HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Nikolai Kulemin?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-01-2013, 12:18 PM
  #101
The Podium
Formerly chrisx101
 
The Podium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,349
vCash: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus74 View Post
Wow... I would think that most Leaf fans would trade Kulie for Sutter in a heartbeat...
At this point the only thing that separates them is that ones a C and 3 years. Based on all but 2 seasons ago, both are ~30 point players with elite defence. However, Kulemin has out scored sutter in almost every year that they have played, including the last, and has proven capable of being a 30 goal scorer (even if it was an anomaly). There is no reason why preferring Kulemin should be so surprising, they have essentially the same trade value (age and position vs. potential and resume), yet its always easier to prefer what's familiar.

The Podium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #102
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I think you need to re-read my post.

And I don't see him hitting 25 goals again, unless he takes more shots or improves the quality of his shot.



I don't think there's a big difference between Raymond and Kulemin to be honest. Both have hit career highs that I don't think either will approach again, both are coming off disappointing seasons, and both could probably use a change of scenery.
Kulemin is still a great defensive presence on the ice when he's not producing offensively, Raymond isn't, Kulemin is also by far the more physical player of the two. Anyone suggesting that the two of them are even close in value is sadly mistaken.

If I'm Burke and if I'm looking to deal Kulemin I'd be looking for a guy who's similar to Kulemin. A youngish struggling, defensively sound winger, with a couple of good NHL seasons under his belt.

Ivan13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 12:27 PM
  #103
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,110
vCash: 500
Buy Low, Sell High.

Kulemin had a bad year last year, I truly believe what you saw the year before is close to the player he will continue to be over his career.

IMO, it would be a mistake to move Kulemin.

Fogelhund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:05 PM
  #104
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,468
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Kulemin is still a great defensive presence on the ice when he's not producing offensively, Raymond isn't, Kulemin is also by far the more physical player of the two. Anyone suggesting that the two of them are even close in value is sadly mistaken.

If I'm Burke and if I'm looking to deal Kulemin I'd be looking for a guy who's similar to Kulemin. A youngish struggling, defensively sound winger, with a couple of good NHL seasons under his belt.
Actually Raymond is a great defensive presence and is a mainstay on our PK, so you're wrong there. Kulemin is far more physical, but Raymond has far more speed. It all depends on what you value and what components your team has a lot of. Vancouver has a lot of speedy/non-physical players, while the Leafs appear to lack in speed. Anyone suggesting that the two of them aren't close in value is sadly sadly sadly mistaken.

Keep in mind, Kulemin is coming off a 7 goal season, while Raymond is coming off an 11 goal season in fewer games. Raymond suffered a broken back in June 2011, and still outproduced Kulemin last year.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:24 PM
  #105
Nizdizzle
Salary cap? Huh?
 
Nizdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Actually Raymond is a great defensive presence and is a mainstay on our PK, so you're wrong there. Kulemin is far more physical, but Raymond has far more speed. It all depends on what you value and what components your team has a lot of. Vancouver has a lot of speedy/non-physical players, while the Leafs appear to lack in speed. Anyone suggesting that the two of them aren't close in value is sadly sadly sadly mistaken.

Keep in mind, Kulemin is coming off a 7 goal season, while Raymond is coming off an 11 goal season in fewer games. Raymond suffered a broken back in June 2011, and still outproduced Kulemin last year.
You're kidding, right?

Nizdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:31 PM
  #106
Kyle93
Registered User
 
Kyle93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Actually Raymond is a great defensive presence and is a mainstay on our PK, so you're wrong there. Kulemin is far more physical, but Raymond has far more speed. It all depends on what you value and what components your team has a lot of. Vancouver has a lot of speedy/non-physical players, while the Leafs appear to lack in speed. Anyone suggesting that the two of them aren't close in value is sadly sadly sadly mistaken.

Keep in mind, Kulemin is coming off a 7 goal season, while Raymond is coming off an 11 goal season in fewer games. Raymond suffered a broken back in June 2011, and still outproduced Kulemin last year.
Lack in speed? are you serious that is too funny.

Kyle93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:33 PM
  #107
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't think there's a big difference between Raymond and Kulemin to be honest. Both have hit career highs that I don't think either will approach again, both are coming off disappointing seasons, and both could probably use a change of scenery.
Raymond is Kulemin with worse defensive game, less offensive tools and without a physical presence. He might be slightly faster (which he should be since he's a flake and Kulemin is built like a tank and has 30 pounds on him), but as a player he is significantly inferior.

The disappointing seasons argument is asinine. I guess Bozak for Kesler would be a good trade since both are coming off of 40ish point seasons.

Vancouver fans trying to peddle Raymond as something other than tweener crap is as annoying as Toronto fans trying to peddle MacArthur as something other than tweener crap. Oh hey, there's fair trade.

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:37 PM
  #108
Hennig
It was 4-1.
 
Hennig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,431
vCash: 1684
Earlier Y2K said Kulemin needed to work on the quality of his shot too. If you have ever watched Kuley play then you would realize that's one thing he doesn't need to work on. Him and Kessel are probably the 2 most powerful shooters out of our forward group.

Hennig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:40 PM
  #109
Phion Keneuf
Top Dawg Ent.
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 27,894
vCash: 500
Kulemin lacks speed? He's probably our fastest forward when going all out

Phion Keneuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:41 PM
  #110
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,727
vCash: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
The disappointing seasons argument is asinine. I guess Bozak for Kesler would be a good trade since both are coming off of 40ish point seasons.
Bozak is coming off a career season, Kulemin and Raymond both had down years. That should be the obvious comparison.

Raymond and Kulemin also had very comparable career seasons.

kthsn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:41 PM
  #111
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,468
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Raymond is Kulemin with worse defensive game, less offensive tools and without a physical presence. He might be slightly faster, but as a player he is significantly inferior.

The disappointing seasons argument is asinine. I guess Hudler for Kesler would be a good trade since both are coming off of 50 point seasons. Hey, Hudler even outscored him! Vancouver would be nuts not to do that.
This is laughable. Kulemin has averaged 0.53 points per game over the past 3 seasons, while Raymond has averaged 0.54. Raymond also had a higher CORSI ON rating (2.72) than Kadri (2.40), and is a mainstay on the Vancouver PK. It's absolutely absurd that you say Raymond is worse defensively and just shows complete ignorance about Raymond. Raymond doesn't have a physical presence, but Kulemin doesn't have Raymond's speed.

y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:43 PM
  #112
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,468
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Earlier Y2K said Kulemin needed to work on the quality of his shot too. If you have ever watched Kuley play then you would realize that's one thing he doesn't need to work on. Him and Kessel are probably the 2 most powerful shooters out of our forward group.
Last year Kulemin shot an appalling 6.5%. The league average is around 11-12%.

y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:45 PM
  #113
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
This is laughable. Kulemin has averaged 0.53 points per game over the past 3 seasons, while Raymond has averaged 0.54. Raymond also had a higher CORSI ON rating (2.72) than Kadri (2.40), and is a mainstay on the Vancouver PK. It's absolutely absurd that you say Raymond is worse defensively and just shows complete ignorance about Raymond. Raymond doesn't have a physical presence, but Kulemin doesn't have Raymond's speed.
Uh, Kulemin is a very fast skater himself. There's not much difference, certainly not enough to bridge any other issues. Raymond is a mainstay because he's fast, not because he's good defensively. Just like how Grabner is on the Isles.

The fact that you think Raymond is nearly as valuable as Kulemin is absolutely hilarious. One is a key top 6 support player opening up space and doing boardwork, one leeched off of Kesler on a team that was lights out offensively.

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:46 PM
  #114
Hennig
It was 4-1.
 
Hennig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,431
vCash: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year Kulemin shot an appalling 6.5%. The league average is around 11-12%.
Uhh since when did a low shooting percentage = a weak shot? Watch some games bro. Hell, even a youtube video..

Hennig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:46 PM
  #115
Kyle93
Registered User
 
Kyle93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
This is laughable. Kulemin has averaged 0.53 points per game over the past 3 seasons, while Raymond has averaged 0.54. Raymond also had a higher CORSI ON rating (2.72) than Kadri (2.40), and is a mainstay on the Vancouver PK. It's absolutely absurd that you say Raymond is worse defensively and just shows complete ignorance about Raymond. Raymond doesn't have a physical presence, but Kulemin doesn't have Raymond's speed.
What the **** does Kadri have to do with this?

Kyle93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:47 PM
  #116
Hennig
It was 4-1.
 
Hennig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,431
vCash: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle93 View Post
What the **** does Kadri have to do with this?
haha that is pretty random

Hennig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:48 PM
  #117
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year Kulemin shot an appalling 6.5%. The league average is around 11-12%.
Yeah, it's called an outlier. I guess Wellwood is a sniper extraordinaire since he had nearly 20% that one season.

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #118
Kyle93
Registered User
 
Kyle93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
haha that is pretty random
Yeah exactly, some how when talking about the leafs Kadri always happens to show up in the discussion.

Kyle93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:02 PM
  #119
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,727
vCash: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Raymond is a mainstay because he's fast, not because he's good defensively. Just like how Grabner is on the Isles.
Raymond is very good defensively, excellent back checker and great positionally due to his speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
One is a key top 6 support player opening up space and doing boardwork, one leeched off of Kesler on a team that was lights out offensively.
Why is Kulemin a key top 6 player after a 7 goal season and Raymond the leech? They have very similar offensive numbers in the last 3 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah, it's called an outlier.
Then so is the season Kulemin shot 17%.

I'm not saying Kulemin is worse than Raymond but the arguments apart from size/cycling down low are much closer than some fans are willing to admit.

kthsn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:12 PM
  #120
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Actually Raymond is a great defensive presence and is a mainstay on our PK, so you're wrong there. Kulemin is far more physical, but Raymond has far more speed. It all depends on what you value and what components your team has a lot of. Vancouver has a lot of speedy/non-physical players, while the Leafs appear to lack in speed. Anyone suggesting that the two of them aren't close in value is sadly sadly sadly mistaken.

Keep in mind, Kulemin is coming off a 7 goal season, while Raymond is coming off an 11 goal season in fewer games. Raymond suffered a broken back in June 2011, and still outproduced Kulemin last year.
Playing a lot of minutes on the PK doesn't mean someone is an above average defensive player when it comes to 5v5 hockey. When I watch Raymond play I never get the impression that he's an outstanding or even above average defensive player. He does a decent job, but Kulemin is clearly the better defensive player out of the two.

I see Kulemin as a steady 20+ goal scorer with great defensive game, he's a perfect complimentary winger for a 2nd line job, I'd be thrilled if he was on either Avs (I think he would look great next to PAP and Duchene, or with Radar on the 3rd line with Landeskog moving up to Stastny's or Duchene's wing) or Habs roster.

Oh and lets not forget that his slow start to the season could be in large part explained by the Lokomotiv tragedy, that surely left some pretty big scars on his psyche. I'm sure it was extremely difficult for him to concentrate on hockey with that dark cloud hanging over his head.

Ivan13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:16 PM
  #121
12345*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Raymond is very good defensively, excellent back checker and great positionally due to his speed.


Why is Kulemin a key top 6 player after a 7 goal season and Raymond the leech? They have very similar offensive numbers in the last 3 years.


Then so is the season Kulemin shot 17%.

I'm not saying Kulemin is worse than Raymond but the arguments apart from size/cycling down low are much closer than some fans are willing to admit.
No one wants ****** ass Mason Raymond. Is that clear enough for you?|

12345* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:18 PM
  #122
Kyle93
Registered User
 
Kyle93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,880
vCash: 500
I know he's playing with elite players but Kulemin seems to be getting his confidence back playing in the KHL and I think he can come back and at least be a 20-20 guy who is great defensively. His stats so far in the KHL this season:

34GP 14G 20A 34Pts 22+/-

Kyle93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:18 PM
  #123
12345*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle93 View Post
What the **** does Kadri have to do with this?
Its Kadri's fault! it always is.

12345* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:19 PM
  #124
Jax Teller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
This is laughable. Kulemin has averaged 0.53 points per game over the past 3 seasons, while Raymond has averaged 0.54. Raymond also had a higher CORSI ON rating (2.72) than Kadri (2.40), and is a mainstay on the Vancouver PK. It's absolutely absurd that you say Raymond is worse defensively and just shows complete ignorance about Raymond. Raymond doesn't have a physical presence, but Kulemin doesn't have Raymond's speed.
Why do you keep saying this?

Kulemin is probably the Leafs fastest forward. On a team with speedsters like Lombardi, Kessel, Grabovski and M.Brown.

The fact that Raymond might be a tiny bit faster really doesn't add much in this situation.

Jax Teller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:48 PM
  #125
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
No one wants ****** ass Mason Raymond. Is that clear enough for you?|
How many times in how many threads did the Av's say the same thing about Bozak? 50? 75?

As a Hab fan I've felt that Kulemin won't be a Leaf soon enough, the same as Schenn.

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.