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2014 Olympics and the NHL (UPD: NHL, NHLPA, IIHF, IOC meeting this week)

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Old
01-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #51
GKJ
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The NHL is going to play the same game with the IOC that the PA is playing with them. NBC and the IOC want the NHL there more than the NHL wants to be there. The league doesn't shorten the season in Olympic years, so they don't lose any money on it. The only way it hurts the league is from fans griping that it compromises the season (which, again, it doesn't since they don't shorten the season), and if any players get hurt. Most players show up to it hurt anyways. They're going to get their cut and show up.

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01-01-2013, 02:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
That simply isnt true. Now, granted there arent any "appearance" fee's for showing up & competing, but most receive training stipends from there various sports federations, including in a lot of instances financial reward for Medaling, in some cases mid six figure bonuses. Then theres their individual sponsorship deals, be it Nike, Adidas, Puma, Ski Rossignol, Dynamic' or whomever; again, 6 figure cash bonus if you Medal; Bronze, Silver or Gold, sliding scale, individual or team. Then theres the direct financial gain one can capitalize on through corporate sponsorships if successful, including appointments to various corporate boards, well paid public speaking gigs and so on & so forth.

Absolutely nothing "amateur" about the Olympics with the exception of the fact that the IOC itself treats it as such, pocketing billions in broadcasting & sponsorship revenues themselves without paying a dime for the talent, which in the case of the NHL & the rest of the pro leagues from which talent is sourced, not a sou paid in compensation for shutting down their businesses for 10-12 days during peak season every 4yrs. And this is supposed to be accepted, that its "good for the game", the IOC doubling if not trebling the money in broadcasting & sponsorship fee's that they'd normally get without NHL player participation. Its a con. Sure the hockeys great, but why should the NHL make a "gift" of hundreds of millions when they could create & own a "World Cup" or whatever themselves? I would actually prefer to watch NCAA, CIAU & amateur status athletes playing hockey for Team's Sweden, Canada etc at a Winter Olympics than the pro's; the pro's returning to the Canada Cup type formats.
I just meant it in the sense that the athletes aren't paid by, say the IOC, to compete in the Olympics. But yes, I do agree with what you say

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01-01-2013, 03:33 PM
  #53
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It doesn't matter that those countries wont have their stars. All that matters is college players having the opportunity to win gold. This gives them something to look forward to and strive for. Let the pros have their bloated paychecks, give the Olympic dream back to the kids where it belongs.
That's my point who would the college players be playing against? Russia's best are now playing in the NHL, in 1980 that wasn't the case.

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01-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #54
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That's my point who would the college players be playing against? Russia's best are now playing in the NHL, in 1980 that wasn't the case.
Ya, its a conundrum. The cities bidding for the Winter Games, the costs associated with just that stage alone, and then lets say you win the bid, well, you really need the "glamour" events with the "best in the world" competing in Hockey (along with Figure Skating etc but thats still pretty much a given, those athletes will show) in order to maximize sponsorship, broadcast & ticket sales revenues to cover costs. Pull the NHL players, the elites from the KHL, the Swiss, Finnish & other Euro Leagues, youve got a problem. Im not adverse to seeing the pro's competing, however, the IOC's simply got to address the issue of an equitable financial agreement with the NHL & the rest of the leagues if they want their participation after Sochi, and theyd better get it done fast because the subsequent Winter Game bidders & hosts are going to have to know what their dealing with, what theyve got to sell.

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01-01-2013, 05:06 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
It will legitimately achieve Gary's goal of growing the game, perhaps attracting Asian and European markets to NHL viewing.

Gary's dream is not to grow the game. His dream is making the 30 owners, and particularly the US based one's, richer. That is his sole m.o. Anyone else who thinks otherwise is severely deluding themselves.


Last edited by Killion: 01-02-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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01-01-2013, 07:56 PM
  #56
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Gary's dream is not to grow the game. His dream is making the 30 owners, and particularly the US based one's, richer. That is his sole m.o. Anyone else who thinks otherwise is severely deluding themselves.
If that was a case he'd have teams in Hamilton and Quebec already, and he wouldn't be waisting 25 million dollars a year in Phoenix. He stated himself that's why he put teams there in the first place, did he not?

Gary believes he can make them richer by growing the game in the south.

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01-01-2013, 08:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
That's my point who would the college players be playing against? Russia's best are now playing in the NHL, in 1980 that wasn't the case.
Russia's best non-NHL players.....just like in 1980.

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01-01-2013, 09:10 PM
  #58
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Russia's best non-NHL players.....just like in 1980.
Yeah ok what was there in 1980, one defector?

Then again maybe I'm the one mistaken and the feat wasn't that big a deal since the best Europeans and Russians were playing in the NHL anyway.

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01-01-2013, 09:34 PM
  #59
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Russia's best non-NHL players.....just like in 1980.
Yes but that's the thing. Would the KHL, SEL, etc be sending players? Is it just the NHL who would back out or is it all of the leagues?

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01-01-2013, 09:41 PM
  #60
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Yes but that's the thing. Would the KHL, SEL, etc be sending players? Is it just the NHL who would back out or is it all of the leagues?
It doesn't matter if they do, because unlike the past their very best now play in the NHL. So a U S college win again would never be as great.

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01-01-2013, 09:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CanadianPirate View Post
Yes but that's the thing. Would the KHL, SEL, etc be sending players? Is it just the NHL who would back out or is it all of the leagues?
Rene Fasel is head of the IIHF which oversee's the European Elite Leagues to a large extent, dealing with everything from Transfer Agreements to Standardization, World Championship Tournaments & so on. The KHL though somewhat autonomous does work within its boundaries to a certain extent, however, heres the problem; Rene Fasel sits on the IOC Executive Committee as well, and is their Charge de Affair for Hockey and is therefore double dealing, has a conflict of interest. If the NHL doesnt "play along", he could make life very difficult for them when it comes to acquiring/signing talent through the Draft, through transfer agreements and so on.

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01-01-2013, 10:13 PM
  #62
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Ya, its a conundrum. The cities bidding for the Winter Games, the costs associated with just that stage alone, and then lets say you win the bid, well, you really need the "glamour" events with the "best in the world" competing in Hockey (along with Figure Skating etc but thats still pretty much a given, those athletes will show) in order to maximize sponsorship, broadcast & ticket sales revenues to cover costs. Pull the NHL players, the elites from the KHL, the Swiss, Finnish & other Euro Leagues, youve got a problem. Im not adverse to seeing the pro's competing, however, the IOC's simply got to address the issue of an equitable financial agreement with the NHL & the rest of the leagues if they want their participation after Sochi, and theyd better get it done fast because the subsequent Winter Game bidders & hosts are going to have to know what their dealing with, what theyve got to sell.
The NBA, European basketball leagues, football leagues, volleyball leagues, handball leagues etc. have never been compensated in any way nor will the NHL. European leagues weren't compensated in any way pre-NHL Olympics either because they don't have an issue with the Olympics. They know it's best marketing window for their sport.

When it comes to making footage available from the Olympics, national broadcasters have those rights and every's been able to access them via their websites. I also notices that IOC's Youtube channel (simply called "olympics") has a lot of events from the games.

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01-01-2013, 11:33 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
The idea was to heal the world from materialism through sublime if not sacred competition for higher goods like honor.
Uhhh - nope.

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Originally Posted by kdb209
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
The Olympics are never going back to being an amateur event... if the NHL stopped participating, the US and Canada would just send their WJC teams to compete against European men.

And amateurism in the Olympics always was a bit of a farce, based on elitist attitudes about gentlemen athletes that were out of date by the end of World War I. All it does it put smaller nations without wealthy school systems or army athletes who are given free training at a severe disadvantage.
Yup.

C&P from an earlier Olympic thread:

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Then you disagree with de Coubertin's ideals from the late 19th century.
Ahh yes, the ideals that athletics should be the province of the idle rich - to keep out that working class riff-raff - despite the fact that the athletes in Ancient Greece were quite professional, competing in circuits of athletic competitions (including the Olympics) that paid handsome prizes - and that the Greek etymology of the word Athlete is "one who competes for prizes".

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01-02-2013, 12:18 AM
  #64
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Not a fan of NHL players in the Olympics...I always thought the Olympics was about amateur athletes, not paid professionals...?
This stopped being possible as soon as the Soviet union became a superpower. Restricting Olympic participation to amateurs gives countries with planned economies a huge advantage in that they can give their best athletes military sinecures and then claim that they are not professional. That's how the Soviet Union became dominant in international hockey and basketball without ever actually being the best in the world at either sport. Phony amateurs.

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01-02-2013, 01:00 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
N0 wai dude: Nothing beats the best of the best tournament that is the Olympics.

In last year's final the top 3 point getters and top 5 goal scorers weren't even playing.
Same with the Olympics. Only one of the top 5 point getters was in the finals.

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01-02-2013, 06:04 AM
  #66
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People who argue the Olympics were originally intended for amateurs should realise NCAA players are not amateurs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The NBA, European basketball leagues, football leagues, volleyball leagues, handball leagues etc. have never been compensated in any way nor will the NHL. European leagues weren't compensated in any way pre-NHL Olympics either because they don't have an issue with the Olympics. They know it's best marketing window for their sport.
The NHL does not contribute anything to the Olympics anyway. Players are available during the Games as per the contract they have negotiated with their employer. There is simply nothing for the IOC to "compensate".

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01-02-2013, 08:09 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CanadianPirate View Post
Yes but that's the thing. Would the KHL, SEL, etc be sending players? Is it just the NHL who would back out or is it all of the leagues?
As far as I'm concerned, all those other leagues can act as they please. My only concern is the NHL. I don't want them sending players to the Olympics. I'd rather have amateurs, college kids get the opportunity of a lifetime.

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01-02-2013, 08:10 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
People who argue the Olympics were originally intended for amateurs should realise NCAA players are not amateurs.



The NHL does not contribute anything to the Olympics anyway. Players are available during the Games as per the contract they have negotiated with their employer. There is simply nothing for the IOC to "compensate".
How so? As far as I know, NCAA players do not get paid to play hockey for their school. Scholarships are scholarships, not paychecks, if that's what you're referring to. And not all NCAA players get scholarships.

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01-02-2013, 08:42 AM
  #69
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Same with the Olympics. Only one of the top 5 point getters was in the finals.
What "finals"? It's a one game winner take-all. They were all in the tournament.

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01-02-2013, 09:05 AM
  #70
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How so? As far as I know, NCAA players do not get paid to play hockey for their school. Scholarships are scholarships, not paychecks, if that's what you're referring to.
Scholarships are scholarships and make the players non-amateurs, very much like the Soviets were really state professionals, not amateurs, despite not getting paid to play hockey either.

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01-02-2013, 10:12 AM
  #71
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Scholarships are scholarships and make the players non-amateurs, very much like the Soviets were really state professionals, not amateurs, despite not getting paid to play hockey either.
Incorrect.

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01-02-2013, 10:14 AM
  #72
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The NHL does not contribute anything to the Olympics anyway. Players are available during the Games as per the contract they have negotiated with their employer. There is simply nothing for the IOC to "compensate".
Im afraid I cant agree with you on this one jekoh. The NHL does in fact make a substantial contribution to the Olympics' through the CBA in agreeing to release their players/employee's to participate, shutting down & suspending operations during "high season", extending an already (IMO) far too long of a season with playoffs running into July, turning off more than just a few long-term & casual fans in the process every 4 years. In addition to the suspension of games & thus revenue streams, its "product", namely the talent itself, runs the risk of both injury & most assuredly burnout.

The IOC meanwhile, along with the host cities, have come to rely upon pure-professional participation, which of course demands a higher price for just about everything, from sponsorship & broadcasting fee's, to merchandising sales and event tickets. The IOC should IMO be compensating the NHL & the NHLPA, as without their participation they wouldnt be able to charge the premiums they can. The Winter Games are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of the Worlds population, games played by the primarily wealthy Northern states & nations exclusively. The Summer Games on the other hand are inclusive, track, field, court, pool, you name it, and an entirely different animal.

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01-02-2013, 10:56 AM
  #73
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Uhhh - nope.
It actually was one of the ideas of the original Olympic movement. And I don't see how the posts you quote are supposed to affect my statement.

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01-02-2013, 11:11 AM
  #74
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Incorrect.
Such a compelling argument

Care to explain the difference, then?

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01-02-2013, 11:38 AM
  #75
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Russia's best non-NHL players.....just like in 1980.
Were there even Russians in the NHL in 1980? I don't believe there were; and if there were, they had to defect to get here. Now, most of Russia's elite players are in the NHL, as are all of the best Swedes, Czechs, Slovaks, Swiss, Finns, and I dare say the Germans and Belarusians, as well. That's eight, plus the United States and Canada, meaning the top ten hockey countries in the world have their best players tied up in the NHL.

I just don't understand why you want to throw away the best and most intense hockey competition in the world for the off chance at a feelgood story. The Olympics should be a competition for the world's finest athletes in its given sports, not the world's finest athletes under a certain age our outside of a specific group. Who cares if those athletes are professional?

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