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The Luongo Thread - "Make it stop, make it stop!"

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Old
01-01-2013, 07:36 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
And in the meantime the Canucks can enjoy the best tandem in what will likely be a compact schedule.

There was literally no upside to dealing Luongo pre draft if it didn't improve our team.
I can't wait to watch one of them sit on the bench. Not that it matters, I am looking for this team to be making moves to be better in the playoffs. A goalie tandem doesn't do that.

BTW, if "literally" is what matters, then there was literally no downside to dealing Luongo either. Except of course these threads wouldn't exist in their current format and that would be a shame.

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01-01-2013, 07:39 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
Instead of just posting smug responses with nothing to back them up, how about you prove me wrong.
Here's a better comparable package...

Anisimov = JVR
Erixon = Finn
Dubinsky = Kulemin
NYR 1st > Leafs 2nd

Heck, take the 2nd rd pick away and I make that deal.

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01-01-2013, 07:41 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Here's a better comparable package...

Anisimov = JVR
Erixon = Finn
Dubinsky = Kulemin
NYR 1st > Leafs 2nd

Heck, take the 2nd rd pick away and I make that deal.
Sounds like I wasn't that far off eh?

I wouldn't do JVR for Anisimov though, the potential of JVR far exceeds that of Anisimovs.

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01-01-2013, 07:41 PM
  #604
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And reason as to why you question my selections?
Dubinsky > Kulemin
Can play both C and W. Has hit 40+ points in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Kulemin has done it once. The bulk of the value comes from here and Kulemin doesn't bring as much.

Anisimov = Bozak or MacArthur
Arguably a wash. Production vs RFA.

Erixon > Colborne or a Blacker, or a Finn w.e Def not a Kadri or Gardiner...
Erixon is highly regarded but a definite step below an "A prospect". Erixon slightly > Blacker, Colborne, Finn.

1st > 2nd
Do I really need to explain why a late 1st =/= to a mid 2nd?

Of course the value isn't far off but I take the NYR package every time.


Last edited by kthsn: 01-01-2013 at 07:47 PM.
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01-01-2013, 07:43 PM
  #605
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If the Leafs had league average goaltending last season, they'd have been a playoff team. With Luongo, probably a Top 4 seed. It's absolutely the perfect opportunity for the Leafs; it's simply a question of whether Burke realizes it.
I have no doubt that Lu would help the Leafs. That really isn't the question. At what cost? There are lots of goalies out there that would have been an improvement, although I don't think there is one that would have made a 23 point difference. Hell, they would have passed the Bruins and finished 2nd!

Of course we would have milked their system dry to do it.

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01-01-2013, 07:46 PM
  #606
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Dubinsky's down year was better then Kulemin's down year, IMO, and playing center naturally makes him more valuable. 34 points, +16 for Dubinsky, and 24 goals and 54 points the season prior, vs Kulemin with 28 points and +2, with a high of 30 goals and 57 points last year.

Anisimov is bigger and as good defensively as either Bozak or MacArthur, and he as the potential to be better. I'm not saying either is terrible, but I will take Anisimov over either Bozak or Mac 10 times out of 10.

Erixon and either Colborne or Blacker is close, Finn would be a good comparable too for value (Finn is younger of course), but no one is saying Gardiner. Kadri you clearly value higher then we do though, so in a package like this, I'm fine not asking for him if the other conditions are met.

Toronto's second might be 10 down from New York's 1st, but that's still not equal. 25th overall > beats 35th overall. I also would argue Toronto is a playoff team with Luongo, so honestly, it's likely not top 5 or even top 10, protect it as such, as many other Leafs fans have, if you think differently.

I just compiled a list due to needing comparisons. I don't think I was too out of line with any comparison, and I hope people tell me(and show me) I was if they think so.

Kulemin is a very good player, it was noted by many people that the plane crash that tragically took the life of all those in the KHL really effected him negatively because those guys were good friends of his.

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01-01-2013, 07:46 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I can't wait to watch one of them sit on the bench. Not that it matters, I am looking for this team to be making moves to be better in the playoffs. A goalie tandem doesn't do that.
I think at this point we're arguing value.

If I'm Gillis I much rather have Luongo as a #1B this season > Bozak + Franson.

A #3C + depth D can be had for late picks as Gillis has shown. An elite goalie as insurance is not.

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01-01-2013, 07:51 PM
  #608
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[QUOTE=kthsn;56995459]Dubinsky > Kulemin
Can play both C and W. Has hit 40+ points in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Kulemin has done it once. The bulk of the value comes from here and Kulemin doesn't bring as much.

That's fair, but many of us knew Kulemin had to adjust to the NA style and ice surface when he first started in the NHL. When he went off for 30 goals we saw what Kulemin brought, a big man that can skate and score goals. 230 pounds with his speed is very important to the Leafs moving forward. As mentioned, it was noted that Kulemin's play dipped because of outside factors to the NHL, hopefully he can bounce back he's a hard working guy.

The NYR 1st is not the same as the Leafs 1st, it would have to be a second or a protected first to be comparable.

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01-01-2013, 07:55 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
That's fair, but many of us knew Kulemin had to adjust to the NA style and ice surface when he first started in the NHL. When he went off for 30 goals we saw what Kulemin brought, a big man that can skate and score goals. 230 pounds with his speed is very important to the Leafs moving forward.

The NYR 1st is not the same as the Leafs 1st, it would have to be a second or a protected first to be comparable.
To be fair in Kulemin's 30 goal season he shot something unsustainable. 20G is a much fairer prediction. Even then I'd rather have Dubinsky.

I have no problems making a 1st protected/conditional. Confident Luongo in a Carlyle system at worst makes you a bubble team.
It's on Burke to fill in the missing holes (IMO that would be a right side top 4 guy + upgrade on Connolly/Bozak).

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01-01-2013, 08:04 PM
  #610
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I think at this point we're arguing value.

If I'm Gillis I much rather have Luongo as a #1B this season > Bozak + Franson.

A #3C + depth D can be had for late picks as Gillis has shown. An elite goalie as insurance is not.
Value is all we are discussing, and the trade was Kadri, Bozak, Franson & a 2nd. That apparently would absolute disgust at least one person in this thread.

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01-01-2013, 08:22 PM
  #611
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They also know he wasn't enough to EVER get the Panthers into the playoffs.
Panthers were inept not just defensively but offensively under the Luongo years. That's the reason why they didn't make the playoffs.

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01-01-2013, 08:25 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
I just compiled a list due to needing comparisons. I don't think I was too out of line with any comparison, and I hope people tell me(and show me) I was if they think so.

Kulemin is a very good player, it was noted by many people that the plane crash that tragically took the life of all those in the KHL really effected him negatively because those guys were good friends of his.
I think the JVR, Finn/Colborne/Blacker (in that order), Kulemin, Leafs 2nd package is closer to the Nash package then Kulemin, Finn/Colborne/Blacker, Bozak/Mac, Leafs 2nd, because I feel that every comparison, outside of Erixon to the Leafs prospects, loses some value. I'd argue JVR could be more valuable then Anisimov, but Kulemin and Bozak/Mac aren't the same value as Dubi and Anisimov.

Due to JVR just joining the Leafs, and surrendering 2 potential top six wingers, I don't know it's a realistic proposal, but I feel that the value is closer. Then many other offers that have come up.

I'm happy to drop the first to a second if a player that potentially fills our needs, ie Van Riemsdyk, is included. Now we have value, we just need to tweak the offer so it covers what Toronto can surrender and what the Canucks need. One spot down, but Kulemin is redundant if we get JVR or even Lupul, and as long as we have Raymond. The prospects are fine, the pick is ok, but if we need to adjust value for the Leafs, I don't have a problem surrendering one, the other, or both if Kulemin turns into something more usable on our roster.

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01-01-2013, 08:29 PM
  #613
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Sounds like I wasn't that far off eh?

I wouldn't do JVR for Anisimov though, the potential of JVR far exceeds that of Anisimovs.
The potential of JVR when he was with the Flyers exceeded that of Anisimov. On the leafs, it's a crapshoot considering they are terrible at player development and dont have any support players.

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01-01-2013, 08:30 PM
  #614
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Luongo to FLA for Petrovic and a 2nd. I'd take that over anything Leafs fans are offering currently.

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01-01-2013, 08:39 PM
  #615
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Luongo to FLA for Petrovic and a 2nd. I'd take that over anything Leafs fans are offering currently.
Sure, I can see something like that happening as well.

However if a Leaf fan came and posted that trade, it might just 'disgust' people again lol.

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01-01-2013, 08:57 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Luongo to FLA for Petrovic and a 2nd. I'd take that over anything Leafs fans are offering currently.
while it might be better than the leafs package, Petrovic is still a prospect who cannot contribute now.

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01-01-2013, 09:17 PM
  #617
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Luongo for futures isn't the right move, IMO.

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01-01-2013, 09:28 PM
  #618
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while it might be better than the leafs package, Petrovic is still a prospect who cannot contribute now.
I don't see how his contributions can be any less than Tanev, Alberts or Ballard at this point.

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01-01-2013, 09:28 PM
  #619
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Luongo for futures isn't the right move, IMO.
Depends on how you look at what is in the system. Some people around here are over the moon with what we have, but for those who get paid for their views, the system is lacking some key parts that they canucks will need in a few years. Would this board stand by for a 4 or 5 year rebuild where we are knocked out of the playoffs during that time? I remember the dark days very well and GM place was a ghost town some games. A lot of what happens will depend on how the new cba is written and how teams can handle a huge drop in the cap and some teams could be up the river without an oar very quickly

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01-01-2013, 09:29 PM
  #620
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Luongo for futures isn't the right move, IMO.
If the players we receive are of the caliber of Bozak and Frattin, I'd rather take futures.

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01-01-2013, 09:57 PM
  #621
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Petrovic and a 2 for Luongo is horrible value. I would settle for Bjugstad and a 1st round pick, but sadly I think Bjugstad's value is becoming overrated on here now that this suggestion will be scoffed at.

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01-01-2013, 10:32 PM
  #622
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Shore, Petrovic, 1st is a good return and is what I'm looking for.

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01-01-2013, 10:34 PM
  #623
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Shore, Petrovic, 1st is a good return and is what I'm looking for.
I'd take that too.

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01-01-2013, 11:14 PM
  #624
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Shore, Petrovic, 1st is a good return and is what I'm looking for.
Would rather take that instead of the TOR offer.

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01-01-2013, 11:45 PM
  #625
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Shore, Petrovic, 1st is a good return and is what I'm looking for.
I'm actually warming up to Shore after seeing his production in the AHL this season. This is a trade I might actually go for.

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