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2014 Olympics and the NHL (UPD: NHL, NHLPA, IIHF, IOC meeting this week)

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01-02-2013, 11:59 AM
  #76
Xref
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Such a compelling argument

Care to explain the difference, then?
What do the IOC rules say about scholarshipped athletes?

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01-02-2013, 12:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
The NHL does in fact make a substantial contribution to the Olympics' through the CBA in agreeing to release their players/employee's to participate,
That's something they agree on with their employees, not with the IOC. They're entitled to nothing else than whatever they could get in exchange from said employees.

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
In addition to the suspension of games & thus revenue streams, its "product", namely the talent itself, runs the risk of both injury & most assuredly burnout.
Again, in the event that the players and the NHL do indeed come to an agreement, any burnout resulting from the Olympics will be part of that agreement. The NHL will already have been compensated by the players agreeing to lower their demands or giving in on something else.

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
The IOC should IMO be compensating the NHL & the NHLPA, as without their participation they wouldnt be able to charge the premiums they can.
There is no participation from the NHL. It is foolish to expect compensation if another company hires your employees at a time when not only are they under no obligation to work for you but your own contract specifically allows said company to hire them.

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01-02-2013, 12:04 PM
  #78
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Selifishly, I hope they don't. If we really want an international cup, I hope they do it before the season like the old Canada/World cups.

I understand why people want the NHL to go to the olympics, I just don't really care about that tournament... I'd rather see an unbroken NHL season.

The way the world cup of football (soccer) is done, the national teams are constantly playing together... every few weeks/months they have a game as a team... the Olympic hockey stuff just feels manufactured. You throw a bunch of players together, albeit very good ones, and say play. As someone else said, a well structured/practiced NHL team full of average NHL players could probably play against the champion and compete based on systems and chemistry.

If they reduced the NHL/Euro seasons and had international qualifiers every few weeks, I might feel these international tournaments were more relevant, but that ain't gonna happen.


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01-02-2013, 12:06 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Were there even Russians in the NHL in 1980? I don't believe there were; and if there were, they had to defect to get here. Now, most of Russia's elite players are in the NHL, as are all of the best Swedes, Czechs, Slovaks, Swiss, Finns, and I dare say the Germans and Belarusians, as well. That's eight, plus the United States and Canada, meaning the top ten hockey countries in the world have their best players tied up in the NHL.

I just don't understand why you want to throw away the best and most intense hockey competition in the world for the off chance at a feelgood story. The Olympics should be a competition for the world's finest athletes in its given sports, not the world's finest athletes under a certain age our outside of a specific group. Who cares if those athletes are professional?
I'd rather watch the best amateur hockey players in the world compete against each other, and gain that invaluable experience. I believe in growing the sport, and I believe having college kids playing in the Olympics goes a long way towards that goal. The success of the 1980 team had a profound impact on hockey development and awareness in the US. I'll ask: why take that away?

Besides, if all these countries have their best players in the NHL as you say, then I can watch them play in the NHL. Why do I need to watch them play in the Olympics too?

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01-02-2013, 12:08 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
What do the IOC rules say about scholarshipped athletes?
'Nothing' would be my guess, meaning they allow them, but how is that of any relevance when they allow professionals?


Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I just don't understand why you want to throw away the best and most intense hockey competition in the world for the off chance at a feelgood story. The Olympics should be a competition for the world's finest athletes in its given sports, not the world's finest athletes under a certain age our outside of a specific group. Who cares if those athletes are professional?
Things should never be any different from what they were when I was a child.


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Originally Posted by Xref View Post
I'd rather watch the best amateur hockey players in the world compete against each other, and gain that invaluable experience. I believe in growing the sport, and I believe having college kids playing in the Olympics goes a long way towards that goal. The success of the 1980 team had a profound impact on hockey development and awareness in the US. I'll ask: why take that away?
It had a profound impact because they beat the best professional team in the world, not because they were college players. I mean college players beating other college players would hardly have been noteworthy.


Last edited by jekoh: 01-02-2013 at 12:17 PM.
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01-02-2013, 12:09 PM
  #81
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The Winter Games are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of the Worlds population, games played by the primarily wealthy Northern states & nations exclusively. The Summer Games on the other hand are inclusive, track, field, court, pool, you name it, and an entirely different animal.
Majority of the Northen hemisphere is very interested in them and that is enough.

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01-02-2013, 12:15 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
I'd rather watch the best amateur hockey players in the world compete against each other, and gain that invaluable experience. I believe in growing the sport, and I believe having college kids playing in the Olympics goes a long way towards that goal. The success of the 1980 team had a profound impact on hockey development and awareness in the US. I'll ask: why take that away?
Not sure US hockey or Hockey Canada would be thrilled about sending college players against the European pros..

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01-02-2013, 12:17 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
'Nothing' would be my guess, meaning they allow them, but how is that of any relevance when they allow professionals?

Things should never be any different from what they were when I was a child.
Is that what you got from my posts? OK then.

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01-02-2013, 12:21 PM
  #84
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The last Olympic hockey tournament was very entertaining and really ignited hockey interest across all markets. I think the league is missing out on a promotional vehicle if they oppose player participation. Here in the States, it was huge, everyone in my office was sneaking down to the coffee shop to watch the games.

As for the "amatuer" only argument for the Olympics, very few Olympic athletes can be called amtuers, in this age of consumerism and marketing endorsements. Its very naive imo to seriously object on those grounds.

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01-02-2013, 01:33 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
That's something they agree on with their employees, not with the IOC. They're entitled to nothing else than whatever they could get in exchange from said employees.
Ya, solid arguments jekoh, and I do understand & empathize with your own & many others perspective on the matter. Respectfully disagree though. Remember, what fun would life be if we all just agreed on everything?

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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Majority of the Northen hemisphere is very interested in them and that is enough.
Ya, more than enough of an excuse to absolutely print money. No problem with that concept whatsoever, and I quite enjoy the Winter Games, all of the Nordic & Alpine disciplines. Wasnt until the moder era that they separated the calendar years of both Summer & Winter Games, a dictate made by sponsors & broadcasters they were only to happy to accommodate. Thing is, how are you supposed to maintain the Olympic ideal of "inclusiveness" when the entire southern hemisphere of the planet is "excluded"? ... Its a flat out cash grab. No if's, and's or but's about it. So if you want pro's participating, be they from the Swiss, Finnish, Swedish, British, Italian or whatever other professional hockey league guys are coming from, including of course the NHL & KHL, insofar as Im concerned, youd better be sharing the wealth. Otherwise, how about every single country participating simply sends their top University or College squads, or a team of All Stars from the halls of academia by country? And no Ringers allowed.

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01-02-2013, 01:45 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post

It had a profound impact because they beat the best professional team in the world, not because they were college players. I mean college players beating other college players would hardly have been noteworthy.
Well you're half right, The NHL didn't send players in 1980 so the U S team didn't beat Canada's best. They did beat the best from overseas though. So that was great. Although I guess we could say Sweden didn't have the services of Salming.

If it was just amateurs it would be the same as the WJC's and we already do that every year.


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01-02-2013, 01:59 PM
  #87
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Not sure US hockey or Hockey Canada would be thrilled about sending college players against the European pros..
Why not? I was just told that the best Europeans are in the NHL. So what's the issue?

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01-02-2013, 02:32 PM
  #88
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The difference between doing the Olympics and Canada Cap (or whatever), is that Canada Cups and World Championships and World Juniors and the like are essentially still for real hockey fans. The Olympics are not - they are mainstream, it's a difference audience, and for once the sport is actually the main event. The NHL doesn't gain from that, but they'd never lose from it either.

As for people saying that there wouldn't be "feel good stories" akin to the Miracle on Ice, ask someone in Minsk how they feel about 2002. It would still be possible, it just wouldn't be possible for America.

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01-02-2013, 03:51 PM
  #89
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If there is still a lockout this time next year could NHL players still participate?

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01-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #90
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Its a flat out cash grab. No if's, and's or but's about it. So if you want pro's participating, be they from the Swiss, Finnish, Swedish, British, Italian or whatever other professional hockey league guys are coming from, including of course the NHL & KHL, insofar as Im concerned, youd better be sharing the wealth.
But the Swiss, Finnish, Swedish, British, Italian etc pro hockey leagues and the KHL are not asking for money. They just participate.

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01-02-2013, 04:19 PM
  #91
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But the Swiss, Finnish, Swedish, British, Italian etc pro hockey leagues and the KHL are not asking for money. They just participate.
As it should be, but we are talking greedy owners here...

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01-02-2013, 04:23 PM
  #92
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The last Olympic hockey tournament was very entertaining and really ignited hockey interest across all markets. I think the league is missing out on a promotional vehicle if they oppose player participation. Here in the States, it was huge, everyone in my office was sneaking down to the coffee shop to watch the games.

As for the "amatuer" only argument for the Olympics, very few Olympic athletes can be called amtuers, in this age of consumerism and marketing endorsements. Its very naive imo to seriously object on those grounds.
Makes you wonder about the league and their whole Grow the Game spiel doesn't it?

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01-02-2013, 04:29 PM
  #93
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If they don't it may have an affect on young European players who are drafted coming over now and in the future

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01-02-2013, 05:37 PM
  #94
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Makes you wonder about the league and their whole Grow the Game spiel doesn't it?
Ya... I would think when the NHL uses the term "grow the game" what they really mean is "make the NHL as popular in the US as possible". Given the size and wealth of the market that is hardly a bad idea. I don't think the NHL has a whole lot of concern about the health of the sport in a places like the Czech Rep, Latvia, Russia, Switzerland, etc.

To be honest though I think by being so resistant to international hockey they are missing opportunities to "grow the game" in the US. Hockey can offer the US something that most other team sports, with any meaningful profile, can't... Relatively competitive and interesting international competition (unlike football) where the US usually has a realistic chance of winning (unlike soccer) but isn't the overwhelming favourite to the point where it would be bigger news if the don't win (unlike basketball).

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01-02-2013, 05:43 PM
  #95
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Ya... I would think when the NHL uses the term "grow the game" what they really mean is "make the NHL as popular in the US as possible". Given the size and wealth of the market that is hardly a bad idea. I don't think the NHL has a whole lot of concern about the health of the sport in a places like the Czech Rep, Latvia, Russia, Switzerland, etc.

To be honest though I think by being so resistant to international hockey they are missing opportunities to "grow the game" in the US. Hockey can offer the US something that most other team sports, with any meaningful profile, can't... Relatively competitive and interesting international competition (unlike football) where the US usually has a realistic chance of winning (unlike soccer) but isn't the overwhelming favourite to the point where it would be bigger news if the don't win (unlike basketball).
I meant grow the game in the U S. As the other poster accurately stated the Olympics is more mainstream in the U S. The same thing you're saying, many potential fans would catch the game during the Olympic coverage. Best to have the best players out there showcasing the thing.

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01-02-2013, 06:22 PM
  #96
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But the Swiss, Finnish, Swedish, British, Italian etc pro hockey leagues and the KHL are not asking for money. They just participate.
Yep. And they too deserve some Olympic coin's.

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01-02-2013, 06:36 PM
  #97
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Yep. And they too deserve some Olympic coin's.
Too bad they don't share your opinion, that leaves the NHL exposed as the only party killer on the international stage.

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01-02-2013, 06:54 PM
  #98
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Its one of the best ways they have to expose the game to new fans.

People talking about the time difference simply dont understand how the Olympics are broadcasted in the US. All the events are broadcasted on tape delay in prime time. If the US has a good showing, they will have their games aired to a large audience, which is good for the game.

There are some negatives, but I wouldn't be overly concerned about them.

I also think the NHL and PA should consider a secondary "Canada Cup" type tournament to be held every 4 years in order to generate some additional revenue. But I wouldnt create this to replace the Olympics.

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01-02-2013, 07:03 PM
  #99
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Too bad they don't share your opinion, that leaves the NHL exposed as the only party killer on the international stage.
Yep, and thats their problem.... and not offended if youd like
to call them or even me Killjoy ('s) Theo. No problem at all.

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01-02-2013, 08:36 PM
  #100
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By allowing NHL players to represent the US (and other countries), there will never be another opportunity for a Miracle on Ice. That, in and of itself, is reason enough to keep NHL'rs off team USA rosters. If any of you are old enough like me to have witnessed that event, you'll know what I mean.

Ever since the NHL started to participate in the Olympics, it's been a downer for me. Just a pick-up game of pond hockey. And in some cases, an embarrassment to the NHL and the US (recall the hotel trashing, etc). Between all this, and shutting down the NHL for 2 weeks to accommodate it, NO THANKS!
Don't get this thinking.

The 2002 Belarus team begs to differ. It was pros playing pros, but it was a miraculous win all the same.

Also, there were massive parades in the Czech Republic after they defeated their former masters Russia 1-0 in an emotionally charged final in 1998.

Allowing NHL players to play has not prevented major upsets from happening or made victory any less euphoric.

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