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Did the 2011 draft hurt us more than anything else?

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12-31-2012, 01:43 PM
  #26
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I was happy with the Biggs at the time and right now I am still happy with it. Percy I am not mad with it but in hindsight Jenner would of been a solid addition (Even more so with grabbing Finn this year.) But I am still happy as Percy can become a solid top 4 guy who is reliable defensively something our D core sorely misses right now.

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12-31-2012, 01:47 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
The only person who has any right to comment in this thread is Duke Silver because he had the good sense to re-post his comment following the draft.

That being said, not one player being mentioned here is getting actual NHL time, and Percy had a severe knee injury last season that delayed his development. Without that knee injury, he might be on the WJC roster and people would be going ga-ga over him and Rielly.

Biggs is a power-forward build. He will take until at least 2014-15 to grow into his body and even then may take another year or so to learn to use it properly before joining the NHL roster.

Everyone needs to take a step back and wait before making definitive decisions on the quality of the draft picks.
Hes the only one who has the right to comment? I liked both picks and still do. Why cant I comment?

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Originally Posted by gmjohnny View Post
What about Brett Ritchie? He was in the same draft and is an even better power forward with 1st or 2nd line potential. Biggs is looking more and more like a 3rd to 4th line guy. I hated the trade at the time, Percy was also ranked between 40th and 50th depending. Big forwards were a priority and we could have had Saad, Ritchie, Jenner, or who knows, Biggs may have even been there at 25. Poor judgement by Burke
I dont see how Biggs is looking more and more like third or fourth liner. Hes exceeding all offensive predictions by so called "experts" this season.

If theres one thing the WJC has proven, its that its a terrible indication of the calibre of NHL career the player will have.

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12-31-2012, 01:51 PM
  #28
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We don't know yet, they haven't played an NHL game yet.

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12-31-2012, 05:00 PM
  #29
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Hindsight 20/20....

We could have taken Sakic,Percy only looks a little rough because we have so many dmen now. Biggs was Morrison,someone was going to take him and he pushed Burke.The jury is still out,but every draft everyone could have drafted better with a chart.If Jenner is so great,why did every other GM pass? Biggs and Percy I can live with it,it isn't that bad,neither is a dud.

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12-31-2012, 05:11 PM
  #30
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To be honest,had we gotten Jenner people will complain that he's not the #1 centre we need etc.

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12-31-2012, 05:29 PM
  #31
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Right on time for the WJC hype. Pogge dominated the tournament too! Where's he now? Italy?

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12-31-2012, 08:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
The only person who has any right to comment in this thread is Duke Silver because he had the good sense to re-post his comment following the draft.
Yet you post? Anyways, I was looking to pick up Phillips instead of Percy at the draft, but if we had our magical time travel machine, it'd be Ritchie and Rattie. Wish we could have moved up though, maybe enough to 9th

Also, wish we picked up Makarov or Ebert in the 7th round in the past draft.

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12-31-2012, 09:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by I am Canadian View Post
Right on time for the WJC hype. Pogge dominated the tournament too! Where's he now? Italy?
Yes he is in Italy playing for Ritten Sport.

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12-31-2012, 09:16 PM
  #34
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Yes he is in Italy playing for Ritten Sport.
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12-31-2012, 09:19 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
We didn't trade Rackell and Gibson for Biggs. It's almost certain that had we kept those picks we wouldn't have selected Rackell or likely Gibson.
Burke wouldn't have taken Rakell. That's just not the sort of player he goes looking for at the draft. Gibson is 50/50.

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12-31-2012, 09:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
You really need to hook me up with your crystal ball. You already know what prospects are going to be before they are close to being done developing.
Guessing who the Leafs might have picked had they not traded up for Biggs is pure speculation. Saying you don't think Biggs is a good pick at that slot is legit criticism and there were more than a few posters who didn't like the Biggs pick at the time because they projected him as the kind of player who, even if he pans out, can be gotten. That's not a new criticism. Maybe they'll be proven wrong, sure (I wasn't one of them, I didn't know Biggs beyond his stats sheet), but making projections like that is surely one of the things boards like this are for.

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12-31-2012, 09:35 PM
  #37
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Biggs was a risky pick. It's not likely that he reaches his absolute peak, but his potentia is very scary. He's a guy who has the tools to be a dominant power forward on the level of Milan Lucic.

Like Lucic, his offensive skills are secondary. Also like Lucic, he can dominate the physical side of the game while having just enough skill to keep up to skilled top-6ers.

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12-31-2012, 09:51 PM
  #38
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Tyler Biggs is a great pick and those questioning that pick will eat their words down the road. He's a big strong power forward that with standing injuries should have a solid NHL career.

The kid is playing awesome in the OHL.. and in the world juniors he's had some nice moments.. however the kid is playing limited 4th line minutes for the most part.

the stuart percy pick i questioned at the time and still do.. I know he's a solid young Dman with promise but who knows if he'll turn into anything special or struggle to hold onto an NHL job.

I remember people talking about Boone Jenner at the draft...

TBH people on with message board really do know prospects.. those that follow the OHL and WHL and Q.. are great at predicting talent. The last couple years some posters have been spot on. And i do recall a few people praising Boone Jenner to no end that year... Kudos to them..

For every guy that predicted Boone jenner there's a person that would have taken nakita filatov over luke schenn So it balances itself out!

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12-31-2012, 10:31 PM
  #39
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I have no problem with how the 11 draft played out, didnt then and dont in retrospect. I do admit to prefering Jenner instead of Percy but neither I nor anyone else here can pretend to know who'll turn out to be the better pro..

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12-31-2012, 10:38 PM
  #40
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I wanted Puempel and Gibson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Jenner is the only one who gives me pause.

Gibson, meh. How many goalies who have good WJC go on to have mediocre to terrible NHL careers? More then those who great careers.

PF typically take longer to develop then other forward positions. Biggs has exceeded all expectations this year and is developing nicely. His combination of size and grit, willingness to use said size, and some offensive talent will be important to us in the future.

Percy is also coming along nicely. He should be a steady top 4 guy for us.
Gibson has been awesome for the Rangers as well. He's very good at not allowing goals against to bother him, and performs well under pressure. I think the Ducks have a great prospect.

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12-31-2012, 11:10 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Guessing who the Leafs might have picked had they not traded up for Biggs is pure speculation. Saying you don't think Biggs is a good pick at that slot is legit criticism and there were more than a few posters who didn't like the Biggs pick at the time because they projected him as the kind of player who, even if he pans out, can be gotten. That's not a new criticism. Maybe they'll be proven wrong, sure (I wasn't one of them, I didn't know Biggs beyond his stats sheet), but making projections like that is surely one of the things boards like this are for.
I agree with that but that's not the point. It's the way he said it.

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01-01-2013, 09:21 AM
  #42
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I wanted the Leafs to select Gibson with their Second round pick.....Chris Gibson that is. Another former Hound and a real winner. The Kings Drafted him and their goaltending looks great for years to come.

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Old
01-01-2013, 09:23 AM
  #43
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Hindsight IS 20/20. But even now, it's way too early to judge.

I'm a big fan of Biggs personally. He has the "Intangibles" unlike anyone in our organization. He won't be a "Star", but can be a really valuable piece that's rare to have in the NHL.

He actually reminds me of a Detroit prospect, which is no surprise since they wanted to draft him badly in 2011'.

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01-01-2013, 09:35 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Hindsight IS 20/20. But even now, it's way too early to judge.

I'm a big fan of Biggs personally. He has the "Intangibles" unlike anyone in our organization. He won't be a "Star", but can be a really valuable piece that's rare to have in the NHL.

He actually reminds me of a Detroit prospect, which is no surprise since they wanted to draft him badly in 2011'.
A Tomas Holmstrom clone ?

That might be the end result cause and effect of Biggs should he make it.. Someone who will crash the net and screen the goalie, and give the defense headaches moving him from the front of the net.

Our current Leafs are small and soft and easily intimidated, but those are certainly not things one would use to describe Briggs' game.

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01-01-2013, 09:44 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardslane View Post
Tyler Biggs is a great pick and those questioning that pick will eat their words down the road. He's a big strong power forward that with standing injuries should have a solid NHL career.

The kid is playing awesome in the OHL.. and in the world juniors he's had some nice moments.. however the kid is playing limited 4th line minutes for the most part.
I hope you are correct regarding Biggs, but I had concerns when we drafted him and nothing has changed since then and I see him often in Oshawa. Obviously he's got good size and is a pretty good skater, but I was expecting more of a wrecking ball type of winger and havent seen that yet. He does play physical, but not a level I expected in him. He needs to work on conditioning, IMO, as he is first player on his line to come off the ice pretty consistently. Saw same thing at the WJC. Stick handling and ability to take puck in stride is also a weakness. Biggs seems to be putting up decent numbers as he is much bigger and stronger than most kids in junior, that wont be the case at the NHL level. He's got quite a bit of improving to do in order to make the NHL, IMO. When I watch Jenner, I see a guy who is already good enough to play in the NHL.

Again...mentioned on another post. I'm not so concerned about who we picked in the 2011 draft, more worried about the price we paid to move up to get two players who look no better than a number of players picked after them.

Obviously its early days and plenty of time for players to improve/regress, but based on what we see today, its hard to argue with the folk who are saying the trade looks a mistake.

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01-01-2013, 09:54 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
A Tomas Holmstrom clone ?

That might be the end result cause and effect of Biggs should he make it.. Someone who will crash the net and screen the goalie, and give the defense headaches moving him from the front of the net.

Our current Leafs are small and soft and easily intimidated, but those are certainly not things one would use to describe Briggs' game.
If that's what we get out of Biggs, that's great. We sorely need that type of player. It's scary to think he's already bigger than most NHLers and is just a kid yet. He could prove a real force in front and in the corners.

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01-01-2013, 10:01 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Biggs was a risky pick. It's not likely that he reaches his absolute peak, but his potentia is very scary. He's a guy who has the tools to be a dominant power forward on the level of Milan Lucic.

Like Lucic, his offensive skills are secondary. Also like Lucic, he can dominate the physical side of the game while having just enough skill to keep up to skilled top-6ers.
I dont really see Biggs as being risky at all, actually. He already possesses the physical tools to play in the NHL, which means at worst weve got a big physical 3rd/4th liner to bang and smash. Now that may not seem like much, but its something we dont have and havent had a good one in a few years.

Hes FAR away from a boom or bust player IMO.

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Old
01-01-2013, 10:30 AM
  #48
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A draft from 1.5 years ago hardly 'hurts' us at the moment. The 2003 draft, hurt this team. The 2004 draft, hurt this team. The trading of our first round prospects before they could establish themselves in the league, hurt this team.

Even if you didn't like the picks, it's too early to say whether the draft was a bust or not.

WJC always brings out this type of conversation and the overhyping (and sometimes underhyping) of certain player(s). It`s a great tournament, but it`s just that. Some players go on to great careers, others not so much. It`s hard to put too much stock in it one way or another.

The Biggs pick seemed to be the right choice based off of the rankings. The argument will always be whether the 2nd round pick was too much to move up and I understand that - but this is the guy Burke and his scouting group thought was worth moving up for (unless you think Burke totally igorned his staff and made the move just for the sake of making it). As for Percy, if I recall he made a huge push late in the season up many teams rankings thanks to a strong Mem Cup Run (which doesn`t reflect in many of the rankings IIRC). Going back to Bob McKenzie, I believe he had him right outside the top 30 initally, but was one of the next best players at 25 (due to teams picking out of Bob`s order). When you are drafting late in round 1, depending on the year, you aren`t drafting a blue chipper. Many of the players in those 20+ range project career wise to where the Maple Leafs hope Biggs and Percy project.

I see a few posters saying it didn't make sense to take him now that we have Rielly and Finn. A pretty silly argument. If anything, the stockpiling of defensive prospects may allow the Leafs to deal for a forward (or forward prospect). It`s not a bad thing to stockpile assets in a certain position..not that it`s the Leafs plan, it just seemed to unfold that way. If the draft is BPA, then Leafs had Finn (specifically) fall into their lap last year based off where they had him ranked. They didn`t know who they were going to pick a year prior to the draft. Just like many around here didn`t assume the Leafs would be taking Morgan Rielly at 5 (and thought for sure the Leafs, needing a skilled center, would have selected one).

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01-01-2013, 10:36 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
If that's what we get out of Biggs, that's great. We sorely need that type of player. It's scary to think he's already bigger than most NHLers and is just a kid yet. He could prove a real force in front and in the corners.
The thing with Biggs is he`s still learning how to play that way (power forward style). The one thing that does scare me is that he doesn`t seem to have a ton of confidence in himself. I believe he even made a comment about not being an offensive guy (it was right after his draft I think), or that not being his game. The vibe that his comment gave off, to me, was that he was fine being a bottom rung grunt guy (if someone can find the link to the quote that would be great). Then again, maybe I`m just interpreting it wrong.

But you can see it alot in his game though. Shooting from the perimeter, not wanting to really hold onto the puck long..that would concern me, but maybe his confidence will come in time (or the proper coaching).

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01-01-2013, 10:40 AM
  #50
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The draft is always a crap-shoot. My targets in 2011 were Saad and Rattie.

I wasn't terribly upset with the Biggs and Percy picks, at that time they were the safest two prospects with late 1st round picks.

Bigger power forwards (Like Biggs) take time to develop. If anyone watched many US games at the World Juniors they'd know that Biggs has played the game he was brought in to play. He's playing a big physical game, he's being gritty in the corners and using his size and speed to intimidate.

He has the skill to eventually develop into a solid 2nd line winger; however, he'll probably end up being a decent 3rd liner at the NHL level. Biggs might not be the most talented player taken in the late 1st/early 2nd round (in 2011), but he was a safe pick, and safe isn't always a bad thing.

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