more than a 2nd. Proof: See Paul Gaustad.
People need to stop using bad, lopsided trades to determine "value".

If Macarthur is worth more than a 2nd because of Gaustad, then what can we say Sidney Crosby is worth when Wayne Gretzky was dealt for Patrice Tardif, Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Peter Hogan and Matt Zultek?

Using that Gretzky trade as a comparable: Sidney Crosby to the Sens for Stephane Da Costa, Eric Condra, Patrick Wiercioch, and a 1st and 5th rounder. Same value as Gretzky had, right?

BonkTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2012, 10:28 PM
  #27
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,573
vCash: 500
MacArthur gets crapped on because he blows. Poor man's Versteeg, who is a poor man's something else. The sooner Leafs management realizes that he can be replaced by any second rate UFA and moves him the better off they'd be. Of course, given that Burke wouldn't get a late 1st for him, I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2012, 10:40 PM
  #28
TOGuy14
Registered User
 
TOGuy14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Didn`t Burke shop Macarthur at the deadline a few years ago and get little interest? It doesn't mean the interest isn't there of course, but it does mean that the interest in Macarthur is lower than Burke's interest in keeping him. I'd say the 2nd should be enough.
Burke stated (whether true or not) that he had an offer of a 1st for MacA at the last deadline I believe.

TOGuy14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2012, 11:03 PM
  #29
Phion Keneuf
Top Dawg Ent.
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 28,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
MacArthur gets crapped on because he blows. Poor man's Versteeg, who is a poor man's something else. The sooner Leafs management realizes that he can be replaced by any second rate UFA and moves him the better off they'd be. Of course, given that Burke wouldn't get a late 1st for him, I wouldn't be holding my breath.
Haha Mac is a great player.

Everyone rags on him here because most leafs fans toss him into proposals and he doesn't have the flashiest name.

He's a versatile 2nd/3rd liner who can put up 40-50 points while having no major flaws. He's a great playmaker, pretty quick, has good hands and a decent shot. He also isn't a liability defensively, he's no stalwart though.

You can stick him on any line and he'll produce, met him last year and he's a good guy as well.

Phion Keneuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 12:22 AM
  #30
7even
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
MacArthur gets crapped on because he blows. Poor man's Versteeg, who is a poor man's something else. The sooner Leafs management realizes that he can be replaced by any second rate UFA and moves him the better off they'd be. Of course, given that Burke wouldn't get a late 1st for him, I wouldn't be holding my breath.
Lolwut? Sir you have a very strong opinion about Clarke MacArthur. Calm down lmao.

7even is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 07:37 AM
  #31
Frenzy1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Haha Mac is a great player.

Everyone rags on him here because most leafs fans toss him into proposals and he doesn't have the flashiest name.

He's a versatile 2nd/3rd liner who can put up 40-50 points while having no major flaws. He's a great playmaker, pretty quick, has good hands and a decent shot. He also isn't a liability defensively, he's no stalwart though.

You can stick him on any line and he'll produce, met him last year and he's a good guy as well.
He isn't a 50 point player. He cleared 40 points 2 times in his carear. That is it. He is a 2nd or 3rd line player that most teams have plenty of - including the Jackets. If he is moved, he will likely bring a 3rd rounder - depth type of trade to a contender- which we have seen in a number of cases over the years.

It has nothing to do with hate for him or him being a leaf. He just isn't an upgrade to what most teams have on their 2nd or 3rd line.

And as for the Gaustad comparison - he isn't a center, with size who wins face-offs and has playoff experience.

He isn't a top 6 forward on a contender, but a 3rd line player. Which isn't bad, but the real question would become is he an upgrade over what that team has or not. A lot of contenders have players in a simular mold already.

Frenzy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 09:14 AM
  #32
Hennig
It was 4-1.
 
Hennig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
People need to stop using bad, lopsided trades to determine "value".

If Macarthur is worth more than a 2nd because of Gaustad, then what can we say Sidney Crosby is worth when Wayne Gretzky was dealt for Patrice Tardif, Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Peter Hogan and Matt Zultek?

Using that Gretzky trade as a comparable: Sidney Crosby to the Sens for Stephane Da Costa, Eric Condra, Patrick Wiercioch, and a 1st and 5th rounder. Same value as Gretzky had, right?


Gaustad was traded in Febuary 2012. Gretzky was traded in 1996. Big difference.

Hennig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 09:41 AM
  #33
kihei
Registered User
 
kihei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,135
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
No, Burke said he was offered a conditional 1st and turned it down.
Could have been the usual Irish blarney coming from Burke, though, unless the condition was the other team won the Stanley Cup.

kihei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 10:14 AM
  #34
BonkTastic
+/- =Worst Stat EVER
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post


Gaustad was traded in Febuary 2012. Gretzky was traded in 1996. Big difference.
Why? Why is it different?

Are bad trades made in 1996 worse or better because they were done in 1996? Is a bad trade in 2002 worse than a bad trade in 2008 for any tangible reason? Better? Is there some kind of statute of limitations on bad trades... like, one bad trade sets the market for all other 29 NHL teams for a period of no less than one year, and no greater than three? Five?

My point: you can't use bad trades as a gauge for real trade value.

If you get ripped off by a guy on eBay because the $50 puck autographed by Phil Kessel you bought turned out to be a forgery... it does not make all "fake-Kessel-pucks" out there on the internet now worth $50. It doesn't reset the market value of those items.

You can't say "I think it's fair that San Jose should send Michael Handzus, TJ Galiardi, Adam Burish and Jason Demers to the Leafs for Dion Phaneuf, because that's the marketplace value Phaneuf has based on the last time he was traded".
It just doesn't work that way. Calgary made an awful, awful deal. Their brain-fart does not set the market value for players of Phaneuf's caliber.


Last edited by BonkTastic: 01-01-2013 at 10:23 AM.
BonkTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 10:26 AM
  #35
Drew311
Whitey Whackers
 
Drew311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,302
vCash: 500
What would Columbus want for Dubinsky? I'd love to have him on the Leafs.

Lets disregard the fact that they just traded for him as the main piece for their former franchise player.

Drew311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 10:30 AM
  #36
BonkTastic
+/- =Worst Stat EVER
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
What would Columbus want for Dubinsky? I'd love to have him on the Leafs.

Lets disregard the fact that they just traded for him as the main piece for their former franchise player.
As an outsider with no love for either team: Bozak and MacArthur, conditional to whether MacA will sign a contract extension before the deal is finalized?

BonkTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 10:51 AM
  #37
Hennig
It was 4-1.
 
Hennig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Why? Why is it different?

Are bad trades made in 1996 worse or better because they were done in 1996? Is a bad trade in 2002 worse than a bad trade in 2008 for any tangible reason? Better? Is there some kind of statute of limitations on bad trades... like, one bad trade sets the market for all other 29 NHL teams for a period of no less than one year, and no greater than three? Five?

My point: you can't use bad trades as a gauge for real trade value.

If you get ripped off by a guy on eBay because the $50 puck autographed by Phil Kessel you bought turned out to be a forgery... it does not make all "fake-Kessel-pucks" out there on the internet now worth $50. It doesn't reset the market value of those items.

You can't say "I think it's fair that San Jose should send Michael Handzus, TJ Galiardi, Adam Burish and Jason Demers to the Leafs for Dion Phaneuf, because that's the marketplace value Phaneuf has based on the last time he was traded".
It just doesn't work that way. Calgary made an awful, awful deal. Their brain-fart does not set the market value for players of Phaneuf's caliber.
You just simply can't compare a players value to another player 15 years ago and say they should be traded for an equal package.. So many factors to consider like how different the game of hockey was, the CBA, etc. Also including the fact that Gretzky partially asked to be traded, and that he was unhappy in Los Angelas. You simply cannot compare Gretzky's value 15 years ago, to Sidney Crosbys value. Your eBay analogy isn't very fair, but I'll give you ten points for creativity. I shouldn't have to explain to you why comparing a puck sold on ebay, to an NHL players worth to their NHL team isn't very sensible. I'm sure a majority of general managers use recent trades to partially determine a players value, why not? I'm not saying a recent trade sets in stone a similar players value. But it's a reliable starting point to work from. If a soon to-be UFA Gaustad netted a late first, why would Burke take something substantially less for Macarthur? Obviously I don't have any hard evidence to support my claim, but I don't see why a GM wouldn't use a recent trade, bad trade or not, and use it as some sort of negotiation tactic. And as for fans using a recent trade to gauge a players value, I don't see a problem with it. It's better than pulling it out of ones derriere.

I'm sorry if you have a hard time understanding this post, I think I'm still a little drunk from last night, with a huge headache to go with it. So I can't really be assed to look through it, and rearrange the post. Hopefully you can catch the gist of it.


Last edited by Hennig: 01-01-2013 at 11:27 AM.
Hennig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 11:52 AM
  #38
Seventeen Twos
Registered User
 
Seventeen Twos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
on behalf of all leaf fans I apologize for OP's proposal

Seventeen Twos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 12:10 PM
  #39
TSA0402
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,237
vCash: 500
Jenner is the kind of prospect Columbus needs to keep, and MacArthur is a slight upgrade at this point and his age doesn't really click with Blue Jackets direction right now.

TSA0402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 12:16 PM
  #40
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,157
vCash: 500
This proposal wouldn't be bad if MacArthur had years left on his contract and Columbus was at the very minimum a bubble team in need of a solid 2nd line winger. Since neither are true its a pretty bad offer.

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 12:16 PM
  #41
dubey
Phagoof am i rite??/
 
dubey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Hackey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
Your 60 point winger did that one time and then his highest point total is 43. Lets not make him into something he isn't - he is a 2nd line or 3rd line player on an bottom 10 team.
Sounds like you're projecting Boone Jenner's career at the same time lol

I doubt Jenner ever comes close to 60 points in the NHL though

dubey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 01:35 PM
  #42
Frenzy1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Sounds like you're projecting Boone Jenner's career at the same time lol

I doubt Jenner ever comes close to 60 points in the NHL though
That is very true. BUT, you are looking at value - and Clarke doesn't have a lot for multiple reasons listed above, especially for the Jackets.

Jenner is worth more then a 3rd and has more value to CBJ then MacArther does when you look at the fact that you will likely have him for the next 7 years - MacArther only 6 months. Jenner also plays a more important position and I expect him to have a simular carear to Dubinski. Personally, I would rather have Dubinski then MacArther.

Frenzy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 01:48 PM
  #43
Mystifo
No more Mr.FightGuy
 
Mystifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: YYT
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeksideStrangler View Post
To Tor - Boone Jenner, 2nd

To clb - Clarke MacArthur
Yeah.... I apologize to any Columbus fans for this. We do not all think the same as this.

Mystifo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:02 PM
  #44
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 15,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Haha Mac is a great player.

Everyone rags on him here because most leafs fans toss him into proposals and he doesn't have the flashiest name.

He's a versatile 2nd/3rd liner who can put up 40-50 points while having no major flaws. He's a great playmaker, pretty quick, has good hands and a decent shot. He also isn't a liability defensively, he's no stalwart though.

You can stick him on any line and he'll produce, met him last year and he's a good guy as well.
So basically, a poor man's Antoine Vermette. Antoine Vermette was just traded for a 2nd- and a 4th-rounder, and he does play on the first PK unit.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:11 PM
  #45
Almighty
Registered User
 
Almighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 547
vCash: 500
I'm not really getting the MacArthur hate that's going on here but whatever.

As for the proposal, I doubt Columbus would do that. I actually think something around Dubinsky for Macarthur+ could work. Then again, I'm going to be called a 'typical stupid Leafs fan" for even bringing that up.

Almighty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:38 PM
  #46
Roadman
Moving On
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London OH
Country: United States
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsfan3 View Post
I'm not really getting the MacArthur hate that's going on here but whatever.

As for the proposal, I doubt Columbus would do that. I actually think something around Dubinsky for Macarthur+ could work. Then again, I'm going to be called a 'typical stupid Leafs fan" for even bringing that up.
Just one question.

WHY?

Roadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #47
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
No, Burke said he was offered a conditional 1st and turned it down.
Yeah, and you believed that?

He also said he was offered first round draft picks for Mikhail Grabovski and James Riemer too. If he was actually offered what he claims he was, and he didn't pull the trigger, the man is an idiot and should have been fired.

But he also claimed the Leafs had pegged Morgan Riely as the top prospect in the entry draft, so it's pretty clear he's a blowhard who says ridiculous things.

FerrisRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:49 PM
  #48
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
MacA is worth more than a 2nd. Proof: See Paul Gaustad.
Paul Guastad is an elite checking center with solid faceoff ability. Clarke MacArthur isn't elite in any way, shape or form and is third line 'tweener on a half way decent team.

Your inability to see the difference between these two players and the roles they play speaks volumes about your knowledge of hockey.

FerrisRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:56 PM
  #49
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
This proposal wouldn't be bad if MacArthur had years left on his contract and Columbus was at the very minimum a bubble team in need of a solid 2nd line winger. Since neither are true its a pretty bad offer.
Clarke MacArthur isn't a "solid second line winger" either. Do you guys really think we don't watch hockey games? You can't just point to one season where he posted 62 points on a ****** team that gave him way more ice time and powerplay time then he'd ever get on a half way decent team then pretend that that one season - which is an anomaly - some how represents what kind of player he is and what kind of numbers he can post then simply pretend no one else has ever seen him play. We've seen him, we know that on a good team he's clinging to a third line role.

I find it constantly amazing that over the years here, Leaf fans constantly make outrageous, uneducated and borderline fabricated claims about their players and when fans from other teams point out these claims are ridiculous, they constantly fire back with the absurd notion that other fanbases are "jealous" of the Leafs (and their legacy of failure I suppose) so they constantly discredit their players.

Huh?

Really?

FerrisRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:58 PM
  #50
Jax Teller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
MacArthur gets crapped on so much it's not even funny. I don't think Jenner is likely to be more than a 3rd line guy, which is something Toronto is swimming in. I'd rather pawn him off to a contender for a late 1st and grab Fucale/de la Rose/Theodore or something.
I'd prefer this aswell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Yeah, and you believed that?

He also said he was offered first round draft picks for Mikhail Grabovski and James Riemer too. If he was actually offered what he claims he was, and he didn't pull the trigger, the man is an idiot and should have been fired.

But he also claimed the Leafs had pegged Morgan Riely as the top prospect in the entry draft, so it's pretty clear he's a blowhard who says ridiculous things.
Yeah, he should have traded there best center and one of the better second line centers in the league for a ****** late first? James Reimer, aswell. The 2nd year NHL player, who happens to be the Leafs best goaltender, who was coming off a .921 save pct season as a rookie.. From a team that hasn't had a competent goalie since Ed Belfour in 2004.

What an effing moron.

Jax Teller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.