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Latvian hockey on the rise?

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01-01-2013, 10:41 AM
  #101
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Also I'd like to add, that we are all kinda partially to blame why our league has sunken so much. For example, how many of us even reads articles on SC about our daily league games? I'm not. How many turned their TV's on last spring when LTV7 showed our playoffs? I didn't. Also when we see some players doing greatly in our league, we still dismiss their achievements and still don't wanna see them anywhere near even EHC national team rosters. So on and on, and it catches on, SA journalists (well, Matulis) doesn't write basically anything about our league. Everything is about that damn disease Dinamo in these last years, everything else is a no-no for us.

It's easy to blame LHF or Lipmans personally, but you can't attract money to the league in it's current state, it's a sad fact. I'm not saying LHF couldn't and shouldn't done more in recent years, but it's not like we can abstract ourselves from blame completely.

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01-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrangelife View Post
Without any specific names of the coaches, clubs or the so called evil hockey businessmen - the post seems meaningless , unless someone on this forum knows anything more about it. If the post is the truth, it still might refer just to one club/ coach and not our whole development system.
Indeed, the parent should have called theschool and the coach to blame for this out publicly to gather some awareness, because it basically is robbery of parent money. And the guilty party no doubt will continue to "tax" unsuspecting parents.


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Well, I think, the first thing the parents should do, before sending their kid to a hockey school, is check, whether the coaches are even licensed by the federation. Because the number of licensed coaches in Latvia is very, very small.
Federation should do the first step and simply publish the names of the licensed coaches on their website, it's all that's necessary. (still there's probably plenty of space for corruption in this field as well ) Heck, can anyone truly confirm if Tambijevs have any coaching badges? I know that Znaroks had them, he finished sports institute of Chelyabinsk and it's not hard to see why his teams are doing so well.

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01-01-2013, 11:04 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Federation should do the first step and simply publish the names of the licensed coaches on their website, it's all that's necessary.
It has always been there. http://www.lhf.lv/par_lhf/treneri/23042010-treneri

Still, no info on which category entails what exactly.

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01-01-2013, 11:19 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by GX View Post
It has always been there. http://www.lhf.lv/par_lhf/treneri/23042010-treneri

Still, no info on which category entails what exactly.
My bad, apologies. Still better than nothing.

This kinda shows that argument about us being a small country with a dwindling population, which has peaked after getting all three NT's in Elite tier is a bull****. There are only like ~50 names on that list, surely if we had more ice and coaches we could easily triple our junior player base knowing how much average Latvian feels about hockey.

Just think about it - 50 licensed coaches of any sort in the whole country! Let that sink in!

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01-01-2013, 12:04 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
My bad, apologies. Still better than nothing.

This kinda shows that argument about us being a small country with a dwindling population, which has peaked after getting all three NT's in Elite tier is a bull****. There are only like ~50 names on that list, surely if we had more ice and coaches we could easily triple our junior player base knowing how much average Latvian feels about hockey.

Just think about it - 50 licensed coaches of any sort in the whole country! Let that sink in!
The question is,where to get these quality coaches? It`s not like they grow on trees or something,it takes time.

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01-01-2013, 12:16 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Also I'd like to add, that we are all kinda partially to blame why our league has sunken so much. For example, how many of us even reads articles on SC about our daily league games? I'm not. How many turned their TV's on last spring when LTV7 showed our playoffs? I didn't. Also when we see some players doing greatly in our league, we still dismiss their achievements and still don't wanna see them anywhere near even EHC national team rosters. So on and on, and it catches on, SA journalists (well, Matulis) doesn't write basically anything about our league. Everything is about that damn disease Dinamo in these last years, everything else is a no-no for us.

It's easy to blame LHF or Lipmans personally, but you can't attract money to the league in it's current state, it's a sad fact. I'm not saying LHF couldn't and shouldn't done more in recent years, but it's not like we can abstract ourselves from blame completely.
You call Dinamo disease,you know who the real disease is? Lipmans. If we had someone who actually cared like Ozolins or Irbe in the chair of LHF,situation wouldnt be as critical as it is now.

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01-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
You call Dinamo disease,you know who the real disease is? Lipmans. If we had someone who actually cared like Ozolins or Irbe in the chair of LHF,situation wouldnt be as critical as it is now.
Lipmans certainly is no innocent lamb or anything, but the league we all now would wish to have back was operating in his time, no? For example, it's not like he said to the Samsung:"Stop giving money to us", right? Dinamo took away 99% of our hockey attention, we don't even bother to show up for national team games. Dinamo certainly is a part of the problem.

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01-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #108
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Even with all these troubles and all these uncertainties in the future we STILL have the best quality junior production in YEARS.it just shows how much untapped potential there is.

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01-01-2013, 12:29 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Lipmans certainly is innocent lamb or anything, but the league we all now would wish to have back was operating in his time, no? For example, it's not like he said to the Samsung:"Stop giving money to us", right? Dinamo took away 99% of our hockey attention, we don't even bother to show up for national team games. Dinamo certainly is a part of the problem.
I would like to hear facts and proof of how Dinamo is part of the problem and ruining our hockey,not some vague statements,but actual facts.The buzz there was created with the national team was created just because there was no high quality hockey to watch ALL YEAR.

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01-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Lipmans certainly is no innocent lamb or anything, but the league we all now would wish to have back was operating in his time, no? For example, it's not like he said to the Samsung:"Stop giving money to us", right? Dinamo took away 99% of our hockey attention, we don't even bother to show up for national team games. Dinamo certainly is a part of the problem.
That's irrelevant to Dinamo. The fact that players like Sprukts and M. Redlihs and some others were garbage during our last WC is their own lack of motivation and ONLY they should be blamed not Dinamo.

Dinamo might have distracted fans from our own league, but I don't see how that is relevant to our hockey development. KHL is what offers many of our players a chance to compete at a high professional level. The fact that our own league is garbage is once again irrelevant to Dinamo.

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01-01-2013, 02:23 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Even with all these troubles and all these uncertainties in the future we STILL have the best quality junior production in YEARS.it just shows how much untapped potential there is.
Isn't your so called "quality junior production" partly achieved abroad as well? I doubt it would have benefited Girgensons, for example, if he had stayed in Latvia instead of going to NA.

In my opinion very few quality players recently have been developed solely through Latvian system. I think the only recent example who has is Indrašis.


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01-02-2013, 03:40 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
I would like to hear facts and proof of how Dinamo is part of the problem and ruining our hockey,not some vague statements,but actual facts.The buzz there was created with the national team was created just because there was no high quality hockey to watch ALL YEAR.
I could ask you the same about the crap you are spouting about Dinamo (and KHL/VHL/MHL/MHLB in general) helping our hockey reaching new heights? Where are the proof, man, where is it? About twenty five of our best players gets richer in undoubtly more competative environment and that's it. We like to think that KHL buzz attracts more kids to hockey, but again it's a vague assumption, as you put it, because Dinamo have not built a new rink anywhere where to train those "extra" kids. Unless you prove that before Dinamo our rinks in Riga were empty and now they are working in full capacity then again, we haven't gained sh** from Dinamo.


And for the proof from my side, I already said, we switched our full attention from our league to everything Dinamo, and subsequently did people giving money to our league. That's as solid proof as we I need.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelife View Post
That's irrelevant to Dinamo. The fact that players like Sprukts and M. Redlihs and some others were garbage during our last WC is their own lack of motivation and ONLY they should be blamed not Dinamo.

Dinamo might have distracted fans from our own league, but I don't see how that is relevant to our hockey development. KHL is what offers many of our players a chance to compete at a high professional level. The fact that our own league is garbage is once again irrelevant to Dinamo.
About not showing up, I meant fans (I see, now that there was a misleading sentence from my side). During last Olympic qualification tournament in Riga, I was sitting in an half-empty arena, there hardly is a more important tournament that can take place in Riga right? I fear that it will happen once more soon enough.

And again, as I said, there is a direct correlation between Dinamo taking away fans and our league hitting bottom of the barrel right now. Just for days ago spoke with a player (well a kid) which said that he really longs for the old times, because then kids breaking through had something to look up in every major hockey city, right now they have nothing (bar Liepaja and Riga).

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01-02-2013, 04:17 AM
  #113
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I`m sorry ozo but is it Dinamo`s task to bulid new arenas? Or maybe its the job of LHF and Lipmans who doesnt do **** for our hockey?****ing greedy ******* he can go to hell, unless he gets replaced theres no way things are getting better.

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01-02-2013, 04:19 AM
  #114
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And again ozo i will answer you the question about fans not comming to some NT games(which mostly are exhibition games) People now are used to high quality hockey,in the previous years there was only our mediocre LAC to watch so ofcourse there was alot more interest to NT than now.That interest was created because there was no quality hockey,dont you understand?

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01-02-2013, 04:25 AM
  #115
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And how can you say for example that development system khl-mhl-mhlb is not working? How? Its only 5 years since khl was created and only 3 years since MHL has been created and even less since mhl-b was created,so you excpect quality players pop up suddenly out of nowhere in 5 years time? Lets get back to this conversation in 7-8 years,then we can talk.
Hell actually you know what there is one exapmple of KHL system working- Indrasis,if there was no mhl-khl system he`d playing in BOL or in some ukrainian league and he wouldnt be one of our best young players and among the best snipers in Dinamo(fact that Abols wants to "reeducate" him is a completley different topic)

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01-02-2013, 04:45 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
About not showing up, I meant fans (I see, now that there was a misleading sentence from my side). During last Olympic qualification tournament in Riga, I was sitting in an half-empty arena, there hardly is a more important tournament that can take place in Riga right? I fear that it will happen once more soon enough.

And again, as I said, there is a direct correlation between Dinamo taking away fans and our league hitting bottom of the barrel right now. Just for days ago spoke with a player (well a kid) which said that he really longs for the old times, because then kids breaking through had something to look up in every major hockey city, right now they have nothing (bar Liepaja and Riga).
Your making absurd statements. I remember watching the qualifications at home and yes the arena was half-empty but how do you connect that with Dinamo??? Because of the qualifications DR had no games. At that time Dinamo couldn't distract anyone from anything. I am as shocked as you are, and if I were in Latvia at that time I most likely would have gone to some of the games, but Dinamo is completely irrelevant to this. I think the advertising was very poor right before the qualifications, but you shouldn't blame anyone besides fans themselves. In this case the sad truth is that our fans don't care for qualifications and we should accept it and not blame a league instead.

Fans weren't forced to watch Dinamo, they chose to watch Dinamo - why? - because there, they can watch high quality hockey. I wish we still had a good solid league within Latvia that could co-exist with Dinamo. But I definitely would oppose having just our own league with high number of fans watching it instead of no Dinamo.

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01-02-2013, 04:46 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
I`m sorry ozo but is it Dinamo`s task to bulid new arenas? Or maybe its the job of LHF and Lipmans who doesnt do **** for our hockey?****ing greedy ******* he can go to hell, unless he gets replaced theres no way things are getting better.
You missed my point. I'm saying Dinamo isn't enlarging our talant pool by attracting more kids to hockey, because it's physically impossible without building more rinks.

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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
And again ozo i will answer you the question about fans not comming to some NT games(which mostly are exhibition games) People now are used to high quality hockey,in the previous years there was only our mediocre LAC to watch so ofcourse there was alot more interest to NT than now.That interest was created because there was no quality hockey,dont you understand?
Again you missed the point. Never doubted that KHL is better hockey to watch, still it killed our local league, that's it.

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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
And how can you say for example that development system khl-mhl-mhlb is not working? How? Its only 5 years since khl was created and only 3 years since MHL has been created and even less since mhl-b was created,so you excpect quality players pop up suddenly out of nowhere in 5 years time? Lets get back to this conversation in 7-8 years,then we can talk.
Hell actually you know what there is one exapmple of KHL system working- Indrasis,if there was no mhl-khl system he`d playing in BOL or in some ukrainian league and he would be one of our best young players and among the best snipers in Dinamo
What tangible evidence you'll give me in 7 years? How on earth you'll show me that player become good only because of the MHL? It's impossible, all I see is our MHL D-line being ***** in WJC. Those couple of years in MHL certainly didn't turn Kr. Lipsbergs even in an average defender.

Calling Indrasis a MHL product is biggest stupidity of them all. We are all raving about Kuzmenkovs playing good in the weakest BOL tourney in years when Indrasis did even better in much more respectable Belarus championship even before he ever stepped on MHL ice. He was a pro long time ago before he wasted a couple of years in MHL, dominating from the day one.

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01-02-2013, 04:50 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
You missed my point. I'm saying Dinamo isn't enlarging our talant pool by attracting more kids to hockey, because it's physically impossible without building more rinks.



Again you missed the point. Never doubted that KHL is better hockey to watch, still it killed our local league, that's it.



What tangible evidence you'll give me in 7 years? How on earth you'll show me that player become good only because of the MHL? It's impossible, all I see is our MHL D-line being ***** in WJC. Those couple of years in MHL certainly didn't turn Kr. Lipsbergs even in an average defender.

Calling Indrasis a MHL product is biggest stupidity of them all. We are all raving about Kuzmenkovs playing good in the weakest BOL tourney in years when Indrasis did even better in much more respectable Belarus championship even before he ever stepped on MHL ice. He was a pro long time ago before he wasted a couple of years in MHL, dominating from the day one.
The players NOW ofcourse wont be better just because of MHL,but it will help young guys who are 12-13 years old NOW when they grow up they can play in high quality junior hockey,its you who misses the point

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01-02-2013, 04:52 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by DrStrangelife View Post
Your making absurd statements. I remember watching the qualifications at home and yes the arena was half-empty but how do you connect that with Dinamo??? Because of the qualifications DR had no games. At that time Dinamo couldn't distract anyone from anything. I am as shocked as you are, and if I were in Latvia at that time I most likely would have gone to some of the games, but Dinamo is completely irrelevant to this. I think the advertising was very poor right before the qualifications, but you shouldn't blame anyone besides fans themselves. In this case the sad truth is that our fans don't care for qualifications and we should accept it and not blame a league instead.

Fans weren't forced to watch Dinamo, they chose to watch Dinamo - why? - because there, they can watch high quality hockey. I wish we still had a good solid league within Latvia that could co-exist with Dinamo. But I definitely would oppose having just our own league with high number of fans watching it instead of no Dinamo.
But I agree totally, how do you both, manage to miss this one. As I said couple posts before, we all (fans of hockey) are somewhat responsible for destroying the reputation of our league for the sake of Dinamo.

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01-02-2013, 04:57 AM
  #120
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Dont you get it ozo our most talented youth is only GROWING UP right now,thats why we need MHL. Kr lipsbergs will probably never amount to anything other than maybe a 7 th defender on some BOL team.

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01-02-2013, 05:25 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Dont you get it ozo our most talented youth is only GROWING UP right now,thats why we need MHL. Kr lipsbergs will probably never amount to anything other than maybe a 7 th defender on some BOL team.
So you are trying to say that future of our hockey are in hands of people who work with pre-MHL kids thus have no connection with this KHL pyramid? What a shocker.

You are right - no average player will be made into anything decent at the age of 17-19 by MHL. And that's why, when in seven years we'll win the WJC, you'll have absolutely no right to claim that it's an achievement made by MHL or KHL pyramid. We don't need MHL, it certainly doesn't hurt, but it's no saviour like you or especially SC audience thinks.

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01-02-2013, 05:54 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
So you are trying to say that future of our hockey are in hands of people who work with pre-MHL kids thus have no connection with this KHL pyramid? What a shocker.

You are right - no average player will be made into anything decent at the age of 17-19 by MHL. And that's why, when in seven years we'll win the WJC, you'll have absolutely no right to claim that it's an achievement made by MHL or KHL pyramid. We don't need MHL, it certainly doesn't hurt, but it's no saviour like you or especially SC audience thinks.
Ugh dont you get it? when MHL team gets lets say a talented 16 year old,its still a RAW talent,MHL makes this talent by the age of 18 a ready player to play in VHL/KHL/NHL whatever.In the time of LAC there were probably alot of good prospects not amounting to anything just because they lacked quality competition.

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01-02-2013, 06:04 AM
  #123
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Anyway i hope in the comming years as economic situation gets better we will see atleast a few new rinks built and buliding rinks is responsibility of LHF and LHF only.

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01-02-2013, 06:34 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
In the time of LAC there were probably alot of good prospects not amounting to anything just because they lacked quality competition.
That's simply a wild speculation, which junior player outgrew LAČ and then ended career because of the lack of opportunities. Go and find one! I can easily build a case that playing against pro's at the age of 18 turned Indrašis into what he is today.

Strong Latvian league can easily substitute MHL and turn into something like VHL itself and if some player outgrows the league, then he can join Dinamo in the K. The time saved from not flying around Europe to play Poprads, Chisinau's and Voskresensks could be better used for training.

Anyway, we have moved really far away from the bottom line which is that a really decent (let's say as strong as Swiss NLB or Belarus from couple of years ago) local league is still possible. So that our most dominant forwards like Homjakovs, Golovkovs, Lipsbergs can taste some pro hockey early just like Swiss kids do, which schooled our team just a week ago. Also chance to play in fron of local town could persuade Egle's and Girgensons' of our hockey to stay in country for longer, so our U18 league doesn't get weaker year by year. Currently it's a pipe dream, LHF does nothing and I'm not even sure what can be done. Do Lipmans have the stones to forbid all our teams (maybe except Dinamo) to play abroad and somehow find those missing sponsors and revive hockey in Ogre, D-Pils? Build new rinks in Jurmala, Rezekne, **** anywhere.

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03-01-2013, 09:28 AM
  #125
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Kaspers Daugavins seem to be more regular now in Ottawa 4'th line and got his second assist of the season in Ottawa's 1-2 OT defeat to Boston.

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