HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)

Better captain: Saku Koivu vs Daniel Alfredsson

View Poll Results: Who is the better captain?
Saku Koivu 29 21.64%
Daniel Alfredsson 90 67.16%
Tie 15 11.19%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-31-2012, 06:09 PM
  #26
sharks9
Registered User
 
sharks9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,474
vCash: 500
People are voting Alfredsson just because he's a better player, not because he's a better leader.

Every ranking of NHL captains goes:

Johnny Toews
Everyone based on player skill
Dion Phaneuf


Because none of us have any clue as to who's the better captain.

sharks9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 09:30 AM
  #27
darglor
Registered User
 
darglor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 711
vCash: 50
Alfie's always been a team-first guy. Things like taking a pay cut in order to sign valued teammates/friends or taking in a rookie Karlsson into his home display that. He's also always been big on the city itself, with his suggesting that he intends to stay around instead of going back to Sweden when it's all said and done.

darglor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 10:20 AM
  #28
Melnyks Mirage
We are what we are.
 
Melnyks Mirage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cumberland
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,605
vCash: 50
Well if you are talking about individual awards, ALfredsson.
If you are talking about team achievements, our captain has a Cup finals so Alfredsson.

I do have to give a massive edge to Saku for just being able to captain a team in Montreal for such a long time. There is like...zero pressure from media here in Ottawa. Jason York is sloshed most of the time he is on the radio, Steve Lloyd is somewhat objective, rest of Team 1200 basically jump if the Senators tell them to and the print media is sold out to the team as well.

The lack of overall expectations in the past few years has allowed Alfredsson to quietly help his team rebuild and while he did face intense criticism early on (pre-2007) that's all gone now.

If you look at Saku, he got it for not speaking French (would never happen in Ottawa), his leadership was questioned as well as his production and it literally took a bout with cancer to unite the fanbase behind him, a fanbase which was quite divided on his ability to be a captain. Like it or not, it's a lot tougher to play in Montreal than it is here, where we have a young franchise whose ties to history are a hundred years ago and not more recent (through no fault of our own).

Melnyks Mirage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 10:29 AM
  #29
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by darglor View Post
He's also always been big on the city itself, with his suggesting that he intends to stay around instead of going back to Sweden when it's all said and done.
That speaks more about Alfie as a person than a captain. While it's hard to judge captains outside the locker room, Alfie was a lead by example so it's easier to judge him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFanDan View Post
where we have a young franchise whose ties to history are a hundred years ago and not more recent (through no fault of our own).
All what you said rings true for Phaneuf too if he continues to remain captain for the Leafs. Eerie. Except of course the language. Methinks your definition is not so good.

HavlatMach9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 06:46 PM
  #30
the
Registered User
 
the's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
I'm going with Saku Koivu...it's unfortunate he never got the chance at the cup in Montreal. During a long period of time, he would be the only player to show up and play and had to carry the team on his back with little support.

Saku would have been a top player in this league but injuries and years of playing with crappy team mates screwed him.

the is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 06:50 PM
  #31
The Head Crusher
Moderator
 
The Head Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 6257
Send a message via MSN to The Head Crusher
Alfie is a step or two above Koivu.

__________________
The Head Crusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 11:04 PM
  #32
Bleedred
BEAT LA!
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 31,919
vCash: 500
Alfredsson for sure.

Bleedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 11:38 PM
  #33
brom7
Registered User
 
brom7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 1,261
vCash: 500
Voted Alfie, but Saku was pretty clutch in his Habs days.

brom7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 01:13 AM
  #34
MakeTheGoalsLarger
Registered User
 
MakeTheGoalsLarger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 793
vCash: 500
saku koivu was not a good captain

MakeTheGoalsLarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 01:15 AM
  #35
Intoewsables
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Intoewsables's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,065
vCash: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
no idea

I haven't played with either of them
I'm pretty sure this is the correct answer for everyone.

Intoewsables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 09:01 AM
  #36
TheYuleGoat
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeTheGoalsLarger View Post
saku koivu was not a good captain
I like to make comments with no evidence to back them up too.

TheYuleGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 12:18 PM
  #37
Hagged
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 1,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by darglor View Post
Alfie's always been a team-first guy. Things like taking a pay cut in order to sign valued teammates/friends or taking in a rookie Karlsson into his home display that. He's also always been big on the city itself, with his suggesting that he intends to stay around instead of going back to Sweden when it's all said and done.
This.

Something you can't say about Koivu. The first chance and he was on a flight to California with his family .

Hagged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #38
Erik Alfredsson
Registered User
 
Erik Alfredsson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,146
vCash: 500
Koivu never carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson is and was a great captain, he was always there when you needed him and always put the team before himself. Even when there was speculation of him being traded, he went and carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson will always be the greatest captain Ottawa ever had, the same can't be said for Koivu.

Erik Alfredsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 02:55 PM
  #39
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
Koivu never carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson is and was a great captain, he was always there when you needed him and always put the team before himself. Even when there was speculation of him being traded, he went and carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson will always be the greatest captain Ottawa ever had, the same can't be said for Koivu.
Saku captained his team to 2 upsets vs the heavily favoured Boston Bruins, one with a 3-1 series come back. While Alfie kept leading his team (some of the most talent teams in the NHL), to playoff defeats vs the Leafs again, again, and again.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 03:03 PM
  #40
sharks9
Registered User
 
sharks9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
Koivu never carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson is and was a great captain, he was always there when you needed him and always put the team before himself. Even when there was speculation of him being traded, he went and carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson will always be the greatest captain Ottawa ever had, the same can't be said for Koivu.
Look at what the loss of Koivu did to Montreal in 2006. They were up 2-0 in the series on the Hurricanes, after Koivu got injured they lost 4 straight.

Dumb comparison, if Alfredsson had been the captain of Montreal, he would not be the greatest captain in our history.

sharks9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 04:39 PM
  #41
Montreal Shadow
Registered User
 
Montreal Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
Koivu never carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson is and was a great captain, he was always there when you needed him and always put the team before himself. Even when there was speculation of him being traded, he went and carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson will always be the greatest captain Ottawa ever had, the same can't be said for Koivu.
If Alfredsson had to compete against the likes of Bob Gainey, Yvan Cournoyer, Maurice Richard, Doug Harvey or Jean Beliveau, he wouldn't be viewed as the best captain in his franchise history.

I also wouldn't hope Alfredsson will be or has been the best Ottawa captain ever. Unless you don't mind staying without a cup for the rest of your history of course.

Montreal Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 08:14 PM
  #42
MakeTheGoalsLarger
Registered User
 
MakeTheGoalsLarger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYuleGoat View Post
I like to make comments with no evidence to back them up too.
he wasn't present in the community (ok he did bought a machine for cancer treatment), did not act like a leader by motivating his teammates ,did not accept to have reduced ice time..... his feud with ribeiro that was caught on camera looked really bad for a captain

oh he gave his all on the ice.........but it takes more than this to be a good captain.


but sure for fans from other teams he looked like a good captain. He was probably a good captain for Finland since he was more comfortable there, but he wasn't in montreal.

MakeTheGoalsLarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 08:32 PM
  #43
Benny FTW
Tool Time Travel
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,578
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Look at what the loss of Koivu did to Montreal in 2006. They were up 2-0 in the series on the Hurricanes, after Koivu got injured they lost 4 straight.
.
That could easily be a coincidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
I also wouldn't hope Alfredsson will be or has been the best Ottawa captain ever. Unless you don't mind staying without a cup for the rest of your history of course.
Good captain =/= Stanely Cup

Ryan Smyth is constantly praised for being such a great captain; I guess he's actually a garbage captain because his TEAM didn't win a cup.

Benny FTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 09:33 PM
  #44
Evincar
Spirit of '94
 
Evincar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
Koivu never carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson is and was a great captain, he was always there when you needed him and always put the team before himself. Even when there was speculation of him being traded, he went and carried his team to the finals.

Alfredsson will always be the greatest captain Ottawa ever had, the same can't be said for Koivu.
Alfredsson didnt carry his team to the finals.


Last edited by spiny norman: 01-04-2013 at 12:58 AM. Reason: corrected spelling
Evincar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 10:00 PM
  #45
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Alfredsson didnt carry his team to the finals.
Check out 2006-2007 where he carried his team to the finals.


Last edited by spiny norman: 01-04-2013 at 01:00 AM. Reason: corrected spelling in quoted post, removed reference to misspelling
HavlatMach9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 11:05 PM
  #46
Montreal Shadow
Registered User
 
Montreal Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Check out 2006-2007 where he carried his team to the finals.
And obviously stellar performances from Heatley and Spezza had nothing to do with it, right? Alfredsson didn't carry anything to the finals. He was a big contributor but his team was stacked as well. I still recall Ottawa disposing of all of their opponents in 5 games. They lost a grand total of 3 games before reaching the cup final.

Then they faced the Ducks and Alfredsson was probably the only player who showed up. Heatley and Spezza were both completely shut down and the Sens couldn't compete with the Ducks physcal dominance. The whole team was very strong until they crumbled in the final, with only Alfredsson doing something effective.

TL;DR what he did was not ''carrying'' his team. He contributed with strong play on a strong team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post

Good captain =/= Stanely Cup

Ryan Smyth is constantly praised for being such a great captain; I guess he's actually a garbage captain because his TEAM didn't win a cup.
You're right but a captain bringing his team to a cup in my books is far far more valuable than one who hasn't done it. If you guys ever win the cup, I believe whoever is the captain at the time should be regarded as the best captain of the franchise. As much as I love Alfredsson there is no way I'd put him above a guy who would captain Ottawa to its first Stanley cup.


Last edited by spiny norman: 01-04-2013 at 12:59 AM. Reason: qmep
Montreal Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 11:07 AM
  #47
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 18,695
vCash: 500
They seem to be similar personalities? Obviously Alfredsson has the better longer-standing reputation as a captain. So much is situational, though, Koivu was in such a mess for so many years in Montreal, I think with better support and structure around him he had the potential to emerge in a place quite similar to Alfredsson, but alas, it just didn't work out that way.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 11:29 AM
  #48
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,088
vCash: 500
Too much would of, could of, should of. This is Alfredsson.

Jonimaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 01:31 PM
  #49
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Check out 2006-2007 where he carried his team to the finals.
Is this the same year where they had 105 points and the best goal differential in the league and Alfredsson was the 3rd best forward on the team during the regular season? The same playoffs where his two linemates equalled him in scoring? Yeah he really carried that garbage team.

EDIT: For the record I voted Alfie, I just thought that argument was pretty ridiculous considering Alfredsson was on one of the most dominant teams in the league in those few years after the lockout.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 02:32 PM
  #50
darglor
Registered User
 
darglor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 711
vCash: 50
For what it's worth, Alfie wasn't third best on that team. You could argue 2nd at most. I know that it usually doesn't apply, but just look at the +/-. It will help paint the bigger picture, considering all 3 played on the same line.

darglor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.