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Could Arcobello Be A Short Term Replacement For Gagner?

View Poll Results: Could Arcobello Be A Short Term Replacement For Gagner?
Yes, there's be no difference between their contributions 33 22.00%
Yes, we'd lose a little but it'd be worth it to fill other needs 28 18.67%
No, we'd lose a lot because Gagner is the much better player 75 50.00%
We shouldn't look at potentially downgrading any position so no 14 9.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-01-2013, 07:50 PM
  #1
nofool6110
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Could Arcobello Be A Short Term Replacement For Gagner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Firstly I don't see either as a long term fixture here so I'll get that out of the way. And while Gagner is bigger, Arco seems to have a bit of pitbull in him and seems pretty strong on his skates and scrappy. I'd prefer that we land a bigger/stronger 2C than either guy, but if Arco would give us even 80% of what Gagner does and we can get a useful piece for Gagner I'd be game.
Hmm...
Alright. I'll bite. It gives us something to do.

So, we trade Gagner (I'm not a fan of that. I'm a believer in HRH Snowpants. Makes me a dreamer).
What do our lines look like this season?
Or we don't trade Gagner. What do our lines look like?

Hall-Arco-Ebs Hall-RNH-Ebs
Yakupov-RNH-Hemsky Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky
Smyth-Horcoff-Jones Smyth-Horcoff-Jones
Petrell-Belanger-Eager Petrell-Belanger-Eager
Ext: Hartski, Hordi, Paajarvi

Smid-Petry Smid-Petry
Schultz^2 Schultz^2
Whitney - Addition on Blueline Whitney-Peckman/Potter

Dubs/Danis/Khabi

Phew, that took a lot of effort.
Which one looks like better? Note: the addition on the blueline is likely >> Potter/Peckman.

EDIT: I wonder if this is thread worthy.


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 01-09-2014 at 03:39 PM.
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01-01-2013, 10:00 PM
  #2
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Could Arcobello Be A Short Term Replacement For Gagner?

Would you be willing to roll the dice and move Gagner for grit with skill on the wing or a top 4 veteran defenseman and sink or swim with Arcobello for whatever games would be left in the '12-13 season?

The way that I see it neither would be long term fits here but Gagner would hold more trade value and then hopefully we could draft a center or make some kind of a trade to acquire a 2C that fits better for the Oilers.

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01-01-2013, 10:04 PM
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Why would we move what many consider to be a temporary whole filler to make room for another whole filler? I'm a firm believer that if we move Gagner, it had better be in a Gagner+ for Gagner's replacement type of deal.

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01-01-2013, 10:06 PM
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Definitely not.

But I don't see Gagner as a long-term fit, either.

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01-01-2013, 10:09 PM
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I think Arcobello could be a Marchant like third line center if he becomes a stud faceoff guy. 2nd line center might be pushing it.

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01-01-2013, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I think Arcobello could be a Marchant like third line center if he becomes a stud faceoff guy. 2nd line center might be pushing it.
What? You see him as a shutdown centre?

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01-01-2013, 10:22 PM
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No and it's completely ridiculous to think so. Gagner is a year younger and has spent 5 years in the NHL. Arcobello is STARTING to look good in the AHL and I'd say it's more because of who he plays with. Come on guys...

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01-01-2013, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I think Arcobello could be a Marchant like third line center if he becomes a stud faceoff guy. 2nd line center might be pushing it.
Arcobello is many things, tough on skates, tough as nails, but I don't think he's a grinding centre. Finesse #2 centre in Gagner's build.

He's going to be a downgrade. The question is, how much of a downgrade?
---
Here's my line in the sand - Arcobello is producing well with a healthy Eberle and Hall. BUT we haven't seen what a great (RNH) centre can do with those two, because when RNH left, Hall was only then getting his wheels back.

Who knows? Maybe even Lander or Horcoff () could produce with those two. Let's not forget this isn't actually the NHL, it's still the AHL. Not a knock on his gargantuan performance when this team is about as top heavy has anything in existence. It's just a little premature to sell off Gagner, who I'd argue has been given a little bit of a short stick in his time here yet has still produced at the NHL level, for a player that has yet to produce at the NHL level.

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01-01-2013, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoesoftheEighties View Post
No and it's completely ridiculous to think so. Gagner is a year younger and has spent 5 years in the NHL. Arcobello is STARTING to look good in the AHL and I'd say it's more because of who he plays with. Come on guys...
No freaking kidding. I can't even believe this needs to be explained. Remember Alexandre Giroux from just two years ago?

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01-01-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
What? You see him as a shutdown centre?
If he develops the right tools, yes. Let me explain. I don't think many people predicted Marchant would become an elite shut down center, and make no mistake about it, he was even after he left here. It wasn't because he was big or strong, it was because he was fast as all hell, tenacious, smart, and willing to get his nose dirty when he had to be. The only thing Arcobello seems to be lacking is the same explosive speed. A shut down center doesn't need to be huge, they need to be able to win faceoffs, cover their guys, play smart and do what it takes to win. If Arcobello can win 50% + of his faceoffs at the NHL eventually, I think he could fit the bill.

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01-01-2013, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
Arcobello is many things, tough on skates, tough as nails, but I don't think he's a grinding centre. Finesse #2 centre in Gagner's build.

He's going to be a downgrade. The question is, how much of a downgrade?
---
Here's my line in the sand - Arcobello is producing well with a healthy Eberle and Hall. BUT we haven't seen what a great (RNH) centre can do with those two, because when RNH left, Hall was only then getting his wheels back.

Who knows? Maybe even Lander or Horcoff () could produce with those two. Let's not forget this isn't actually the NHL, it's still the AHL. Not a knock on his gargantuan performance when this team is about as top heavy has anything in existence. It's just a little premature to sell off Gagner, who I'd argue has been given a little bit of a short stick in his time here yet has still produced at the NHL level, for a player that has yet to produce at the NHL level.
Todd Marchant wasn't a grinding center, nor are guys like Frans Nielsen, and he would be one of the best shut down centers in the league if he didn't have to play top 6 on the Islanders. Marchant had grinding wingers to do the grinding part, and Arcobello has the tools to become the same type of player.

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01-01-2013, 10:31 PM
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Okay so I voted "No, Gagner is the better player" however after thinking about it I could be okay with this depending on a couple things.

- Arco would need to play that physical, don't back down, pest type of game that we have seen him play in the AHL sometimes. He has good skills with the puck but we need more of that tenacity without it and at least Arco is willing to try.

-The return for Gagner would have to be worth it. I am one that thinks Gagner still has lots of value and I don't trade him for less than he is worth.

If an offer comes up that makes Gagner tradeable and Arco can step in I would be okay with that.

Although...who's to say Lander wouldn't look good between Hall and Eberle? Because he is already developing into that tough to play against player. Maybe he could put up the points there too.

I'm not completely against it. But I'm nit trading Gags unless it is worth it. Not just trading him so Arco can step in. Arco or someone can step in if an offer comes up that is too good to pass on.


Last edited by scid14: 01-01-2013 at 10:36 PM.
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01-01-2013, 10:31 PM
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I say no, unless Gagner gets us an overpayment in return. So for example, if we could add to Gagner for a Number 2-3 D, then I would be all for it. But thats not going to happen, which is why I'm not in.
I have been thinking that a guy like Orpik would turn our team into at least a playoff team. But Pens would never go for that, since they are set at center. Actually the more I think about it, no one has an excess of Good d-men. Maybe Washington with Carlson, Green and Alzner, but even that is a stretch.

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01-01-2013, 10:32 PM
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I feel like if gagner had eberle and hall as his linemates he'd be doing quite well himself he might even score 8 points in one game

Considering most of acrobellos points are assists, and im sure most of those to eberle or hall, i wouldn't go trading gagner and banking on this guy.

Not saying he shouldn't maybe get a callup at some point and see how he does based on his play in the AHL, but he is by no means ready for second line center duty in the NHL.

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01-01-2013, 10:41 PM
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Couldn't find the ******* NO option. We need a 5'8, 165 pound Center like we need a couple more Horcoffs.

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01-01-2013, 10:41 PM
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Arcobello right now is benefiting from playing with far and away the two best players in the AHL. Before he was put with them he was rather underwehlming.

He has some skill, but I don't see any chance of him being able to step in and contribute in a top 6 role in the NHL level. Is it difficult to imagine that if MA Pouliot was that center between these two that he wouldn't be putting up as good or better points as Arcobello? But if that was the case no one would be suggesting he can fill in a top 6 roll.

This team needs to move away from trading away proven NHL hockey players in order to make room for unproven talent. If this team trades away Sam Gagner it needs to be because we have someone who is better, not because we have a guy who could maybe step in and do the job about 1/2 as well. Trading Gagner and slotting Arcobello in is a good way to keep this team in the basement.

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01-01-2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Arcobello right now is benefiting from playing with far and away the two best players in the AHL. Before he was put with them he was rather underwehlming.

He has some skill, but I don't see any chance of him being able to step in and contribute in a top 6 role in the NHL level. Is it difficult to imagine that if MA Pouliot was that center between these two that he wouldn't be putting up as good or better points as Arcobello? But if that was the case no one would be suggesting he can fill in a top 6 roll.

This team needs to move away from trading away proven NHL hockey players in order to make room for unproven talent. If this team trades away Sam Gagner it needs to be because we have someone who is better, not because we have a guy who could maybe step in and do the job about 1/2 as well. Trading Gagner and slotting Arcobello in is a good way to keep this team in the basement.
I definitely agree. That was a good post. Just trying to think about the other side of it. M

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01-01-2013, 10:48 PM
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Arcobello can replace Gagner like Alexandre Giroux replaced Dustin Penner in '10/11.

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01-01-2013, 10:52 PM
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Also, depleting our centre depth isn't a good idea. It's likely our biggest drafting need. Arco is okay-decent insurance for an injury up front.

Imagine if we traded Gagner, Arco came in, did 2/3 the work, then he got injured.

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01-01-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Arcobello can replace Gagner like Alexandre Giroux replaced Dustin Penner in '10/11.
Agreed! Promoting Arcobello is in the Ryan Potulny school of thought.

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01-01-2013, 11:08 PM
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I have really liked Arcobello this year, but I'll reserve judgement til I see him in the NHL. I definitely wanna see him given a stint with good wingers-- he knows how to move the puck in the offensive zone.

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01-01-2013, 11:22 PM
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Arcobello is playing well with Hall and Ebs. No doubt about it. But Gagner is just a much better player.

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01-01-2013, 11:33 PM
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Would you be willing to roll the dice and move Gagner for grit with skill on the wing or a top 4 veteran defenseman and sink or swim with Arcobello for whatever games would be left in the '12-13 season?

The way that I see it neither would be long term fits here but Gagner would hold more trade value and then hopefully we could draft a center or make some kind of a trade to acquire a 2C that fits better for the Oilers.
1) If there is a new CBA, they should keep Gagner for the rest of the season and see what they've got with him. They could always move him in the off-season; due to his age, his value probably won't get substantially lower even if he has a subpar year. But if he has a solid year, they will be in a better position to move him in the summer, or maybe even decide to keep him, if he gells with the young core.
In the meantime, the team should roll with what they have. If it looks like they can push for a play-off spot, with the abundance of pending free agents on the market, it should not be too hard to acquire a veteran defenseman for a later round pick/lesser prospects at the trade deadline.

2) If they do move Gagner during the summer, there might be some good (stop-gap) centermen on the market come July 1. Capgeek currently lists the following centres as UFA in 2013:
Elias
Getzlaf
Connoly
Ribeiro
MacDonald
Antropov
Roy
Zajac
Weiss

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01-01-2013, 11:37 PM
  #24
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He's 5'9 165. Not really the kind of centre we need to replace Gagner with.

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01-01-2013, 11:40 PM
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Less than zero percent chance. There is no point, it makes no sense, and he's as small if not smaller than Gagner is. Fuhgeddaboutit.

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