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01-01-2013, 03:25 PM
  #651
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I never got the purists who get all riled up when you say you hope that your team loses that last game or three to get a better pick when your season is over anyways. Do you actually believe that the players will dog it because of the team's draft position? Do you think that I have magical powers that I will choose to employ to make the team lose? Unless either of those are true, then what is the big deal?


Root for them to win, great with me, I will not judge. I will root for them to lose, do not judge me in return. I rooted strongly for the Pens to remain the worst team in the league in the Ovechkin draft. Hell, that team was so bad there was nothing other than that to root for. I even made suckage countdown threads to see the magic number to gain worst in the league. If we had won one more game then we would have had Cam Barker rather than Malkin. Good thing I employed my magical powers to make them lose that year, eh? But my idea of what would be better for the team is no less legitimate or irrational than yours, and does not make me less of a fan. My position came through a very logical path which even if you disagree with it, you can not deny that it at least has some rational underpinning.
I guess there's a difference between rooting for the team to lose and wanting the team to intentionally lose. I personally don't agree with either but whatever. You're right, rooting for them to lose is harmless. If the team itself (or the coaches or management) starts to have that attitude, that's when there is a legitimate issue.

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Old
01-01-2013, 03:27 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The players will never tank. Why would they? To get a better pick to take their job?

I just think they **** the bed this season and if they lost or won agt. Cleveland, it's a small matter.

But I wouldn't be upset if they lost and got a better pick.
ya, the players never will. The coaches likely won't either. Management could though. They could have told Tomlin to sit Ben and Troy and whoever else and use the game as a preseason type tryout for other guys. That's the sort of idea I think a lot of people rooting against us wish we had done. That might not be intentionally losing, but its not doing your best to win either. I'm glad we didn't do it. If we had sat those guys and lost to Cleveland, I think it would have been more than a small matter. The organization would have lost a lot of respect from its players.

The only time I would want to sit guys like that is when the game is meaningless for the opposite reason and we are resting up for the playoffs.

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01-01-2013, 03:36 PM
  #653
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I've watched a ton of both and Willis is in a different universe than Timmons.

His speed and instincts are off the charts.
The differences between Timmons and Willis are pretty big, IMO. Timmons is an undersized MLB, Willis is not. I agree that Timmons is probably the most athletic ILB in the league and could probably give a lot of guys who play safety in this league a run for their money athletically, and be better than a large portion of them. At the same rate, you don't need an ILB to be that athletic. Willis, for his size and strength, is incredibly quick and explosive, not to mention one of the smartest football players in the league.

Willis is on a level all his own, IMO. The only guy I've watched who may be able to get on that level as a MLB some day is Kuechly, but he still has a little ways to go, which I think he will in the next year or two and be spoken in the same breath as the greats in this league today. Derrick Johnson is also a great MLB, and I don't think a lot of people realize how good he is because he plays on a toilet bowl team.

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01-01-2013, 03:40 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
ya, the players never will. The coaches likely won't either. Management could though. They could have told Tomlin to sit Ben and Troy and whoever else and use the game as a preseason type tryout for other guys. That's the sort of idea I think a lot of people rooting against us wish we had done. That might not be intentionally losing, but its not doing your best to win either. I'm glad we didn't do it. If we had sat those guys and lost to Cleveland, I think it would have been more than a small matter. The organization would have lost a lot of respect from its players.

The only time I would want to sit guys like that is when the game is meaningless for the opposite reason and we are resting up for the playoffs.
And when I say the things I do, it's not to tank. I'm not talking about sitting guys. I'm merely talking about giving young guys who have had limited snaps (really looking at a guy like Sylvester and Worilds here), to be given a big chunk of the snaps. Fact is, next season, we will be relying on those guys to be starters. That's the road we're headed down now. At least giving them a game where they were able to get a huge chunk of reps would give the coaching staff more tape on the both of them than they have had the 15 games previous.

Whatever though, the draft order is what it is. I wouldn't have been all upset losing to Cleveland, as that embarrassment already occurred in the beginning of the season (along with losing to other lesser opponents). I think giving 2nd stringers who will be in the running to be starters, and not really worrying about the outcome of the game would have been more constructive, as the season was already lost.

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Old
01-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
The differences between Timmons and Willis are pretty big, IMO. Timmons is an undersized MLB, Willis is not. I agree that Timmons is probably the most athletic ILB in the league and could probably give a lot of guys who play safety in this league a run for their money athletically, and be better than a large portion of them. At the same rate, you don't need an ILB to be that athletic. Willis, for his size and strength, is incredibly quick and explosive, not to mention one of the smartest football players in the league.

Willis is on a level all his own, IMO. The only guy I've watched who may be able to get on that level as a MLB some day is Kuechly, but he still has a little ways to go, which I think he will in the next year or two and be spoken in the same breath as the greats in this league today. Derrick Johnson is also a great MLB, and I don't think a lot of people realize how good he is because he plays on a toilet bowl team.
I agree about Johnson
I actually forgot about him cause the only time I've ever seen him play was against the steelers this year.
I don't really watch to many chiefs games. LOL

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Old
01-01-2013, 04:07 PM
  #656
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Few things I should mention about draft.....I don't want Mingo. Sure, he got physical tools but he hasn't impressed me at LSU.

Montee Ball played a ton of downs at Wisconsin. A lot of wear and tear. He had benefit from a great linemen in front of him. Who knows how well he runs with mediocre line? I'm not sure I want him in second, I won't mind getting him in 4th if we're lucky.

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01-01-2013, 04:11 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Well, maybe the Steelers will franchise Lewis and negotiate an extension with him. I can't stand that attitude, though. So much cockiness in football players nowadays.
I can understand that but it's very common for corners to have that kind of attitude. We have seen it a lot in NFL.

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Old
01-01-2013, 04:25 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
I can understand that but it's very common for corners to have that kind of attitude. We have seen it a lot in NFL.
He's prob being a ****** cause his homie prob won't be with us next year.

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01-01-2013, 04:26 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Few things I should mention about draft.....I don't want Mingo. Sure, he got physical tools but he hasn't impressed me at LSU.
Understandable. His stats weren't that great (just 4.5 sacks this season) but it's hard not to get excited watching him when he's on like he was against Clemson. He is a very electrifying athlete off the edge with good size at 6'5" and 240.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Montee Ball played a ton of downs at Wisconsin. A lot of wear and tear. He had benefit from a great linemen in front of him. Who knows how well he runs with mediocre line? I'm not sure I want him in second, I won't mind getting him in 4th if we're lucky.
Good points.

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01-01-2013, 04:36 PM
  #660
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Looks like Andy Reid is likely to sign with Arizona as their new HC. I guess they're hoping he can work his magic with Kolb but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were them.

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01-01-2013, 04:38 PM
  #661
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Mingo is your prototypical boom or bust linebacker. He could be a perennial Pro Bowler, and a guy who has the ability to be in the upper-teens in sacks year after year...or he could be out of the league in 4 seasons...

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01-01-2013, 04:39 PM
  #662
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I just read that as well. I hope if he goes there than that helps Fitz out as he deserves much better.

The have to interview Horton for the Rooney rule.

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01-01-2013, 04:41 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Mingo is your prototypical boom or bust linebacker. He could be a perennial Pro Bowler, and a guy who has the ability to be in the upper-teens in sacks year after year...or he could be out of the league in 4 seasons...
I agree. If we were picking in the mid 20's I'd like him a bit more. But if we stay put at 17 I believe there will be better options for us. I also think that someone will overdraft him in the top 15 so I'm not entirely worried about it.

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01-01-2013, 04:44 PM
  #664
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Mingo is your prototypical boom or bust linebacker. He could be a perennial Pro Bowler, and a guy who has the ability to be in the upper-teens in sacks year after year...or he could be out of the league in 4 seasons...
Yeah, he should be able over 10 sacks with very good players around him. He's just too inconsistent. I want a guy who have a motor until a whistle blows.

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01-01-2013, 04:49 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Mingo is your prototypical boom or bust linebacker. He could be a perennial Pro Bowler, and a guy who has the ability to be in the upper-teens in sacks year after year...or he could be out of the league in 4 seasons...
I agree. As much as I like the kid, he is a very scary/risky pick. There's been many guys like him that bust. Vernon Gholston and Aaron Maybin come to mind immediately. I'd prefer more of a sure thing at 17 but who knows what will still be there when we pick.

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01-01-2013, 04:50 PM
  #666
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Some are saying Te'o's stock is going to drop quite a after the combine. Could be there at 17.

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01-01-2013, 04:55 PM
  #667
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The next Wisconsin running back to have a good NFL career will be the first. Just look at the last 20+ years for them, they always have guys who get insane amounts of yards (Ron Dayne, PJ Hill, John Clay, Brian Calhoun, Anthony Davis, Michael Bennett), those weren't 1,000 yards guys but 1500 yard guys at Wisconsin and those were just off the top of my head. Wisconsin just knows how to run the ball with any type of RB effectively. The best of that terrible lot was Bennett and he was crap outside of one year.

I would want no part of Ball. Seen this song and dance with Wisconsin RB's way too many times.

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01-01-2013, 04:57 PM
  #668
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Some are saying Te'o's stock is going to drop quite a after the combine. Could be there at 17.
I wouldn't mind that. He seems like a Pouncey type of pick that is safe but still impactful. He'd lock down one of our ILB spots for the next decade or so.

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01-01-2013, 05:44 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
The next Wisconsin running back to have a good NFL career will be the first. Just look at the last 20+ years for them, they always have guys who get insane amounts of yards (Ron Dayne, PJ Hill, John Clay, Brian Calhoun, Anthony Davis, Michael Bennett), those weren't 1,000 yards guys but 1500 yard guys at Wisconsin and those were just off the top of my head. Wisconsin just knows how to run the ball with any type of RB effectively. The best of that terrible lot was Bennett and he was crap outside of one year.

I would want no part of Ball. Seen this song and dance with Wisconsin RB's way too many times.
And that really comes down to Wisconsin being able to produce linemen.

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01-01-2013, 05:45 PM
  #670
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I wouldn't mind that. He seems like a Pouncey type of pick that is safe but still impactful. He'd lock down one of our ILB spots for the next decade or so.
And be the type of guy I've been talking about. We need an identity on this team. Te'o could be a big part of that going forward.

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01-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #671
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Stanford band couldn't be more hipster.

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01-01-2013, 05:56 PM
  #672
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If Te'o is gone, Ogletree is a player we should consider.

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01-01-2013, 06:12 PM
  #673
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Ogletree to me is like a Timmons with baggage.

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01-01-2013, 06:22 PM
  #674
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JTG, if Warmack and Te'o are available at 17th, who would you pick?

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01-01-2013, 06:39 PM
  #675
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Does anyone think the Steelers should consider switching to a 4-3?

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