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Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

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Old
01-01-2013, 10:00 AM
  #176
InterceptSchenn
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Luongo will save Burke's job. As of right now, Burke has been a massive failure. Came in November 2008 and said "We require, as a team, proper levels of pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence. That’s how our teams play". Well, 4 years later the team sucks and is full of softies. If Burke shut his yap and didn't produce I would be not okay with it, but understand it better. But the man speaks to the media abut his plans, what he wants, acts like everything is easy but never delivers. For example he said 2 years ago, "I could have traded Luke Schenn and made the playoffs". yeah, BS. Many more examples that I am sure have been mentioned here countless times. Enough is enough with BB. Put up or shut up.

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01-01-2013, 10:07 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
No GM in Toronto, where the pressure is huge and the franchise is worth a billion will be hired to finish 30th. Get that fantasy out of your heads.
they're hired to win the stanley cup.

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01-01-2013, 10:18 AM
  #178
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no, Burke hasn't done enough to warrant another contract, he's done a good job rebuilding the Marlies, but that's more Nonis's job.

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01-01-2013, 10:20 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by InterceptSchenn View Post
Luongo will save Burke's job. As of right now, Burke has been a massive failure. Came in November 2008 and said "We require, as a team, proper levels of pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence. That’s how our teams play". Well, 4 years later the team sucks and is full of softies. If Burke shut his yap and didn't produce I would be not okay with it, but understand it better. But the man speaks to the media abut his plans, what he wants, acts like everything is easy but never delivers. For example he said 2 years ago, "I could have traded Luke Schenn and made the playoffs". yeah, BS. Many more examples that I am sure have been mentioned here countless times. Enough is enough with BB. Put up or shut up.
I'll never understand why you guys get wrapped up in words.

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01-01-2013, 10:21 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I'll never understand why you guys get wrapped up in words.
Burke is always full of crap. Take nothing with his words.

If we took him at his word he'd still be the Ducks GM.

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01-01-2013, 10:22 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
they're hired to win the stanley cup.
And you're so sure making the team the worst is the way to do that?

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01-01-2013, 11:04 AM
  #182
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No he absolutely should not be extended.

He has done a lot of damage to his reputation with his big mouth saying one thing and the exact opposite happening.

The only good thing he has done is luck out with contract dumps turning out well (Phaneuf & especially Lupul) but that has in turn handcuffed him at times. Meanwhile he missed out on some top talent by refusing to go long term like every other team in the league and making terrible signings like Connolly and Komi.

In any case, the team is objectively no better than it was when he took over.

Here is hoping that Burke contradicts himself once again and takes on Luongo's crazy contract.. or that Morgan Reilly is the next Brian Leetch because if not, it is going to be a lot of lean years to come.

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01-01-2013, 12:03 PM
  #183
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Burke is always full of crap. Take nothing with his words.

If we took him at his word he'd still be the Ducks GM.
There's really two parts to that equation. One is that some things have to be said and should be taken for what they are worth (e.g. statements that avoid throwing people under buses or that protect values). The second is a lot of times people are just putting words into his mouth (i.e. he says something and they elaborate meaning into it and hold him responsible for that which they thought as opposed to that which he said). I might even add a third, which are cases where obvious statements that apply to every team in the league are made and people take those as promises (see being interested in 1st overall every year or that the playoffs is the goal).

I don't know...it baffles me how much people here cling to words. Gives the impression of people curled up in the fetal position, rocking back and forth and muttering over and over again whichever snippet they've decided to cling to.

I can understand being fixated on results at least. Being fixated on words just seems patently silly (or as though people have lived their entire lives in a bubble).

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01-01-2013, 12:18 PM
  #184
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Look I cant argue with the actual facts like standings and such.

you're right ,we're crap in that regard. In fairness we would've been crap no matter WHAT GM we had probably for about 3 years or so.

and to be honest I thought last year was the year we'd make the playoffs(really looking back, we were a playoff team or very close to one up until february).

I think he's failed on getting a #1 C for sure, and moreso failed on getting a better goalie, I think his one huge downfall is his reliance on inexperienced goalies, same thing plagued him in Vancouver(but I think he's somewhat realized this this year)

I would personally give him one more FULL season to prove himself, that's all, as I dont think bringing in a new GM will do much in the short term(really what can we do? we arent bad enough to be bottom 5 for the next 2 years IMO) bringing in a new coach was much more necessary.

I was fine with not making the playoffs from 08-2011, but last year was unexceptable. Give him one last year to prove where this team should be heading, then I'll judge him fully, as he's had 4 solid years to build this team(and IMO it does look solid on paper minus goaltending.)

Another year of this and the excuses will run out dont worry, I think many people put up excuses for him because they want to believe we can be better, and I do think we can, but will we actually show it in the standings soon? I hope so.


I really dislike Burke, but he signed a 6 year contract and he said it wouldn't take 5.

So certainly, he has until the end of his contract for the team to be a playoffs calibre team.

His 6 year 3 million per year contract is up in 2014, so why would anyone worry about extending him right now?

A GM isn't like a coach, in that the last year of a contract is considered lame duck. He has all his power and he isn't on the ice.

I accept that you can make mistakes when you make decisions, and yes Burke has made mistakes and admitted them. That doesn't forgive him his mistakes this isn't the church where you can undo bad decisions, in the NHL you are responsible for them.

IMO, I think hanging on to Ron Wilson was a huge mistake. Many wanted him gone a couple years ago, but again Burke said he'd deal the entire team before firing the coach. So he put his personal selfishness above the good of the franchise. He told the players the coach was not to be held accountable only the players would receive blame.

Obviously, the trade is the trade, and he had said in the worst case scenario what the cost would be but they gambled on the worst case, and lost. That doesn't mean they didn't get a very good player, it just means they gambled and lost. You know when you roll the dice there is a chance you'll lose, no matter how good the odds. Burke almost said while the dice were still tumbling, OMG look at our goaltending!!! I completely understand Burke must support that decision today, he's holding the welfare of the player in his hands. I have no concerns that he says he'd do it again, he has to say that. Anyone who doesn't understand that isn't looking at the human aspect to that deal.

Adding pieces via the draft is something even posters on this site could have done, so we shouldn't spend a great effort applauding a minimum result. Every team in the league gets draft picks for free. Every team in the league no matter how pathetic a management group they have can draft 7 players per year from any number of scouting reports. Heck, every team could just select based on McKenzie's rankings without spending any money on scouting and come up with some good players.

After the draft is when it important for the management group to work their magic. What you do with those draft players is where you need the best assets involved. So the question might be is Eakins the right guy? No Eakins cannot make players more talented, but can he bring out the best talent in those players?

College and European free agents is one area Burke has spent money. He hasn't done a great job there, but I like Bozak, and think he is a win. He gets too much trashing here, but even Sundin got trashed here, so you have to consider the audience. The jury is still out on some other free agents, and has returned guilty verdicts on some who have already been flushed.

He has made some good deals as well. Phaneuf, Ashton is a good deal, Lupul and Gardiner his home run. Biggs might be a good deal.

So let's give Burke his 6 years, and consider that is 2 years more than he said it would take. I know people like to forgive him for his loose lips but let's hold him to what he says, but understand he gets excited and so sometimes he just overrates his abilities like many others can do.

We should hold him accountable, but give him the 6 years he signed for, and then if he's succeeded in moving the team into the entry level of being a contender with a great future give him an extension.

We should be comparing Burke to the best GM's in the game, MLSE didn't sign him to be just another GM.

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Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.

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01-01-2013, 12:27 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
There's really two parts to that equation. One is that some things have to be said and should be taken for what they are worth (e.g. statements that avoid throwing people under buses or that protect values). The second is a lot of times people are just putting words into his mouth (i.e. he says something and they elaborate meaning into it and hold him responsible for that which they thought as opposed to that which he said). I might even add a third, which are cases where obvious statements that apply to every team in the league are made and people take those as promises (see being interested in 1st overall every year or that the playoffs is the goal).

I don't know...it baffles me how much people here cling to words. Gives the impression of people curled up in the fetal position, rocking back and forth and muttering over and over again whichever snippet they've decided to cling to.

I can understand being fixated on results at least. Being fixated on words just seems patently silly (or as though people have lived their entire lives in a bubble).
It's sad that you're OK with being lied to.

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01-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #186
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It's sad that you're OK with being lied to.
It's sad that people can't read.

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01-01-2013, 01:23 PM
  #187
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
It's sad that you're OK with being lied to.
Pretty sure eyeball1 has never talked to Burke, let alone had Burke lie to him.

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01-01-2013, 01:37 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
It's sad that you're OK with being lied to.
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
It's sad that people can't read.
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Pretty sure eyeball1 has never talked to Burke, let alone had Burke lie to him.
It's like advertising.

You don't really believe everything is new and improved.

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01-01-2013, 01:40 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I don't think people understand how hard it is to finish 30th and then stay 1st overall in the draft lottery.

This Leafs team with terrible coaching and goaltending was in a playoff spot the majority of the year. They're not in the same league as a Columbus.

The team is too good to get first overall. The only way they can is if the season is cancelled and they get lucky in the next lottery draft.

No GM in Toronto, where the pressure is huge and the franchise is worth a billion will be hired to finish 30th. Get that fantasy out of your heads.
we've tried for 40 years to do something other then draft and develop our own team and has failed I think it's time for a differents of opinion.

however you don't need to finish in last and win the lottery to get great prospects.

alot of great prospects get picked just outside of 1st overall like Rielly, Galchenyuk, Murray, Schiefele, Strome, Huberdeau, Landeskog, Larsson, Couturier, Seguin, Johansson, Skinner, Duchene, Kane, OEL.

some of those will bust no doubt as there's no gaurentee like alot of people like to point out but alot of those probably will be qualty NHL players.

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01-01-2013, 01:49 PM
  #190
eyeball11
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we've tried for 40 years to do something other then draft and develop our own team and has failed I think it's time for a differents of opinion.

however you don't need to finish in last and win the lottery to get great prospects.

alot of great prospects get picked just outside of 1st overall like Rielly, Galchenyuk, Murray, Schiefele, Strome, Huberdeau, Landeskog, Larsson, Couturier, Seguin, Johansson, Skinner, Duchene, Kane, OEL.

some of those will bust no doubt as there's no gaurentee like alot of people like to point out but alot of those probably will be qualty NHL players.
All true. So perhaps it makes sense to be patient and allow Burke's picks and young players the same time to develop that it takes everyone else's prospects? Rather than focusing on being in the lottery, let's focus on making every pick count no matter where it is and let's give them ample time to develop.

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01-01-2013, 02:04 PM
  #191
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So after four bottom 10 finishes, our prospects are ranked lower in a list created by professional nhl scouts.
We don't score more goals. We don't prevent more goals. We win less games.

What would have to happen for you to stop supporting Burke?
Because the facts listed above are a flat out atrocity. It's rock bottom. Yet you still support him.

It almost seems like I'm just joking, doesn't it? Pointing out those facts? They sound like a flat out lie. "After four years, don't score more goals. Don't prevent more goals. Win less games. Lower ranked prospects by professional nhl scouts".
It's almost stranger than fiction.
It's as bad as the realms of imagination could come up with. The most creative minds in human history wouldn't even be able to make up such failure.
Yet, it all really happened.
Those facts ARE the truth.

And the kicker? The thing that makes this the most puzzling of all? It's not the stranger than fiction outline of utter futility... it's the fact that some fans still support him. That's the part that makes me embarrassed to even be a part of the human race.
If people can be that blinded by their biases, it makes me scared for the human race and civilization as a whole. We're a petty petty species utterly unable to accept logic, rationality, and reason.
"I 'like' Burke, so he done good"
It's called a rebuild. It's like you expected all the other teams in the league to stop developing while Toronto got it's **** together. Hello, it doesn't work like that.


So it's failure to have a #1 D-man? Acquired via trade.
So it's failure to have a #2 D-man? AcQuired via trade.
So it's failure to have one of the top 5 most consistant goalscorers in the league? Acquired via trade.
So it's failure to have 2 PPG forwards? Acquired via trade.

Ya he sure has this team headed in the wrong direction. JEsus open your friggin eyes.

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01-01-2013, 02:13 PM
  #192
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if having a #1 "franchise" centre is crucial to the team's success, doesn't burke absolutely have to find a way to get one? shouldn't have have found a way by now?

is it acceptable for him not to find a way to land a top centre, while the team continues to lose?
Again, how exactly is it his fault that teams aren't going to just give them away? As important as it is to have one, it wouldn't be useful if they gave up everything for that 1 player.

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01-01-2013, 02:20 PM
  #193
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I really dislike Burke, but he signed a 6 year contract and he said it wouldn't take 5.
MEanwhile almost everyone else was saying 7 years min.

So I guess he was wrong.

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We should hold him accountable, but give him the 6 years he signed for, and then if he's succeeded in moving the team into the entry level of being a contender with a great future give him an extension.
So acquiring Phaneuf, Kessel, Gardiner, Lupul, Colborne, Ashton, JVR, #22 & #25 2011, is not a step forward. That is 9 1st or former 1st round picks he has acquired in the 3.5 years he has had to work with. That doesn't include Sjostrom, Komisarek, Connolly or Kadri and Rielly.

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We should be comparing Burke to the best GM's in the game, MLSE didn't sign him to be just another GM.
[/QUOTE]

Well Ken Holland(isn't he the best?) says it takes 10yrs to see results so why not sit back, quit *****ing, and let the man do his job for at least a few more years.

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01-01-2013, 02:31 PM
  #194
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I feel like a member of a patient minority of fans who considers Burke to be the best thing that's happened to the Leafs in a long, long time. In my opinion, Burke was handed the sorriest excuse for an NHL team that I can remember, and it is only by the grace of God that he managed to turn what he inherited into what we have now. I say give him his time, give him an extension, let the man stay and build the team he wants to build. It's going to take time. Everyone with a grain of sense should have known that it would be more than five years to turn that ship around.

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01-01-2013, 02:40 PM
  #195
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I feel like a member of a patient minority of fans who considers Burke to be the best thing that's happened to the Leafs in a long, long time. In my opinion, Burke was handed the sorriest excuse for an NHL team that I can remember, and it is only by the grace of God that he managed to turn what he inherited into what we have now. I say give him his time, give him an extension, let the man stay and build the team he wants to build. It's going to take time. Everyone with a grain of sense should have known that it would be more than five years to turn that ship around.
I agree.

I wouldn't consider us a minority though, we just aren't as loud as the others.

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01-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #196
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Actually, Burke was waiting for the call back from Holmgren if I remember correctly, never got the call back.
Either way Burke never got to say yes he would make the trade or he would not.

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01-01-2013, 02:54 PM
  #197
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Well Ken Holland(isn't he the best?) says it takes 10yrs to see results so why not sit back, quit *****ing, and let the man do his job for at least a few more years.
Yes, I really lament the fact JFj was not given the same time as Burke. He's 12 years younger, so he could have stayed with the franchise a decade longer.

For all the time Burke has been a GM he's only won 1 Cup, same as Feaster. Would everyone give Feaster 10 years here with the same results?

Don't listen to what he says, evaluate what he does.


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01-01-2013, 02:56 PM
  #198
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And you're so sure making the team the worst is the way to do that?
no, the opposite. the job is the make the team the best.

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01-01-2013, 02:57 PM
  #199
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Yes, I really lament the fact JFj was not given the same time as Burke. He's 12 years younger, so he could have stayed with the frachise a decade longer.
JFJ was a puppet. Burke has the credentials and the balls to tell ownership to take a hike.
Big difference.

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01-01-2013, 03:03 PM
  #200
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Again, how exactly is it his fault that teams aren't going to just give them away? As important as it is to have one, it wouldn't be useful if they gave up everything for that 1 player.
so, if we're going on the assumption that a #1 centre is crucial to the team's success....

it is acceptable if burke cannot find a way to get one, and the team continues its losing ways?

that's not his fault? we just shrug, say, "oh well, good try", and continue to lose under brian burke?

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