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Three MHC's (Most Hated Coaches) All time

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:15 PM
  #51
Dark Shadows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
In the Journal de Montreal back in '95 Cournoyer said about Bowman "What I disliked most about him was his lack of honesty. I have no intention of speaking to him before, during or after the game, but if we speak to him, I doubt it'll be to wish him Merry Christmas!"

In the same issue, Tremblay said "He was constantly on my case. He used to ask what I was doing on the team; he said I couldn't skate or shoot. He was constantly threatening to send me back to the minors.....I'd go home, crying and enraged. Because of him, I almost gave it all up."

Those were quoted in "Winning, Nothing Else".....I wasn't able to get the original Journal de Montreal article via Google search, though that's not entirely surprising given that nearly twenty years have past.
Tremblay is one to talk
Well, maybe he was not a bad coach to the whole team, but he was sure a jerk to Roy

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:18 PM
  #52
Morgoth Bauglir
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Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
Tremblay is one to talk
Well, maybe he was not a bad coach to the whole team, but he was sure a jerk to Roy
No doubt. From what I understand Mario learned from the experience and was well liked by the Devil's players when he was an assistant for Lemaire. At least that's what my wife (who's a huge Devils fan) tells me. If it's true then props to Tremblay for being man enough to learn from his mistakes

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:44 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
In the same issue, Tremblay said "He was constantly on my case. He used to ask what I was doing on the team; he said I couldn't skate or shoot. He was constantly threatening to send me back to the minors.....I'd go home, crying and enraged. Because of him, I almost gave it all up."
Part of Scotty's mind games. He knew to have Tremblay at his most effective, Tremblay had to play angry. If he truly disliked Mario, he wouldn't have played him as much as he did and wouldn't have let him make the team virtually straight out of Junior. He knew to get the good Mario, he needed an angry Mario.

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:41 AM
  #54
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Hated by Own Players?

Punch Imlach (but not by the Team Leaders)
Scotty Bowman (by almost the entire team)
Phil Watson (by anyone who played for him)
Eddie Shore (by anyone who was involved in Hockey with him)

Hated by Fans ?

Opposing Fans - Fred Shero, when with Philly
By own Fans - Ron Wilson, when with the Leafs

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:44 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Maybe he is distant with his players or plays mind games with them that just never get reported. I guess we'd have to be in a locker room to find out. Bowman has always struck me as a guy that would hold private issues behind closed doors and never talk to the press about it so we may never know
I found an old interview with Tom Barrasso (I think it was), who told a story from his Buffalo days about how Bowman pretended that he didn't even notice Tom once when they where at the same ski trip with their families. Barrasso tried to say hi, but Scotty just completely ignored him.

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12-29-2012, 07:40 AM
  #56
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Vic Stasiuk?

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Padan View Post
I found an old interview with Tom Barrasso (I think it was), who told a story from his Buffalo days about how Bowman pretended that he didn't even notice Tom once when they where at the same ski trip with their families. Barrasso tried to say hi, but Scotty just completely ignored him.
I suppose that's better than the way Scotty Bowman treated Claude Lemieux and his family...

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:44 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
I know that Jacques Lemaire, Yvan Cournoyer, and Mario Tremblay absolutely despised Bowman from the Dynasty Habs years. There was a lot of noise made about how Lemaire wanted to stick it to Bowman when the Devils beat the Red Wings in the finals.

Apparently Mario Lemieux in Pittsburgh and Sergei Fedorov in Detroit couldn't stand Bowman either.

You can't argue Bowman's results though: The man won championships.
Most players hated, but respected him. With a few exceptions.
Robinson once apparently inferred that if they had a players coach instead of an owners coach, the Habs would have won 6 straight instead of 4.

It seems like the Dynasty wings who won with him all loved him by the end though. Especially Yzerman, who started out disliking him for never letting him open up and run and gun and threatening to bench after the 94 year. That team ended up realizing he was right

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:00 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Anyone mention Michel Bergeron yet?
While he wasn't really THAT liked, I don't think he's anywhere close to the guys mentionned.

I mean, from what I could gather, Dionne hated him for benching him. But it's not like Dionne was extremely effective at that point.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:12 PM
  #60
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I don't know how to put them in order, but I'll put in another vote for the Tikhonov, Keenan, Shore triumvirate. Those are three names that could spur volumes of discussion on myriad lines of "hate" with respect to various aspects of coaching; be it criticism from players, coaches, fans, or anyone else, really.

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12-29-2012, 05:12 PM
  #61
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I know you guys will roll your eyes about this: if you haven't seen them, check out the 2 Don Cherry biography movies, he played for shore and there were plenty of authentic things which actually happened which Shore did;

-making players sort the food and clean up the rink for every game (ie pack the peanuts and things).
-tying a noose around his goalie's neck for a practice because he went down too often (and this was in days before helmets)
-literally removing Cherry from a hospital and playing him that night despite the doctor telling him Cherry had a concussion and needed to rest
-supposedly he is the cause of the phrase 'black aces'; players not playing were forced to work arena jobs that night.
-plenty of players had it in their contract they could not be sent to Shore's team
-Shore's harsh treatment of players was an indirect cause of the formation of the NHLPA (so there you go, maybe if there was no Eddie Shore, we might have hockey today!)
-despite having no medical training, Shore basically appointed himself team doctor and caused many permanent injuries. There was a scene of Cherry having a broken toe and Shore having him dip his foot in scolding hot and ice cold water alternatively. Also he used to perform his own chiropractics on players with spinal injuries and ruined a lot of careers

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:38 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeaf83 View Post
-Shore's harsh treatment of players was an indirect cause of the formation of the NHLPA (so there you go, maybe if there was no Eddie Shore, we might have hockey today!)
I read a good book (The Last Hurrah by Stephen Cole) where a whole chapter was devoted to Shore and the birth of the NHLPA. Turns out the Springfield Indians (Shore's team) went on strike to protest the suspension of three of their teammates, who Shore suspended for demanding a raise. The story spread like wildfire and when Clarence Campbell found out, he threatened to destroy the careers of all those on the team. I guess Campbell feared a revolution would take place and as it turned out he was right. Alan Eagleson went to bat for the Indians and managed to get Shore to back down and from there the NHLPA was formed.

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:14 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by leeaf83 View Post
Also he used to perform his own chiropractics on players with spinal injuries and ruined a lot of careers
Which careers did Shore specifically ruin through his chiropractic manipulations?

Or did that sentence consist of two unrelated statements?

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12-30-2012, 08:57 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Which careers did Shore specifically ruin through his chiropractic manipulations?

Or did that sentence consist of two unrelated statements?
It's not really documented, dont forget it wasn't the NHL. But it's pretty much a given that playing doctor without proper medical knowledge especially to the spine can cause long term injury ... and yes I'm in position to confirm this since I have permanent whiplash.

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Old
12-31-2012, 03:24 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by leeaf83 View Post
It's not really documented, dont forget it wasn't the NHL. But it's pretty much a given that playing doctor without proper medical knowledge especially to the spine can cause long term injury ... and yes I'm in position to confirm this since I have permanent whiplash.
You aren't in a position to confirm anything about the effects of Eddie Shore's back manipulation.

Shore had enough enemies that I'm sure we'd hear all about the guy whose back he wrecked if it had actually happened.

Yes, Shore deserves to be mentioned very prominently in this thread. Players hated him, and with very good reason. But I don't think there's any reason to believe that he was incompetent or didn't know what he was doing. Shore was a great player, a successful coach who won five Calder Cups as a coach, and a successful businessman as an owner. What exactly did Shore have to gain by ending a lot of careers through cracking backs? He was a first-class *******, not a bumbling incompetent.

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Old
12-31-2012, 04:43 AM
  #66
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one thing about Bowman, many of his players went on to be coaches and admitted they used what they learned from him to win

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Old
12-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #67
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John Muckler, Jacques Martin, and Pete Deboer top my list

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Old
12-31-2012, 11:10 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
one thing about Bowman, many of his players went on to be coaches and admitted they used what they learned from him to win
Yeah, Bowman definitely knew what he was doing and his players respected that.

I was reading Larry Robinson's book recently (Robinson for the Defense, from 1988). He didn't like Bowman's mind games at all when he played for him. But he had a ton of respect for Bowman's ability, and after Bowman was gone all of the coaches that followed were compared to him and none could measure up. Claude Ruel was too close to the players, Bob Berry was too inflexible and reliant on outdated systems and couldn't run a practice well, Jean Perron didn't have a pro background and the players didn't respect him, etc. Robinson thought Lemaire was a very good coach, and while Lemaire was his own man with his own personality Robinson noticed quite a few things that he thought Jacques had learned from Bowman.

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12-31-2012, 11:31 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
one thing about Bowman, many of his players went on to be coaches and admitted they used what they learned from him to win
I think you can be hated as a coach and still show coaching talent and be very effective. Bowman is possibly even one of the poster children for that.

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Old
01-01-2013, 12:19 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by darkhorse686 View Post
If you mean hated by players, Keenan and Bowman for sure.

I think Steve Shutt once said that the Canadiens hated Bowman 364 days a year and one day of the year they collect their Stanley Cup rings.


What about Pat Burns? I he was really hard on his teams
Know a guy who played for him on the Canadiens. Not a pleasant guy.

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Old
01-01-2013, 12:52 PM
  #71
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Yes, Shore deserves to be mentioned very prominently in this thread...
Ya, rather "innovative" I guess is the kinder word to apply.... in addition to the "noose" attached to the crossbar in the hopes of teaching his goalie to stay on his feet, and I dont know how true this one is, but apparently Eddie had also installed a system of blocks & tackle with ropes attached the girders in the old Springfield arena, then harnessed to players on the ice. In practice when they strayed from their "lanes", he'd haul them clear off the ice & whilst dangling mid-air, admonish them for straying from their prescribed routes....

Then there were the sticks he bought by the gross. None of your C.C.M. Custom Pro's or Northlands'. Nope, he bought "Wallys". A really low end cheap hardware store type stick with all the feel of a 2X4. If a player wanted a better blade, they'd have to buy it themselves. I remember Wallys as a kid. Dreadful sticks. Heavy shaft, cheap blade (straight only of course), no fiberglass wrapping let alone lamination whatsoever, about $1.35ea from the barrel. In fact, I cant even remember if they had them designed & designated Left or Right, doubt it, and they were of course all the same Lie. Wally's were in fact used by a lot of the old EHL & other minor pro teams far & wide because they were so cheap. I believe around 1966, based in Ontario, they were bought out by US based Hillerich & Bradsby, who dropped the Wally brand name altogether & started producing Louisville Slugger sticks from the old Wally plant, seriously improving & upgrading the design & facilities.

More modern day Coaches despised by many a player includes
Crawford, Boudreau, Ken Hitchcock, Ron Wilson & John Tortorella.


Last edited by Killion: 01-01-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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Old
01-01-2013, 07:35 PM
  #72
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Don't remember the exact quote, but Rick Martin stated something to the effect of 'wanting to put a magnet to Bowman's head (Bowman had a steel plate in his skull).

How about Mike Keenan protege, Ted Sator. I can not recall any stories now, but I believe he made himself subhuman as well, didn't he?

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01-01-2013, 07:51 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
Eddie Shore was in a class of his own.
Don Cherry has said that the only person who actually liked Shore was Brian Kilrea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
You aren't in a position to confirm anything about the effects of Eddie Shore's back manipulation.

Shore had enough enemies that I'm sure we'd hear all about the guy whose back he wrecked if it had actually happened.

Yes, Shore deserves to be mentioned very prominently in this thread. Players hated him, and with very good reason. But I don't think there's any reason to believe that he was incompetent or didn't know what he was doing. Shore was a great player, a successful coach who won five Calder Cups as a coach, and a successful businessman as an owner. What exactly did Shore have to gain by ending a lot of careers through cracking backs? He was a first-class *******, not a bumbling incompetent.
There were a few players who have said that Shore's catch-all medical cure for any sickness, illness, malaise, or other issue was either some magical concoction (apparently a laxative oil) or drops of iodine (which he gave out like water).

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01-01-2013, 09:09 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
You aren't in a position to confirm anything about the effects of Eddie Shore's back manipulation.

Shore had enough enemies that I'm sure we'd hear all about the guy whose back he wrecked if it had actually happened.

Yes, Shore deserves to be mentioned very prominently in this thread. Players hated him, and with very good reason. But I don't think there's any reason to believe that he was incompetent or didn't know what he was doing. Shore was a great player, a successful coach who won five Calder Cups as a coach, and a successful businessman as an owner. What exactly did Shore have to gain by ending a lot of careers through cracking backs? He was a first-class *******, not a bumbling incompetent.
Did you play for Shore? Because Don Cherry did and confirmed this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_-1kdeep24

now you can go on all day and counter "oh it's a movie" but this is from Cherry's own accounts.

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Old
01-01-2013, 09:15 PM
  #75
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What exactly did Shore have to gain by ending a lot of careers through cracking backs? He was a first-class *******, not a bumbling incompetent.
He may have been incompetent when it came believing that his own chiropractic methods were helpful. The guy had an almost unhuman pain threshold himself, but perhaps didn't realize that everyone else may not be able to endure what he did?

Quote from Bill White in Brian Kilrea's book:

"Eddie thought he was some sort of chiropractor. He always wanted to crack your neck or back. He messed up Barclay Plager's back one time. Barclay had to go to a real chiropractor to get it straightened out again.

One day he says 'Get on the table, I'm going to crack your back.' Well there was no way I was getting on that table!

The next day he took me out of the lineup. The trainer told me 'He'll put you back in if you let him crack it'. So I did. He cracked me, twisted my hips and contorted me all sorts of ways. I had to have a spinal fusion years later. I blame Shore for that!"

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