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Roster Talk '13 — Finland

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Old
01-01-2013, 03:50 AM
  #751
RorschachWJK
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This is a pretty good summary. Thanks also for the insider info.

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01-01-2013, 03:59 AM
  #752
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Horrible tournament. As long as none in the KALE-department takes this tournament seriously we have no chances of winning this tournament. We need A-class coaches and better preparation. (Hint. Raimo Helminen isn't one)

I guess the 95-borns were just too young for this tournament, which sounds kind of strange when they've been racking up points in mens league. (Maybe that tells us something about the skill-level in our mens league compared to FE. Sweden)

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01-01-2013, 06:11 AM
  #753
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I blame this solely on coaching. The team looked like an unstructured mess without a gameplan. Line combinations were changed constantly, the penalty killing was too passive, questionable player choices etc..

Sure, some of our big name players did not perform as well as expected, but I firmly believe this team would still be playing if they had a good coach behind the bench.

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01-01-2013, 06:18 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Jeepers Creeper View Post
I blame this solely on coaching. The team looked like an unstructured mess without a gameplan. Line combinations were changed constantly, the penalty killing was too passive, questionable player choices etc..

Sure, some of our big name players did not perform as well as expected, but I firmly believe this team would still be playing if they had a good coach behind the bench.
Actually I think our top player did perform, they scored a bunch of goals.

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01-01-2013, 06:21 AM
  #755
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Actually I think our top player did perform, they scored a bunch of goals.
Armia, Barkov and Lehkonen most certainly were expected to perform better.

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01-01-2013, 06:28 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Jeepers Creeper View Post
Armia, Barkov and Lehkonen most certainly were expected to perform better.
At the risk of sounding confrontational, Barkov and Lehkonen are excused as 17 year olds.. Armia sure. This should have been his tournament..

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01-01-2013, 06:45 AM
  #757
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Even with a list like this, we were ONE point away from the QF's. If, let's say, the first two points on the list had been different, we would have placed 2nd in the group.
Entirely possible. Also, any but the 2nd and 3rd pointers on your list are clearly ones better coaching could have done away with.

So yes, most of this mess is definitely the coaches' fault, even if they always say it's the players who play the game. Yes they do, but it's the job of the suits to give them the best possible environment to do that so that all they have to do is hit the rink and skate - now that didn't obviously happen.

In fact, I'd like to put this on the players as little as possible. Perhaps some responsibility can be put on the top 93s, who were supposed to be the leading players of this team. They clearly underachieved. Even if there were clear mispicks, Järveläinen the most prominent, he did not pick himself and was never a key player to begin with, so he or anyone of his ilk is not to blame.


It should be pretty clear now that we can't win a thing unless there is a proper, professional authority behind the bench, no matter what kind of roster we have. If this doesn't act as an eye-opener to the bigwigs in FIHA as well, they clearly don't operate with the best interests of the Finnish hockey in mind, but only their own.

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01-01-2013, 07:21 AM
  #758
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Personally I thought that Barkov was pretty solid throughout the tournament. At least he gave 100 % in each game. Barkov didn't get much support from his linemates. Lehkonen was a slight dissapointment, but u have to remember that he's only 17 (95-born)

The biggest dissapointments aside from the obvious coaching were the 93-borns. They'd have been the leaders. They'd have shown example. Espesially Armia & Salomäki. I had high hopes for Armia based on the exhibition games.

Well atleast we have a good team next year. A lot of returnees and maybe Ikonen will find a slot this time.

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01-01-2013, 07:26 AM
  #759
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Well atleast we have a good team next year. A lot of returnees and maybe Ikonen will find a slot this time.
We could have the strongest roster on this Earth, but it won't be a source of much joy if the Man-Hippo in charge of FIHA can't get his head out of his backside and hire 'em a proper coach.


Also, maybe it should be prudent not to talk about next year's team 'til we actually secure our slot. I know I already did, but... *knocks on wood*

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01-01-2013, 07:45 AM
  #760
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Entirely possible. Also, any but the 2nd and 3rd pointers on your list are clearly ones better coaching could have done away with.

So yes, most of this mess is definitely the coaches' fault, even if they always say it's the players who play the game. Yes they do, but it's the job of the suits to give them the best possible environment to do that so that all they have to do is hit the rink and skate - now that didn't obviously happen.

In fact, I'd like to put this on the players as little as possible. Perhaps some responsibility can be put on the top 93s, who were supposed to be the leading players of this team. They clearly underachieved. Even if there were clear mispicks, Järveläinen the most prominent, he did not pick himself and was never a key player to begin with, so he or anyone of his ilk is not to blame.


It should be pretty clear now that we can't win a thing unless there is a proper, professional authority behind the bench, no matter what kind of roster we have. If this doesn't act as an eye-opener to the bigwigs in FIHA as well, they clearly don't operate with the best interests of the Finnish hockey in mind, but only their own.
I don't like to put most of the blame on the players either, except for a select few -93 born ones. They were supposed to take charge, but they didn't.

I don't think Armia's motivation issues can be solved by any coach within a few weeks, it'll have to be a long-term project for someone, so that's something I'm not blaming on Rindell or Valtonen. Barkov's fatigue can't be blamed on them either, that's on Rautakorpi. Of course Rindell could've used him less on PK and so on, but I don't think it would've mattered that much.

For the most part it really is on the coaches, but I was trying to say that even with this terrible coaching we would've been in the QFs if the leading players hadn't underachieved. We wouldn't have won the tournament, but at least this disaster would've been avoided. With better coaching we would have had a chance to medal.

To Kale this is just "kids playing hockey", he doesn't take junior hockey seriously at all. That's why he gives the coaching jobs to his sauna buddies. The thing he doesn't understand is that unless these kids get the treatment they deserve, the men's team will have less success in the future. Kale doesn't seem to think these things in the long-term at all. He's only serious when it comes to the men's team, the rest doesn't matter.

It was nice hearing last spring that J. Jalonen has been keeping an eye on the U20s (and even the younger ones), trying to see which ones could possibly be used in the men's team later on. This is the kind of thinking that needs to be encouraged and supported.

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01-01-2013, 08:22 AM
  #761
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To Kale this is just "kids playing hockey", he doesn't take junior hockey seriously at all. That's why he gives the coaching jobs to his sauna buddies. The thing he doesn't understand is that unless these kids get the treatment they deserve, the men's team will have less success in the future. Kale doesn't seem to think these things in the long-term at all. He's only serious when it comes to the men's team, the rest doesn't matter.
Resultwise, it doesn't really have much of an effect in the big picture whether you'll finish first or second-to-last.

However, the impact these tournaments may have on players' mentality, these are indeed heavy lessons learned. Quite many of this squad's players will be NT staples for the next decade and more, and every chance they get to learn what it takes to win in tight tournament-type hockey is too valuable to waste.


*sigh* Kummola is a prime example of a revered revolutionary leader turning to a bad dictator. He was such a big part in making us a member of the elite, but since then he has been the biggest single hindrance in what prevents us from taking the final step, to be a nation that also wins it all consistently.

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01-01-2013, 08:33 AM
  #762
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This is just junior hockey. And it looks exactly like it. Unpredictable and mistake-prone. I wouldn't blame coaching. Finland was not that good team to begin with. Switzerland played well against Russia in pre-tournament game as well. Ofc Aaltonen's injury was a huge blow but that just showed how shallow the roster was after all.There was Teravainen and Armia but the rest was just mediocre; Barkov was the biggest disappointment. And they should have taken Ikonen as I said but most of you seemed to be happy with the cuts then... But all in all this was no surprise.

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01-01-2013, 09:07 AM
  #763
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This is just junior hockey. And it looks exactly like it. Unpredictable and mistake-prone. I wouldn't blame coaching. Finland was not that good team to begin with. Switzerland played well against Russia in pre-tournament game as well. Ofc Aaltonen's injury was a huge blow but that just showed how shallow the roster was after all.There was Teravainen and Armia but the rest was just mediocre; Barkov was the biggest disappointment. And they should have taken Ikonen as I said but most of you seemed to be happy with the cuts then... But all in all this was no surprise.
They should have taken the midget 17 year old when even our biggest and strongest 17 year old was a bit overwhelming? I love a good troll, but one can't be too obvious about it or it doesn't work..

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01-01-2013, 10:49 AM
  #764
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This is just junior hockey. And it looks exactly like it. Unpredictable and mistake-prone. I wouldn't blame coaching. Finland was not that good team to begin with. Switzerland played well against Russia in pre-tournament game as well. Ofc Aaltonen's injury was a huge blow but that just showed how shallow the roster was after all.There was Teravainen and Armia but the rest was just mediocre; Barkov was the biggest disappointment. And they should have taken Ikonen as I said but most of you seemed to be happy with the cuts then... But all in all this was no surprise.
Barkov was our most valuable center and foward in the tournament. He didn't dominate you're right and he looked lost at times because his game is molded into pro game already. Offensively he was bit unlucky at times, pucks didn't bounce in, goalies made game savers and even own player blocked his certain goal(Lehkonen). Even when he looked exhausted and didn't have any chemistry during the tournament he produced 3 points in 4 games and stepped up when Finland had comeback against Sweden but after that his team mates took another stupid offensive zone penalties which made Barkov to kill more penalties and be more exhausted and ended up as goals against.

Talks about Barkov being disappointment are nonsence. Most of us expected him to be offensively more effective but he had mostly to do everything by himself because his linemates lost the puck easily, hogged the puck, couldn't do the cycling game and with better luck he could be couple points over PPG.

IMO Barkov was our most valuable foward because he was the guy who had to fix other guys stupid penalties to waste energy on PK, he had to work his ass off in every shift to maintain the puck posession in the offensive zone. Try to keep your energy level high. There was no other player who played as hard working game without any stupid penalties. Ristolainen was the MVP IMO but Barkov wasn't an disappointment. He was an player who did everything helping this team out wasn't flashy but solid and in overall game most valuable foward in team finland by big margin. I'm very happy with his effort and how he worked hard in this tournament. It didn't help when you're already exhausted and you have to kill flatout stupid penalties.

The reason why he is succesfull in FEL is that he doesen't have to take care of everything in his line in FEL or fix the mistakes which are caused by his team mates stupidity. There was many samples where he had to fix when defenseman rushed the puck and lost it to opposite player after long shift. It was Barkov who had to fix those mistakes and skate hard into D or take defensive position to take care of possible giveaways and stayed out of the offensive game. No wonder if he was exhausted.

Looking just small sample of WJC is stupid. Barkov is at times very dominant in FEL and there is no situations where he can't play in FEL. I'm very suprised if he is not playing in the NHL next year because Barkov can play in every line and in all situations. He is very usefull player already and physically ready.

If we take the point that how the 2013 draftees performed comparing to the support what teammates gave Barkov have to be one of the best performers because Barkov barely had any support. Mostly other guys giving him more dirty work to clean up.


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01-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #765
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^^ This all might be true. Maybe the expectation were a bit too high. He said himself that he wants be one of the best players of the tournament etc. He surely didn't reach that level of play. He couldn't score those critical goals and win games. But I guess he was okay, only a bit too slow still, however.

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01-01-2013, 01:40 PM
  #766
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Most of our players did not meet the expectations because the coaching staff did not provide a proper system and gameplan for these players to operate on. We've all seen how good our top guys can be when they play for their pro teams integrated with a good gameplan. It's a night and day difference compared to the mess we just witnessed.

Bottom line is, the players' inability to perform at their highest level derived from the fundamental errors in gameplan.

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01-01-2013, 03:06 PM
  #767
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However, the impact these tournaments may have on players' mentality, these are indeed heavy lessons learned. Quite many of this squad's players will be NT staples for the next decade and more, and every chance they get to learn what it takes to win in tight tournament-type hockey is too valuable to waste.
That is exactly the point I was trying to make. The men's team can't be successful if the youngsters have no idea what it takes to go far in high-level international tournaments.

One of the most important things at this point is to learn how to work together as a team, and how to work with these players in particular, because some of them will play on the NT together in the future. Some good examples are Määttä, Ristolainen, Teräväinen, Barkov and Armia (at least I hope so). Team work is probably the most important thing for Finns, because we'll always be just a little weaker in the individual talent department than the other big hockey countries. We can't afford to give them the team work advantage as well.

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01-01-2013, 09:57 PM
  #768
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IMO i think Aaltonen could have made good difference for this team. Järveläinen was so invincible basically in every line he was playing, Aaltonen would have been 100x better than him.

We just cant catch a break in junior hockey

I hope and believe this all changes soon, now lets go and kick Germany's ass!

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01-01-2013, 10:16 PM
  #769
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Also after seeing every game so far i can say that TT, Ristolainen and Nykopp have been the best ones for us. TT has magic quick hands and some ridiculous offensive skills on him. Ristolainen had 2 goals i believe and was very very safe defensively liked him. Nykopp had that great fighting spirit. Never quit up on play, is all heart and really likes to win. These guys showed up every day to play and were very consistant.

Määttä played solid i guess he wasnt on his best becose of illness? Anyways could have expect more offense on him.

Barkov was good. Nothing special offensively but remember hes 17 and has already had a monster year so far. Could have expected more from him thought, but im still impressed with his great defensive play.

Armia, and Salomäki were not on their level thats for sure. Armia was very selfish at times, but i guess thats the goalscorers way of play. He took some stupid penalties, played lazy at times but when we needed to score he would answare. I think he had some attitude problems and expected more from him but cant put the blame on one mans head.

Then theres the guys who really didnt do nothing on the teams advance. This list includes Auvinen, Järveläinen and Vainio. Vainio gave some horrible passes and rememinded me of Aki Berg on some times. Järveläinen i didnt now nothing about him, and he didnt really make nothing happen there. Would have liked Juuso Ikonen or Henrik Haapala over him, but well no can do now.

Could have expected more from Lehkonen. Didnt notice him from time to times at the ice. I think he will have a bigger role and more icetime on him next year.

Hännikäinen, Granlund, Pokka and Riikola were all decent. Nothing special but overall played and OK tournaments.

Korpisalo was good and very calm. Blaming him for the goals that were given by our lazy defense is absolutely insane.

Then theres Aaltonen. I really think he could have made a big difference for this team, but he had some bad luck thats for sure.


Cheers, and hope for the next years team to be much better and stronger.

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01-01-2013, 11:05 PM
  #770
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I want to see someone like Jortikka as the head coach next, but I guess he's probably spoiled with KHL money now and is only looking for another KHL contract. Summanen would be another one, but same thing as with Jortikka plus Kummola hates him. Can't go wrong with either one of these coaches. Discipline would definately be there.

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01-02-2013, 05:51 AM
  #771
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I want to see someone like Jortikka as the head coach next, but I guess he's probably spoiled with KHL money now and is only looking for another KHL contract.
Jortsu already was an U20 coach in 2009-10 season. Even though he did better than Rindell resultwise, the game still looked far from convincing. A regular QF exit that year.




Well, last year when I heard about Rindell, I wasn't happy, but considered him an improvement over Raipe regardless. I guess I could adopt a similar outlook, supposedly Jortikka would be an improvement over him. Baby steps...

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01-02-2013, 07:02 AM
  #772
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Isn't Marjamäki going to be coaching Kärpät next season so that might leave Aravirta available. He would be a good choice for the head coach IMO, at least the best out of the available candidates at this point.

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01-02-2013, 07:28 AM
  #773
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Isn't Marjamäki going to be coaching Kärpät next season so that might leave Aravirta available. He would be a good choice for the head coach IMO, at least the best out of the available candidates at this point.
I've heard rumors that Aravirta will be coaching Pelicans next season. But anyway, if there are no good coaches available full-time, I'd rather take someone proven part-time, than someone like Helminen.

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01-02-2013, 07:29 AM
  #774
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He would be a good choice for the head coach IMO, at least the best out of the available candidates at this point.
If we are to consider every Finnish coach who should be available, there are also two Karis, Jalonen and Heikkilä who would be even better picks, but it's hard to see this as a viable career step for 'em.

Pekka Rautakallio also popped to my mind.

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01-02-2013, 08:18 AM
  #775
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If we are to consider every Finnish coach who should be available, there are also two Karis, Jalonen and Heikkilä who would be even better picks, but it's hard to see this as a viable career step for 'em.

Pekka Rautakallio also popped to my mind.
For the two Karis, viable option could be one-year deal in U20 and then continue with men's team. But I'm not sure if either of them will accept that.

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