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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part XI: The "Please make it stop" edition.

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Old
01-02-2013, 02:11 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You should go watch baseball if this is how you value players.
Just my personal preference, but I prefer Gaborik to Nash AINEC. Gaborik has already proven to be our top player even in this stifling grinding system and is coming off of a 42g season. Rick Nash has played with the worst team in the league since his rookie year and hasn't learned the ways of being a team player. I fear he is one of those types of players that only score because they are the only option on horrendous teams and fail to produce when he enters a real team's system.

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01-02-2013, 02:12 PM
  #27
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I still think the cap ceiling will be compromised above the $60 million. A lot of teams will be broken up with a $60 million cap. I just don't see it happening. I'd say somewhere around $63-$65 million is what we'll see. Of course this is dependent on getting a deal done now, and not in the Summer.

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01-02-2013, 02:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Just my personal preference, but I prefer Gaborik to Nash AINEC. Gaborik has already proven to be our top player even in this stifling grinding system and is coming off of a 42g season. Rick Nash has played with the worst team in the league since his rookie year and hasn't learned the ways of being a team player. I fear he is one of those types of players that only score because they are the only option on horrendous teams and fail to produce when he enters a real team's system.
It's not like Nash is some guy that came out of nowhere to be the best player in Columbus--the dude was the OHL rookie of the year, number one overall pick, Calder nominee and youngest-ever player to lead the league in goals. He has an impressive resume and there's absolutely zero reason to believe he won't perform on a "real" team.

I prefer Gaborik over Nash as well, but your one particular fear seems to have no basis in reality.

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01-02-2013, 02:17 PM
  #29
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Well... No matter what happens this will be the last lockout thread before the fate of the season is announced.

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01-02-2013, 02:20 PM
  #30
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I'm not too concerned about the cap. Chances are it'll be in the neighborhood of $64M rather than $60M. Either way, Boston, Minnesota, and Vancouver are pretty much screwed

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01-02-2013, 02:22 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Just my personal preference, but I prefer Gaborik to Nash AINEC. Gaborik has already proven to be our top player even in this stifling grinding system and is coming off of a 42g season. Rick Nash has played with the worst team in the league since his rookie year and hasn't learned the ways of being a team player. I fear he is one of those types of players that only score because they are the only option on horrendous teams and fail to produce when he enters a real team's system.
Was the Hitchcock-lead 08/09 Jackets not a real team? Did they not play a disciplined system? Wasn't that Nash's best season ever?

What's the difference between that and Gaborik last season? Besides the obvious being that Gaborik was centered by Richards and Stepan while Nash was centered by Manny Malhotra (that's not even a joke - see here).

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01-02-2013, 02:24 PM
  #32
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Well... No matter what happens this will be the last lockout thread before the fate of the season is announced.
Not if we hurry, maybe throw in a few high volume arguments.

So what does everyone think of Brian Boyle as a 3rd line center?


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01-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #33
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Not if we hurry, maybe throw in a few high volume arguments.

So what does everyone think of Brian Boyle as a 3rd line center?

I see your Brain Boyle as 3rd line center and raise you "Who is better Torts or Renney?"

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01-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
I'm not too concerned about the cap. Chances are it'll be in the neighborhood of $64M rather than $60M. Either way, Boston, Minnesota, and Vancouver are pretty much screwed
Yeah those teams would be toast. The Rangers current payroll according to cap geek is a little over $59 million. Minnesota, and Boston are at like $68-$69 million. I think I heard the other day that Boston has a bunch of players not even signed.

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01-02-2013, 02:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It's not like Nash is some guy that came out of nowhere to be the best player in Columbus--the dude was the OHL rookie of the year, number one overall pick, Calder nominee and youngest-ever player to lead the league in goals. He has an impressive resume and there's absolutely zero reason to believe he won't perform on a "real" team.
His Jr. resume was impressive, but there are many players who didn't even make the bigs with better scoring rates than Nash.

He led the team in goals, but what fails to get mentioned is that he only had 16 assists that season.

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I prefer Gaborik over Nash as well, but your one particular fear seems to have no basis in reality.
Sure it does. It's the 'Jason Blake syndrome'. Someone has to score on bad teams.

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01-02-2013, 02:34 PM
  #36
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His Jr. resume was impressive, but there are many players who didn't even make the bigs with better scoring rates than Nash.

He led the team in goals, but what fails to get mentioned is that he only had 16 assists that season.
The rest of his team only scored 18 goals so that's pretty impressive

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01-02-2013, 02:37 PM
  #37
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His Jr. resume was impressive, but there are many players who didn't even make the bigs with better scoring rates than Nash.

He led the team in goals, but what fails to get mentioned is that he only had 16 assists that season.



Sure it does. It's the 'Jason Blake syndrome'. Someone has to score on bad teams.
Okay, I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make so I won't argue with you. Nash was a number one pick that was expected to perform, has performed, and will continue to perform. I'll leave it at that.

Really though--when did Jason Blake ever play on a good team?

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01-02-2013, 02:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Yeah those teams would be toast. The Rangers current payroll according to cap geek is a little over $59 million. Minnesota, and Boston are at like $68-$69 million. I think I heard the other day that Boston has a bunch of players not even signed.
Yeah compared to some teams we're in pretty good shape. Vancouver is around $67M and Minny and Boston are around $68M. Vancouver has Ballard to buy out but the other 2 are in a real sticky situation.

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01-02-2013, 02:40 PM
  #39
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“@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Don Fehr emerged from meeting now. Says NHLPA gave a response and league is now looking that over. Says it's conceivable they may meet again”

“@stevezipay: Don Fehr emerges from about an hour of talks, says PA responded to proposal, conceivable sides meet tonight”

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01-02-2013, 02:41 PM
  #40
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Yeah compared to some teams we're in pretty good shape. Vancouver is around $67M and Minny and Boston are around $68M. Vancouver has Ballard to buy out but the other 2 are in a real sticky situation.
Are these figures for this season or next? It's 2013/2014 that's the issue.

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01-02-2013, 02:43 PM
  #41
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“@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Don Fehr emerged from meeting now. Says NHLPA gave a response and league is now looking that over. Says it's conceivable they may meet again”

“@stevezipay: Don Fehr emerges from about an hour of talks, says PA responded to proposal, conceivable sides meet tonight”

Back and forth we go... thats a good thing.

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01-02-2013, 02:44 PM
  #42
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Okay, I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make so I won't argue with you. Nash was a number one pick that was expected to perform, has performed, and will continue to perform. I'll leave it at that.

Really though--when did Jason Blake ever play on a good team?
Probably not the best example, perhaps look at Dominic Moore with the Leafs relative to the rest of his career. Matt Stajan, etc. Inept players who scored a lot on bad teams and struggled with better structured rosters.

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01-02-2013, 02:47 PM
  #43
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I hope tonight is like last year when the NBA cut a deal, in the late hours of the night...

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01-02-2013, 02:47 PM
  #44
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Are these figures for this season or next? It's 2013/2014 that's the issue.
It's for this season. Though some teams still won't be able to get down.

You figure Tim Thomas is done in Boston after this season. He's got like a $5 million+ cap hit I believe.

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01-02-2013, 02:48 PM
  #45
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Probably not the best example, perhaps look at Dominic Moore with the Leafs relative to the rest of his career. Matt Stajan, etc. Inept players who scored a lot on bad teams and struggled with better structured rosters.
You're comparing Rick Nash to Dominic Moore and Matt Stajan????

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01-02-2013, 02:49 PM
  #46
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“@TGfireandice: Tentatively scheduled for both sides to meet again at 8 p.m. tonight. But tentatively is the key word.”

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01-02-2013, 02:49 PM
  #47
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Bonus cushion provides the flexibility, along with injuries (I believe they put into place some flexibility on how emergency recalls affect the cap). It's a 20-man roster and that sucks, but carrying a 20-man roster is preferable to losing either Gaborik or Del Zotto. Especially since it's only for one season.
I think you may be lowballing our RFAs as well. Both Hagelin and McDonagh will be arbitration eligible. If McD goes to arbitration, he's going to get more than 3.5 mil, even under the new cap structure. If Stepan puts up 70 points, 2.6 mil might not get it done, though maybe Sather can convince him to take a short term deal.

Basically, if your projections are short even 1 mil, it won't work. It's debatable that it will work even as you drew it up, since using the bonus cushion might just push the problem into the following year (since we don't know how much the cap will go up) when other players need to be paid.

If the cap is set at 60 mil for 13-14, we are going to lose someone. But I don't think the cap will be that low. The NHL will come up a little bit.

Maybe someone should suggest that whatever cap dollars aren't used this year (up to a certain amount...maybe 5 mil?) can be applied to next year as a way to bridge the gap. The actual numbers don't change from the NHL's POV. It's still a total of 130, but teams can do 65, 65 instead of 70, 60.

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01-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #48
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You're comparing Rick Nash to Dominic Moore and Matt Stajan????
Looks like we're getting close to a season!

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Old
01-02-2013, 03:27 PM
  #49
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As much as I disagree with Tortorella's view on Nash, I do agree that the trade is a disaster if it boils down to losing Gabby, Dubi and Arty for Nash. Nash is great but I don't think he's significantly better than gabby, if at all.

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01-02-2013, 03:43 PM
  #50
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I've strayed away from the boards since the summer but figured i'd stop in to drop this little tidbit. Basically there's just some few very small things to go over and an agreement has all but been reached. The NHL contacted the refs today and let them know the season will be underway in about 10-14 days. If you recall I'm the one that told everyone Marty was going to test the FA waters and everybody basically called me a complete moron, so take it for what it's worth. Get ready boys, hockey's back!

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