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D Seth Jones - Portland Winterhawks (2013 Draft)

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Old
01-01-2013, 07:15 PM
  #676
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01-01-2013, 09:31 PM
  #677
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Jones is a mire explosive skater than either Meyers or Pietrangelo. He cuts left and right as good as any player in the NHL. His smarts (you can tell hes been well coached, he makes plays elite players make) are also off the charts.

Id take him first. Thats a package you cant find often. Its a shame not enough people are appreciating the job hes doing. Hes a dominating force at ending forechecks and transitions. Trouba maybe hitting more and scoring more but Jones is by far and away the best player on that team.

The only weakness he has is when Finland came at him physically he tried to overpower them with his upperbody. Finlamd countered by getting low and pivoting away from him. He didnt let them through but hes gotta use his legs. Also Strome I think got him good but thatll happen. Overall he was a monster in this tourny.

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01-01-2013, 09:48 PM
  #678
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Best player on team USA? Absolutely not. He was pretty bad against Russia and Canada. A ton of bad turnovers but I see the potential for a great player.

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01-02-2013, 12:29 AM
  #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Who is the best comparison for Jones? Larry Robinson perhaps?
He has a Larry Robinson type of presence out there but I think that he has a better offense skill set than Robinson had.

We are not going to see Seth score as many points as Robinson because the league has changed that much but from start to finish Seth will have Robinson type of presence on the ice in the NHL at both ends of the ice.

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01-02-2013, 12:40 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, actually, I've spent most of the thread without referring to stats at all - just observation. It only made sense to refer to offensive numbers at that point because of the introduction of the idea of "offensive acumen". People farthest away geographically also have an easier time avoiding the Kool-aid in the water supply, btw. But backing up, how little skill do you think I'm giving him credit for? Does my not considering him the best choice for 1st overall somehow equate to under-rating him?

Also, Jones played a 50+ game schedule with the US Development squad and 20 more games in USHL matches last year. How different is that, really, from 60 games in the OHL? Jones probably ended up with more experience against older and stronger players in the process given games against NCAA opponents, and how do we then weigh/compare how their environments may or may not have contributed to the strengths in their game today - if one is supposed to be deemed advantageous over the other?

But rest assured, if he has made as significant an improvement as you suggest, I won't turn a blind eye to it.
Konk brings up a good point and there is something else to consider as well, their roles on the team.

Portland is a powerhouse with 2 older Dmen who were drafted already getting quality PP time and Seth's role is more on the defensive side as opposing teams try to keep their best players away from him when they can.

Pietro was a great prospect in his draft year but Jones is better at the same stages of their careers IMO.

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01-02-2013, 06:34 AM
  #681
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Jones is still pretty raw and he has been caught trying to do too much at times.

That said, his 1-on-1 defensive play is absurdly good, he can be physically dominant at times, and he is extremely effective at thwarting the forecheck. Also breaks the puck out very well with a solid first pass and has shown elite skating ability for a player his size and age. Works the blueline very well and projects to be a more than capable PP QB. The way he plays the game as an offensive defenseman reminds me a lot of Dustin Byfuglien, though Jones's defensive ability and his overall skill level are higher.

Jones still has a lot of work to do on his defensive zone positioning and risk taking. He can generally make up for it now but at the next level he could be in for a rude awakening. I still think he's got the highest ceiling of anyone in this draft.

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01-02-2013, 09:29 AM
  #682
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If Edm were picking first in 2013, I think it's obvious they'd take Jones. It will be interesting to see who's picking first this year and their needs....For what it's worth, I think so far at the WJC Jones has outplayed NM, but Drouin has outplayed both of them, but, the WJC is just one evaluation point out of about 50!

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01-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #683
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If my team had a top pick, I wouldn't want them touching this guy with a ten foot pole. Absolutely brutal WJC, not necessarily just statistically, but consistently out of position offensively, refuses to take the body defensively and seems to struggle skating with the skill players on the international size ice. This tournament has been a red flag to me. Beating up 16 year olds that are half your size in Portland all season is one thing. IMO his weaknesses are being exposed big time against the world class talent.

Teams with top five draft picks should take one of the great center prospects available despite their needs and take a project guy with upside like Bowey, etc... early to mid second round.

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01-02-2013, 11:20 AM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbalbi View Post
If my team had a top pick, I wouldn't want them touching this guy with a ten foot pole. Absolutely brutal WJC, not necessarily just statistically, but consistently out of position offensively, refuses to take the body defensively and seems to struggle skating with the skill players on the international size ice. This tournament has been a red flag to me. Beating up 16 year olds that are half your size in Portland all season is one thing. IMO his weaknesses are being exposed big time against the world class talent.

Teams with top five draft picks should take one of the great center prospects available despite their needs and take a project guy with upside like Bowey, etc... early to mid second round.
Well, if that is the case, McKinnon shouldn't go Top 5 either.

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01-02-2013, 11:23 AM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbalbi View Post
If my team had a top pick, I wouldn't want them touching this guy with a ten foot pole. Absolutely brutal WJC, not necessarily just statistically, but consistently out of position offensively, refuses to take the body defensively and seems to struggle skating with the skill players on the international size ice. This tournament has been a red flag to me. Beating up 16 year olds that are half your size in Portland all season is one thing. IMO his weaknesses are being exposed big time against the world class talent.

Teams with top five draft picks should take one of the great center prospects available despite their needs and take a project guy with upside like Bowey, etc... early to mid second round.
If you replaced Portland with Halifax, similar things could be said about MacKinnon.

Anyways, Jones hasn't played near as bad as you said he has

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01-02-2013, 11:24 AM
  #686
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MacKinnon hasn't had nearly enough icetime to show his stuff, though. And also, forwards are usually safer picks than dmen. I go with the bpa philosophy. Team needs don't matter when you're picking at #1.

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01-02-2013, 11:24 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by jbalbi View Post
Teams with top five draft picks should take one of the great center prospects available despite their needs and take a project guy with upside like Bowey, etc... early to mid second round.
I don't see the upside in Bowey at all, he seems to consistently make poor decisions. I do agree with you that it would be nice to see a more physical Seth Jones

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01-02-2013, 11:33 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
MacKinnon hasn't had nearly enough icetime to show his stuff, though. And also, forwards are usually safer picks than dmen. I go with the bpa philosophy. Team needs don't matter when you're picking at #1.
They do if players are close in skill/upside, which MacKinnon and Jones are. Jones arguably has higher upside because fewer defensemen are as high end as Jones potential is, while there is comparatively many high end forwards like MacKinnon. Got to remember MacKinnon is probably on Hall's level, not on the level of a Tavares or Stamkos.

Anyways, MacKinnon hasn't impressed in the ice time he's got, he does a fancy play everytime but he's not generating anything, he's not carrying the puck well. He's not going to get a lot of minutes playing like that.

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01-02-2013, 11:54 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by sbtatter View Post
I don't see the upside in Bowey at all, he seems to consistently make poor decisions. I do agree with you that it would be nice to see a more physical Seth Jones
He just needs to get better with passing. Doesn't quite get enough on the long passes up ice.

He's solid in his zones, just not great at transitioning.

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01-02-2013, 01:00 PM
  #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbalbi View Post
If my team had a top pick, I wouldn't want them touching this guy with a ten foot pole. Absolutely brutal WJC, not necessarily just statistically, but consistently out of position offensively, refuses to take the body defensively and seems to struggle skating with the skill players on the international size ice. This tournament has been a red flag to me. Beating up 16 year olds that are half your size in Portland all season is one thing. IMO his weaknesses are being exposed big time against the world class talent.

Teams with top five draft picks should take one of the great center prospects available despite their needs and take a project guy with upside like Bowey, etc... early to mid second round.
Lol five games and already professional scout. After that you lost all credibility stating that Jones and Bowey are in the same category. which 100% of NHL scouts would diisagree with you.

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01-02-2013, 01:10 PM
  #691
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TSN commentators today were saying that they think Jones is the clear number one at this point.

Not saying I do or don't agree, but that's the first time I've heard it from such a prominent group of reporters.

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01-02-2013, 01:21 PM
  #692
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When people say he has struggled in all aspects I feel like I must be watching different games.

Jones is on a completely different level that his teammates, he is making plays on the blueline that no other player in the tournament will even try.

For as great a story as Drouin's success at this tournament has been, Jones' on ice presence and two way dominance is a step above (and I even admit he has over handled the puck at times).

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01-02-2013, 01:28 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
When people say he has struggled in all aspects I feel like I must be watching different games.

Jones is on a completely different level that his teammates, he is making plays on the blueline that no other player in the tournament will even try.

For as great a story as Drouin's success at this tournament has been, Jones' on ice presence and two way dominance is a step above (and I even admit he has over handled the puck at times).
Agreed on all accounts, I would say that he is a bit too soft in front of the net as well. Though excluding the WJC, he has been much more impressive than MacKinnon.

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01-02-2013, 02:25 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
TSN commentators today were saying that they think Jones is the clear number one at this point.

Not saying I do or don't agree, but that's the first time I've heard it from such a prominent group of reporters.
It's not that surprising. We haven't had a defensemen this good be draft elligible for a long time, possibly since Pronger and while MacKinnon and the other elite forwards are strong, but they've not exceptional first overall picks (Think Steven Stamkos, John Tavares and Sidney Crosby), they'd just be "average" ones (Think Taylor Hall and Patrick Kane).

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01-02-2013, 02:40 PM
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
TSN commentators today were saying that they think Jones is the clear number one at this point.

Not saying I do or don't agree, but that's the first time I've heard it from such a prominent group of reporters.
I'm not surprised. He hasn't had the exposure that MacKinnon has. The more people that watch him play, the more people will be saying the same thing. He truly is a special kind of player.

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01-02-2013, 02:56 PM
  #696
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still mackinnon for me

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01-02-2013, 03:06 PM
  #697
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How does Ekblad stack up to Jones?

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01-02-2013, 03:10 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
How does Ekblad stack up to Jones?
He doesn't for me.

Not as mobile, less offensively skilled, but more physical.

I wouldn't say they are comparable players.

Jones 'drives' his teams offense and transition, Ekblad from what I've seen is more of a contributor than a driving force.

Ekblad is pretty dang good in his own end though. Much more simplicity, where jones makes plays that wow.

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01-02-2013, 03:15 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
It's not that surprising. We haven't had a defensemen this good be draft elligible for a long time, possibly since Pronger and while MacKinnon and the other elite forwards are strong, but they've not exceptional first overall picks (Think Steven Stamkos, John Tavares and Sidney Crosby), they'd just be "average" ones (Think Taylor Hall and Patrick Kane).
No no no, they definitely are exceptional. Mackinnon is on that Stamkos - Tavares tier in terms of ability and tools. Drouin is comparable to Pat Kane in terms of what he offers, and Barkov is at an elite level also (think thornton type prospect). I would argue that Lindholm/Monahan are similar in ability to the top of the 2006 draft class comparable to Toews/Backstrom; with Monahan being a Toews-ish player and Lindholm being a more original talent but still in that tier of prospect. This is an outstanding draft class.

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01-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #700
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Originally Posted by jbalbi View Post
If my team had a top pick, I wouldn't want them touching this guy with a ten foot pole. Absolutely brutal WJC, not necessarily just statistically, but consistently out of position offensively, refuses to take the body defensively and seems to struggle skating with the skill players on the international size ice. This tournament has been a red flag to me. Beating up 16 year olds that are half your size in Portland all season is one thing. IMO his weaknesses are being exposed big time against the world class talent.

Teams with top five draft picks should take one of the great center prospects available despite their needs and take a project guy with upside like Bowey, etc... early to mid second round.
Total facepalm of a post.

1. Your talking about a horribly small sample size, with him trying to match up against the elite players in the world who are already older than him in almost all cases.

2. Beating up on 16 year old's in Portland? Jones is consistently matched against other teams top players...who are aged 16-20...

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