I didn't think of it til after I read some of your posts, but having Voukun might be HUGE this year if they try to force a 50+ game season. We will be playing about 4 times a week almost and having a great back up is a definite need.
*As of today's roster, without regard to any potential moves made if/when the season starts*
I think the team has way too many question marks, especially on defense and in nets, to feel comfortable considering it a Cup contender.
As long as Sid, Geno, Letang and Co. are around, it'll be a playoff team, and likely a top-4 in the Conference team each and every season, but to get over the hump I'm just not sure the current defense corps is good enough, Fleury's still got to prove his latest playoff performance is a thing of the past, and I'd like to see a bit more secondary scoring added.
I think Tangradi will be more than a 4th liner. He should be given a spot in the top 9. I think Jeffrey is trade bait sooner or later. Don't see a role on the team for him unless he translates his game to wing.
If Martin is still a train wreck. I wouldn't mind seeing what Nisky can do with Letang. Plays a simple game, pretty reliable in his own end, likes playing the left side and succeeded before in a big role with a #1 D-man. Wouldn't be a bad stopgap option. And see if a guy like Despres can work with Orpik.
I see it the other way around. I think it's top-6 (or perhaps top-9) or bust with Tangradi, and he's not really contributing much if he's not scoring. With Jeffrey, however, if he's fully healed and his skating is still improved, then he is a very versatile player who can play PK, 2nd unit PP, add some legitimate offense to the 4th line, etc. He's played at a higher level and with more consistency than Tangradi ever has, so I think he has a better chance of sticking around.
As for the second point: I don't like Nisky with Letang. As bad as Orpik may be at times, he brings some size to that pair and covers more ice than Nisky. We know Niskanen was good last year and should continue to improve, but I don't believe he's a top-pairing Dman. Letang will play with Martin, Orpik, Despres or Dumoulin.
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Originally Posted by mpp9
Ill also add, if Calgary is one of those bubble teams that has a bad start, I think Shero is going after Iggy if available. We have assets that a team would covet in a rebuild.
No way. CGY are stupid and stubborn, and you'd have to really twist their arm to let Iggy go (i.e. an offer they can't refuse). Why make that trade when we have as good a chance as any team in the league to sign him as a UFA. If we trade for a forward, it will be a younger guy in more of a strait-up, smaller trade (i.e. Orpik for Setoguchi, etc.)
Malkin is gonna come out hot, he's tearing up the KHL. Crosby won't look like himself until the last half of the season, but he'll still get his points.
Other than the obvious defense/goaltending issues, I think the general lack of size on our team is a bit of a concern. We have a few bigger players, but overall we're pretty small - without having the exact numbers in front of me, I'd guess we're one of the smallest teams in the league. Crosby, Kunitz, Cooke, Kennedy, Dupuis, Vitale, Glass, Adams, Jeffrey - that's 3/4 of our forwards all 6'1" or smaller, and none of our defensemen are bigger than 6'2".
I don't want to be huge and plodding, but sometimes you need big bodies to help win those wars of attrition. We need to be able to lean on people from time to time.
i do not think the penguins are among the top contenders in the league... too many question marks.
is sid fully healthy and capable of playing at his pre-concussion level?
wtf was wrong with MAF in that flyers series? is he a subpar goalie?
who will replace staal's secondary scoring?
what blueliner can make MAF's life easier--> who can protect the crease and limit side-to-side chances?
does bylsma know his defensive scheme sucks?
they could win it all of course, but i doubt it.
All very valid points. I just look at the squad and see the line-up of forwards that is weaker than last season and a blue-line that is weaker than last season.
I don't the Pens contending unless there is a bit of luck along the way.
All very valid points. I just look at the squad and see the line-up of forwards that is weaker than last season and a blue-line that is weaker than last season.
I don't the Pens contending unless there is a bit of luck along the way.
We did shore up the goaltending though, and that was arguably our biggest letdown last year.
Unless some moves after the CBA is signed are note worthy, I don't see them as legitimate contenders.
It's going to take time for this team to gel after the changes with only half a season to do it.
The PP is an area of still having concerns trying to figure out the points, and trying to figure out how to realistically manage both Sid and Geno along the right boards. I'm still in favor of two solid PP units splitting them up having two full minutes of a top unit out there at all times.
Do you take a chance with Despres on the top unit or out source it via trade. There will be a trade but to what extent.
Martin & Engelland mop up when the PP is over.
They still will lack covering the net in front of either Fleury or Volkoun. Orpik is the only reliable candidate, and if I remember hearing right, had they known clutching and grabbing was gonna be let go so much they would have given Gill a lifetime contract. Whether they see someone in the ranks worthy of this role or if they outsource this problem via trade. Either way I see the defensive aspect being *more* of a need. At least until someone grows into it. We could use Gonchar but he'd be a liability on the back end in our zone.
I agree with, jmelm. Jeffrey over, Tangradi. You have your back up face-off guy who can play wing. Versatility over an underachiever.
The way WBS has been playing don't count on anyone down there making a difference. We know that Tangradi, Strait, and Bortuzzo along with some of the vets will have to pass through waivers. Right now I think they would all make it through.
Other than the obvious defense/goaltending issues, I think the general lack of size on our team is a bit of a concern. We have a few bigger players, but overall we're pretty small - without having the exact numbers in front of me, I'd guess we're one of the smallest teams in the league. Crosby, Kunitz, Cooke, Kennedy, Dupuis, Vitale, Glass, Adams, Jeffrey - that's 3/4 of our forwards all 6'1" or smaller, and none of our defensemen are bigger than 6'2".
I don't want to be huge and plodding, but sometimes you need big bodies to help win those wars of attrition. We need to be able to lean on people from time to time.
Don't the Pens play hockey instead of fight in the heavyweight division? I don't care how tall they are, how much they weigh, or what color they are. If they can play good hockey, that's all we need.
I can't recall the last hockey game that was decided by a height or hitting contest.
I see the problem with the Pens is opposite. WTF did they sign Tanner Glass, Asham, or McIntyre? A team of goons only puts you shorthanded and behind on the scoreboard. Pens need players who can control the play and be positive 5v5 players on the 3rd/4th lines. It is irrelevant how they accomplish this (via physicality or not), but paramount that they do.
I would like to see this half-assed lame 48-game schedule if only to speed up the transitional process for us. We're a team in transition here, hopefully sprinkling in new young talent to eventually get us back to near the top (at least).
Fleury remains a HUGE problem. When did he last play competitively? Are we more comfortable with him NOT playing during the lockout, or less? The defense also has to answer a ton of questions, as does the head coach and overall defensive system. Brandon Sutter will probably replace Staal's defensive ability quite nicely, but we don't know about the offense (not everyone can put up 50+ points with guys like Cooke and Kennedy).
With Crosby and Malkin, we'll ALWAYS have a chance. But we look less 'complete' than we have since Geno's first season, imo.
Don't the Pens play hockey instead of fight in the heavyweight division? I don't care how tall they are, how much they weigh, or what color they are. If they can play good hockey, that's all we need.
I can't recall the last hockey game that was decided by a height or hitting contest.
I see the problem with the Pens is opposite. WTF did they sign Tanner Glass, Asham, or McIntyre? A team of goons only puts you shorthanded and behind on the scoreboard. Pens need players who can control the play and be positive 5v5 players on the 3rd/4th lines. It is irrelevant how they accomplish this (via physicality or not), but paramount that they do.
You need to read critically. I said nothing about fighting or hitting.
Size can help you protect the puck and wear down your opponent by sheer volume. What we have is a collection of little buzzsaws who can create energy and chances off the rush, but who don't have the skill or size to protect the puck, maintain possession, and tire out the opposition.
If you don't think size plays a big part in those battles, then there's not much hope I can have a reasonable discussion with you on the subject. Not to say the recent Stanley Cup winner is always the best way to build a team, but watch how the Kings used their size on their playoff run this year.
And finally, Tanner Glass is anything but a goon. Read up on him.
I'm not saying he couldn't succeed in an offensive role. I think he would be an adequate replacement on the second line or guy on the second PP. However, he would best serve the team if he was used in the 3LC/First PK, 4-on-4 situations as well.
It wasn't just the Kings. The Bruins wore down teams the year before. It's definitely important in a long, drawn-out season. In a 48-game sprint, it may not be as much of a factor, though the playoffs would always have a lot of attrition.
I agree that our grinding game would be more effective with more size. Also, more youth, as some of our best energy grinders are starting to have some mileage on the odometer, namely Cooke, Adams, Kunitz and Dupuis.
It wasn't just the Kings. The Bruins wore down teams the year before. It's definitely important in a long, drawn-out season. In a 48-game sprint, it may not be as much of a factor, though the playoffs would always have a lot of attrition.
I agree that our grinding game would be more effective with more size. Also, more youth, as some of our best energy grinders are starting to have some mileage on the odometer, namely Cooke, Adams, Kunitz and Dupuis.
And it's not like we need a whole team of giants - we just need better balance. As it stands, the only regular forwards we have over 6'1" are Geno, Sutter, Neal, and Tangradi.
I'd like to see the likes of TK and Adams replaced by big guys in the forward ranks. Neither play an essential role at this point.
Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 01-02-2013 at 09:28 AM.
Tangradi fits what we need on the wing quite nicely. Size, net presence and puck possession. Unless Cooke gets moved up with Geno or we make a trade, Id argue Tangradi should start in the top 6.
Martin and Despres are the big question marks this season for me. If they both are effective for us, we're in a good position to contend. We'll have a solid top 4 and a trade piece to acquire a forward.
My top two would be Sid, Pascal and Chris. The second is Geno, James Neil and Tangradi.
I'd like to see Tangradi and Neal with Malkin, and Kunitz and Dupuis with Crosby. Sid needs at least one of Kunitz and Neal. Plus, Tangradi has had past chemistry with Malkin. So he could fill the spot that Kunitz previously held.
