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Who do the Oilers buyout? (If anyone)

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Old
12-31-2012, 05:41 AM
  #51
oilinblood
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Horcoff has a NMC still, i am pretty sure.

With the long lay off it will be interesting to see which vets in the league fall on their face and embarass themselves, who worked out too much and might be sluggish or have less range of motion, and also who didnt do enough training.

If you get a chance to move Horcoff this season i say do it but im not holding my breath that anyone would want him. There will be alot of players available in summer and on the block this deadline, should there be a season.

I dont think Whitney gets re-signed. Smid? yes. Nick Schultz is fine with Smid as our two top LHDs. Focus on having a top 4... add another strong RHD to go with Justin Schultz (Boychuks contractual NMC changes on January 8th-it then changes again at the deadline and july 1st... continually expanding a list of teams he would be willing to be traded to... with Boston likely still interested in sending him out should they manage to get Yandle).

I dont think anyone will deal for horcoff. He isnt even worth the "partial" salary he will be getting.

I am a Horcoff defender of many years but if the cap is dropping by this gargantuan amount...he has to go. He is not worth a 10% cap hit; not in a dry market and certainly not in the buyers market to come.

I think the league should cut the rosters from 23 to 21, 12 f-6d-2g-1xtra.

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12-31-2012, 06:24 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
Came to say this. Unless they need the money for a new player, or they have a better 3C that's worth said players salary plus Horcoff's buyout, what's the point?
Assuming a $60M cap, then the answer would be cap flexibility.

A cap at $60M completely changes the FA market for probably a couple of years. Most of the usual big players would be looking to shed rather than add. A team like Edmonton might be an attractive option for a guy like Clowe for example.

Trades also become more of an an option. If you have the room to take on a significant salary you may get lucky. That is basically what Vancouver did to get Edler.

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12-31-2012, 11:00 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Lowe in Oil View Post
We're at $48M cap hit for next season including Horcoff
Add Klefbom and Paajarvii $50.8M

And we need to sign backup G 1.5M
Smid 2.5M
Sam gagner (or 2C) 3M
Hartikainen 1.5M
Ryan Jones (or his replacement) 1.5M
Whitney 2.5M


Hopefully the NHLPA can get that 60M up to 62-63M and then we can keep Horcoff, but most likely, they would have to buy him out.
Smid isn't signing for 2.5.. I'd guess closer to 4 like similar shutdown D make (Mitchell, Volchenkov).

If jones scores lose to 20 goals I doubt he will sign for 1.5.

Regardless of injury risks, there is no way Whitney re-signs for 2.5.. Nobody makes that kind of money anymore. Easily 4+ on potential alone.

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12-31-2012, 11:12 AM
  #54
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Taking a look at the cap the team will have to use you have to take a look at what it will be when players like RNH and Yak are due to get a raise. You have to have room for them. If Yak is a 40 goal scorer then he will want the 6mil if he is only a 25 goal scorer then we pay he accordingly. RNH is already proven in my mind and will get 6mil contract. If Yak has a really good year I would look at moving him as there is no way we can afford 4 all star fwds on the team. If Schultz is as advertised he will be getting 6mil as well.

HOrc is the obvious choice to buyout though as no one else makes a big ticket that makes sense to buyout.

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12-31-2012, 05:55 PM
  #55
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Horcoff needs to be bought out. if we can resign him for less $ then great as he is usefull to our team currently

Smid really didnt want to be traded and with the oilers future looking better than ever i'm sure he will sign something reasonable if he can get a long term and ntc, 3.5mil is my guess (leaves the oil room to keep all the kids)

Ryan Jones deserves a raise has been a very good player for us.

i see Whitney signing a 1-2 year deal at 4 mil to show he can return to form

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12-31-2012, 06:07 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
If the cap does go to $60M for next year I think they will give serious thought to buying out Horcoff. I don't think that they would be in any hurry to do so, but I think the cap flexibility could have significant value.
I think if the cap does roll back, then it will probably be linked to an overall salary rollback is well, so its all speculation at this point.

But Horcoff does make the most sense to buy out. He's just not worth anywhere near to what his contract is.

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12-31-2012, 06:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by OilFury View Post
Horcoff needs to be bought out. if we can resign him for less $ then great as he is usefull to our team currently

Smid really didnt want to be traded and with the oilers future looking better than ever i'm sure he will sign something reasonable if he can get a long term and ntc, 3.5mil is my guess (leaves the oil room to keep all the kids)

Ryan Jones deserves a raise has been a very good player for us.

i see Whitney signing a 1-2 year deal at 4 mil to show he can return to form
Ryan Jones deserves an extension at his current salary, not a raise. Or at least not a significant one.

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12-31-2012, 08:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I think if the cap does roll back, then it will probably be linked to an overall salary rollback is well, so its all speculation at this point.

But Horcoff does make the most sense to buy out. He's just not worth anywhere near to what his contract is.
Buying out Horcoff only makes sense if there is an amnesty clause in the new CBA. If not, one has to take into considerations the costs. The old rules would keep Oilers on the hook for 2.666M in 2013/14; 3.666M in 2014/15, and 1.666M in each of the next 2 seasons).
Factoring in the cost of the replacement during the first 2 seasons (let's say a solid 3C would cost 2.5-3M per), they might be better off hanging on to Horcoff for at least 1 more year.

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12-31-2012, 08:46 PM
  #59
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Buy out Horcoff, no question. Not only is he making way too much money, he's just not that good at anything. He's not as good at faceoffs as he used to be, not that good on the PK, has no offense whatsoever. He's basically useless and getting paid like a superstar.

I don't even care if we're lacking a bottom 6 center. Sign some guy that can crash and bang and move Belanger up to the 3rd line, problem solved.

The days of having guys like Moreau and Horcoff as our team leaders are over, it's time to turn the page on this guy. Give Smyth the C, as we should have done years ago. Give A's to Hall and Eberle until one of them emerges as our captain. Smyth and Hemsky are the only Oilers vets that deserve to stay in my opinion.

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12-31-2012, 09:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Assuming a $60M cap, then the answer would be cap flexibility.

A cap at $60M completely changes the FA market for probably a couple of years. Most of the usual big players would be looking to shed rather than add. A team like Edmonton might be an attractive option for a guy like Clowe for example.

Trades also become more of an an option. If you have the room to take on a significant salary you may get lucky. That is basically what Vancouver did to get Edler.
I said other than needing money for a new player

I think if the Oilers had the poopetunity to get a Clowe or an Edler he'd be bought out immediately before

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12-31-2012, 10:38 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Buying out Horcoff only makes sense if there is an amnesty clause in the new CBA. If not, one has to take into considerations the costs. The old rules would keep Oilers on the hook for 2.666M in 2013/14; 3.666M in 2014/15, and 1.666M in each of the next 2 seasons).
Factoring in the cost of the replacement during the first 2 seasons (let's say a solid 3C would cost 2.5-3M per), they might be better off hanging on to Horcoff for at least 1 more year.
There is one in current offer that's the point of this thread. And yes it's Horcoff actually I don't even think there's a choice if your working with a 60 mil cap.

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12-31-2012, 11:34 PM
  #62
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I think they might want to consider Hartikainen as a C as well. He's played at that position as a junior.

Really, this year is a bit of a wash and cap wise next year is pretty easy to sort out.

Klefbom replaces Whitney - about 3.75M in savings
Resign Smid - 4M - long term - 1.75M increase in cap hit
Hartikainen (or alternative) as 3rd line centre - 1.5M - 4M in cap savings
Maybe Lander becomes the 3rd line centre he's been hyped to become in 2014/2015?
Then you hope that Musil, Marincin, Gernat, Tuebert of Davidson is able to become a no.6/7 in 3 or so years.

These moves save 6M in cap space - additional savings could come from losing Hemsky in 2014 (or resigning him at a lower rate).

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky
Smyth-Hartikainen-Paajarvi/Jones
Eager-Belanger-Petrell/Jones

Petry-Smid
J.Schultz-UFA no.3/4
Klefbom-N.Schultz
Peckham

Dubnyk
Backup (could be Bunz or Roy - if not, then a 1.5M UFA)

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01-01-2013, 12:18 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
I said other than needing money for a new player

I think if the Oilers had the poopetunity to get a Clowe or an Edler he'd be bought out immediately before
Best typo since "This Is Out House"

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01-01-2013, 01:40 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
I think they might want to consider Hartikainen as a C as well. He's played at that position as a junior.

Really, this year is a bit of a wash and cap wise next year is pretty easy to sort out.

Klefbom replaces Whitney - about 3.75M in savings
Resign Smid - 4M - long term - 1.75M increase in cap hit
Hartikainen (or alternative) as 3rd line centre - 1.5M - 4M in cap savings
Maybe Lander becomes the 3rd line centre he's been hyped to become in 2014/2015?
Then you hope that Musil, Marincin, Gernat, Tuebert of Davidson is able to become a no.6/7 in 3 or so years.

These moves save 6M in cap space - additional savings could come from losing Hemsky in 2014 (or resigning him at a lower rate).

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky
Smyth-Hartikainen-Paajarvi/Jones
Eager-Belanger-Petrell/Jones

Petry-Smid
J.Schultz-UFA no.3/4
Klefbom-N.Schultz
Peckham

Dubnyk
Backup (could be Bunz or Roy - if not, then a 1.5M UFA)
Hartikainen doesn't play center and Klefbom's cap hit would be more than $250K. You also don't seem to be accounting for this mystery 2nd pairing defenseman you're including. I don't think we're in any cap trouble (even with Horcoff), but you should probably put a little more thought in your plan IMO.

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01-01-2013, 02:03 AM
  #65
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Brodziak and Glencross were what we needed ... but what did we get for those guys? Nada.
Not 100% true, we picked up Olivier Roy and Kyle Bigos for Brodziak. Bigos looks like a project, and the jury is still out on Roy if he will cut it as a goalie.

Not a good trade (hated it then, hate it more today), but we did get something.

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01-01-2013, 02:30 AM
  #66
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IMO horcoff should be bought out, move Belanger to third line C, Lander 4th line C. resign whitney to a 1 year deal as i would like Klefbom to spend 1 year in AHL before NHL.

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01-01-2013, 03:10 AM
  #67
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Not 100% true, we picked up Olivier Roy and Kyle Bigos for Brodziak. Bigos looks like a project, and the jury is still out on Roy if he will cut it as a goalie.

Not a good trade (hated it then, hate it more today), but we did get something.
Here's a question. If Roy turns out to be our savior, how will people view that trade?

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01-01-2013, 07:27 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I think if the cap does roll back, then it will probably be linked to an overall salary rollback is well, so its all speculation at this point.

But Horcoff does make the most sense to buy out. He's just not worth anywhere near to what his contract is.
At this point it seems very unlikely that there would be a roll back on actual existing salaries. It is not something the NHLPA would accept and the NHL is not asking for it.

If there is a deal it is possible that there could be some movement on the $60M number but it does not look like there would be much as it seems to be an importat point for the owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Buying out Horcoff only makes sense if there is an amnesty clause in the new CBA. If not, one has to take into considerations the costs. The old rules would keep Oilers on the hook for 2.666M in 2013/14; 3.666M in 2014/15, and 1.666M in each of the next 2 seasons).
Factoring in the cost of the replacement during the first 2 seasons (let's say a solid 3C would cost 2.5-3M per), they might be better off hanging on to Horcoff for at least 1 more year.
I think thi is the premiss of the thread. The NHL's proposal asks for 1 compliance buyout that does not count aganst the cap. The PA dpoe not have an issue with this outside of whether or not buyouts count in the players share of HRR.

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01-01-2013, 07:33 AM
  #69
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I said other than needing money for a new player

I think if the Oilers had the poopetunity to get a Clowe or an Edler he'd be bought out immediately before
It's not just about the start of next year though. The flexibilty could be useful going into 2014-2015. However, they would not have the opportunity to save his full cap unless they did the buyout during the amnesty period.

I think this is only an issue with a cap near $60M to start with. At $65M the Oilers probably don't buyout Horcoff even if there is no amnesty.

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01-01-2013, 09:00 AM
  #70
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Hartikainen doesn't play center and Klefbom's cap hit would be more than $250K. You also don't seem to be accounting for this mystery 2nd pairing defenseman you're including. I don't think we're in any cap trouble (even with Horcoff), but you should probably put a little more thought in your plan IMO.
You got me (somewhat).

Ok, we save 2.75M for with Klefbom over Whitney.

My post was actually suggesting that the Oilers TRY Hartikainen at C.

He has played the position before (and they should have tried him there in the AHL given out long term need for a solid no.3 C).

I digress, the point of my post is basically that a Horcoff buy out makes sense. Save the cap space and take a major run in 2014-2015, with RNH and J. Schultz still on entry level and again in 2015-2016 with Yakupov still on his entry level deal.

If they can save 3ish million in cap space (assuming 5.5M comes off and 2.5M is added in the form of a 3rd liner) in each of those seasons with a Horcoff buy-out, it makes a lot of sense.

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01-01-2013, 10:26 AM
  #71
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Horcoff should be bought out for the sole reason that he's making big bucks while playing like crap. He's a big talker in the locker room but he's lead this team into the abyss. I'm sure Tambi can easily find a decent 3rd/4th line centerman that's reliable in the defensive zone as well as on faceoffs. It won't be a big loss for the team as some are suggesting.

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01-01-2013, 11:15 AM
  #72
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[QUOTE=Lay Z Boy GM;56977055]Buy out Horcoff, no question. Not only is he making way too much money, he's just not that good at anything. He's not as good at faceoffs as he used to be, not that good on the PK, has no offense whatsoever. He's basically useless and getting paid like a superstar.

I don't even care if we're lacking a bottom 6 center. Sign some guy that can crash and bang and move Belanger up to the 3rd line, problem solved.

The days of having guys like Moreau and Horcoff as our team leaders are over, it's time to turn the page on this guy. Give Smyth the C, as we should have done years ago. Give A's to Hall and Eberle until one of them emerges as our captain. Smyth and Hemsky are the only Oilers vets that deserve to stay in my opinion [QUOTE]

Smyth would make a great captain. On the otherhand, I would trade Belanger away as fast as i could; just doesn't bring enough. Tambs traded away Brodziak because they wanted 'a more in your face' player , one who could help Horcoff shoulder the load on faceoffs - What did they get, even less grit, and even less scoring

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01-01-2013, 12:01 PM
  #73
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Smyth would make a great captain. On the otherhand, I would trade Belanger away as fast as i could; just doesn't bring enough. Tambs traded away Brodziak because they wanted 'a more in your face' player , one who could help Horcoff shoulder the load on faceoffs - What did they get, even less grit, and even less scoring
Smyth would be about the worst possible choice I could think of as captain - other than Horcoff.

What would he say? Obviously...uhhhhhh...boys...uhhh...obviously... one game at a time...uhhhh...110%...obviously..."

Despite having been the poster boy for effort and giving it your all in the past, Smyth's best days are behind him. And Smyth's best days are nowhere near what we will see from Hall, Eberle and RNH. In fact Eberle has already bested Smyth's best season ever, and I only see more of the same in the future for all 3.

We need to hand the reins over to the kids. Lots of people like to say that they are too young or whatever, but that's a crock IMO.

The Red Wings handed the C to Yzerman when he was 21 and he proceeded to lead the Wings out of the cellar and help turn them into the most dominant team since the 80s Oilers. The Lightning made Lecavalier captain at 19. They won the Cup 4 years later. The Pens made Crosby captain at 19, he led them to the finals his first year as captain, and then won it all his second year. The Hawks made Toews captain when he was 20. He led the Blackhawks to the playoffs for the first time since 01-02, Hawks won their first playoff series in a dozen years, losing in the semis to the Wings, and then following that up the next year by winning it all.

The Avs have just made Landeskog their captain - the youngest in history. Might prove to be a mistake, but personally, I like the move, and I really hope that we follow suit be slapping the C on Hall's chest.

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01-01-2013, 12:06 PM
  #74
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There is no chance the oilers will buy out Horcoff. Zero. the love the guy, the owner loves the guy, they would 'llok bad' buying out their captain.

I'd be willing to bet $100 to a charity that if given the chance the oilers do not buy him out.

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01-01-2013, 01:43 PM
  #75
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There is no chance the oilers will buy out Horcoff. Zero. the love the guy, the owner loves the guy, they would 'llok bad' buying out their captain.

I'd be willing to bet $100 to a charity that if given the chance the oilers do not buy him out.
That's my guess as well. If there is anything this management has shown me is they don't like to admit when they are wrong and the beat around the bush about bad decisions indefinitely.

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