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Drouin...1st overall pick?

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Old
01-02-2013, 04:57 AM
  #176
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WJC isn't a major factor in evaluating prospects but its a good tool. Jonathan Drouin has definitely put himself in the conversation for top 3, but at the end of the day MacKinnon will go #1. Guys like Jones and MacKinnon are ultra talented and looking at their potential 5 years down the line when they are more developed and stronger is scary. Drouin could possibly squeeze in a two at best if these guys falter in the 2nd half.

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01-02-2013, 07:24 AM
  #177
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Ill preface this by saying I've been on the Drouin bandwagon for a few months now.

From a ceiling perspective, I give it to Drouin. Top end skills with elite hockey sense and powerful skating. He'll have to prove that he can translate his game to the NHL level, but smallish skill guys before him have shown little problem with that since the last lockout. Consider the success of similar small skill guys like Giroux, Kane, Eberle, Ennis, Parise, Skinner, Perron, RNH, Crosby (recall, many were doubting his ability to play his style at only 5'11). I could very easily see a guy like Drouin joining that list with his puck skills, leg strength, and hockey smarts.

Mackinnon is probably a bit more of a sure thing. Already an elite skater with NHL speed and shot with quick hands to boot. He reminds me of Tyler Seguin with a lower hockey IQ. Mackinnon's level of hockey IQ is a little lower than I'd like to see on a 1st overall. His doesn't compare well to recent 1st overall forwards like Crosby, Kane, Tavares, or RNH and is probably a bit lower than Stamkos's as well. His vision is more on par with that of a Taylor Hall, and that concerns me a bit.

If I were drafting at 1, I'd probably try to trade down and grab Drouin at 3 or 4.

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01-02-2013, 09:21 AM
  #178
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My opinion that Mackinnon goes before Drouin aside, I still think that most teams will\should take Jones first. Scouts are calling him the most exciting defensive prospect in a good many years, it's rare that someone with his skillset--that also happens to be 6'4 and skate like the wind?

Forwards like Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov are exciting players...but true franchise defensemen are a rare commodity.

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01-02-2013, 10:20 AM
  #179
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Although the WJC is giving Drouin some legs , I think it will go like this:

1. MacKinnon/Jones
2. Jones/MacKinnon
3. Drouin/ Barkov
4. Barkov/ Drouin

#1 and #2 interchangable and #3/#4 interchangable.

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01-02-2013, 10:55 AM
  #180
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the biggest difference I see in Mackinnon vs Drouin - Drouin >>>> Mackinnon in hockey sense.

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01-02-2013, 11:10 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
My opinion that Mackinnon goes before Drouin aside, I still think that most teams will\should take Jones first. Scouts are calling him the most exciting defensive prospect in a good many years, it's rare that someone with his skillset--that also happens to be 6'4 and skate like the wind?
Well, there's a pretty decent one in the 2014 Draft and possibly an even better one in 2016..

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01-02-2013, 11:56 AM
  #182
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I think Jones will be a better overall player than Mackinnon.

I also think he is a future Captain.

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01-02-2013, 12:06 PM
  #183
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the biggest difference I see in Mackinnon vs Drouin - Drouin >>>> Mackinnon in hockey sense.
I disagree with you on that one, especially defensively. I do think Drouin is a better passer and has slightly better hands, but their IQ is not far apart where I am concerned, especially when it concerns defense.

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01-02-2013, 12:07 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
My opinion that Mackinnon goes before Drouin aside, I still think that most teams will\should take Jones first. Scouts are calling him the most exciting defensive prospect in a good many years, it's rare that someone with his skillset--that also happens to be 6'4 and skate like the wind?

Sounds like good old pumpkin head. Although he is just 6-3.

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01-02-2013, 12:10 PM
  #185
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Sounds like good old pumpkin head. Although he is just 6-3.
You wouldn't be to HIM, would you?

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01-02-2013, 01:25 PM
  #186
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Burke says Drouin is top 3:

http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=main/latest/1/0/835671/clip/480

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01-02-2013, 01:56 PM
  #187
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I disagree with you on that one, especially defensively. I do think Drouin is a better passer and has slightly better hands, but their IQ is not far apart where I am concerned, especially when it concerns defense.
I dunno. I see Mackinnon as someone relying more on his physical talents [size, speed] than brains whereas Drouin relies on his smarts and puckhandling skills because he's smaller

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01-02-2013, 02:11 PM
  #188
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if the habs draft first overall, I really hope they draft this kid!

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01-02-2013, 02:37 PM
  #189
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My list:
1)Jones
2)Makinnon
3)Drouin
4)Lindholm
5)Nuchushkin
6)Monahan
7)Barkov
8)Pulock
9)Ristolainen
10)Shinkaruk

Same list as the one I had two weeks ago with the exception of barkov moving down. Barkov can shoot into top 3/4 if he actually starts to use his body more often. Two other wildcards here are ristolainen and monahan as I havent really focused on those two much

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01-02-2013, 02:37 PM
  #190
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I've changed my mind on this--YES MACKINNON is a big power forward with a 2-way game and YES since his natural position is centre -all the projection on his future value as a talented big 2-way power centre presents a "franchise " player value--BUT what wil he actually be : A Malikn or a Toews? IF "only" a Toews --that is very good and franchise valuable but not as "top " on the scoring charts as Malkin --
ON the other hand DROUIN is already deemed a very special talent by his peers (several players on Team Canada at the WHJC have said so-and the proof that his coach there (SPOTT) thinks this too by inserting him on the first line --is almost a CERTAIN GUARANTEE that he will be special in the NHL too --a top line winger with magic hands who ALSO excels playing hard with effort in defensive responsibility
ans so I think that extremely rare combination SHOULD place his value projection above that of MACKINNON who we cannot yet project to his ceiling --will he be a 100 pts guy like Malkin or "just" a 70-80 pts guy like Toews albeit with other attributes that still make him the franchise guy for his team?
In other words --i think their is greater certainty in projecting DROUIN's top value than with MACKINNON --both willbe top first liners one day in the NHL -but it is more CERTAIN that DROUIN willbe a 1A "special" type--MACKINNON could be that too but may only reach a 1B type with some very attractive compensating attributes making up the scoring difference if he only reaches 1B in scoring...
Yes it is unfair to compare just on the WJHC performances because DROUIN is getting featured minutes on the topline whereas MacKinnon plays out of position as a 4th line winger -but you can SEE how special DROUIN is by how he is playing each shift -and you can't see any of that "specialness" in Mackinnon's limited role --BUT truely "great' players SHOULD be able to show that specialness and in so doing ELEVATE their line and its role by their own performance alone (this is called "difference-making") --so far we have seen no big difference-making from MacKinnon --and so DOUBT creeps in as to whether he ACTUALLY might not be a 1A projection--but perhaps "only" a 1B ...
YES-next year in jrs--at the WJHC--he could be the #1 centre for Team Canada -he could "emerge" and dominate the tournament -a year older and in a more featured role -BUT then that malkes what DROUIN is doing NOW at this younger age this year at the wJHC--more "special" ...and sO:

I now have to rate DROUIN ahead of MACKINNON ..because though I think MacKinnon will be a lot better in the tornament next year-I do not think DROUIN is some young "phenom" who will flame out early or plateau while Mckinnon improves
and or that they both will eventally be at the same level -rather I see no reason DROUIN will lose any of his specialness-but i still have doubt even if an improved Mackinnon a year from now will beyond that project to an NHL 1A player or merely pan out to a 1B ...DROUIN wilbe a 1A ...and that makes me have to rate him higher now-I'm just more certain about his ceiling..

So DROUIN or SETH JONES ? Now wea all know the old hockey adage about top #1 D-men are much rarer than top #1 forwards so you MUST put a premium on the rarer commodity ..
BUT -again the certainty on the ceiling issue:

I am not certain about Jones NHL ceiling--he has all the tools and attributes -but willhe be the linchpin "difference-maker" franchise D-man ? A Pronger or Chara ?
No he's not that type...Put up Karlsson points? No -he might not .He seems rather the in-between 2-way tupe with all the attributes --that either makes him very special or LESS than special in one or both offense and/or defense--the COMBINATION is still very valueable -so very good overall but not THE BEST in either category and so maybe not the "difference-maker"
type...rather only the best of the useful parts of a team's D-corps..

DROUIN on the other hand -might be a special difference-maker on offense who also happens to be among the best defensive forwards on your team--a very rare combo to have .

THUS I would take him at #1 overall..Jones at #2 ...Mackinnon and Barkov at #3 and #4 --but in which order I'm still not yet sure...#5 and #6 I would take D-men---RISTOLAINEN at #5 and ZADOROV at #6 (this could be switched as I'm not certain
which of these 2 is the better NHL projection but my hunch is on Ristolainen --at this point he is better offensively and IF he played in the OHL for London-i think he too would be around+28 -this is not a knock at Zadorov -he is bigger and can hit hard -but I think Ristolainen is more offensively gifted and a better skater -anyway it is my hunch)...I think these are the top 6 prospects in this draft ..How you rank them may be different but each to his own opinion.

DROUIN on the other hand cOULD be a very rare special talent

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01-02-2013, 02:59 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
My opinion that Mackinnon goes before Drouin aside, I still think that most teams will\should take Jones first. Scouts are calling him the most exciting defensive prospect in a good many years, it's rare that someone with his skillset--that also happens to be 6'4 and skate like the wind?

Forwards like Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov are exciting players...but true franchise defensemen are a rare commodity.
Not to diminish the importance of a franchise defenseman, as I'd say that the #1 defenseman is the team's most important player, but a #1 centre is very close to being equally as important. If you're building a team though, I'd want to build from the net out.

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01-02-2013, 03:13 PM
  #192
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Not to diminish the importance of a franchise defenseman, as I'd say that the #1 defenseman is the team's most important player, but a #1 centre is very close to being equally as important. If you're building a team though, I'd want to build from the net out.
I disagree

An NHL team can get by with their #1 D-man being a 1b guy or even a 2 but a team with no 1st line center is going nowhere quickly.

Obviously both are extremely important but I'm positive that there are far fewer cup teams in history without a #1 C than there are cup teams without a #1 D

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01-02-2013, 03:14 PM
  #193
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I think Mackinnon/Jones are a lock for 1st overall, I don't see either of them slipping in the ISS rankings. When was the last time the consensus 1st overall wasn't taken?

1-2 will be Jones/Mackinnon, 3-5 will be Drouin/Barkov/Monahan. The exact order is anybody's guess. There can always be surprises, but I'd be shocked if those guys aren't the top 5 barring any setbacks.

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01-02-2013, 03:15 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
My opinion that Mackinnon goes before Drouin aside, I still think that most teams will\should take Jones first. Scouts are calling him the most exciting defensive prospect in a good many years, it's rare that someone with his skillset--that also happens to be 6'4 and skate like the wind?
You know, I believe I heard that exact same phrase, verbatim, for both Erik Johnson and Victor Hedman in their draft years. It's actually scary how close the correlation is. Johnson and Hedman turned out to be very good NHLers, yes, but not nearly as good as they were projected to be by scouts (yet, at least).

I think it just goes to show how difficult it is to project how good defensemen will be in the NHL. Scouts generally have a good record when it comes to forwards, but for D-men, you'll notice that most of the dominant superstar ones in the NHL currently (Chara, Weber, Keith, Letang, etc) were picked later on in the draft. The exception seems to be the 2008 draft, but that one was just stacked with talent on defense.

So I'm not saying that Jones won't become an amazing D-man in the NHL, but I don't believe he is as sure of a bet to become a superstar as MacKinnon is.

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01-02-2013, 03:18 PM
  #195
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I think Mackinnon/Jones are a lock for 1st overall, I don't see either of them slipping in the ISS rankings. When was the last time the consensus 1st overall wasn't taken?

1-2 will be Jones/Mackinnon, 3-5 will be Drouin/Barkov/Monahan. The exact order is anybody's guess. There can always be surprises, but I'd be shocked if those guys aren't the top 5 barring any setbacks.
Elias Lindholm better get picked in the top 5 or there will be a lot of scouts jumping out of buildings in a few years

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01-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #196
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DROUIN on the other hand cOULD be a very rare special talent
Nobody wants to miss the player with highest upside 2nd year in row.

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01-02-2013, 03:32 PM
  #197
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"He has no holes in his game". To all those who have posting that Drouin is terrible defensively or that his defensive game won't translate to the NHL. Yes there is some room for improvement there as Burke recognizes too, but he is by no means inept in this area of the game...

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01-02-2013, 03:34 PM
  #198
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I've changed my mind on this--YES MACKINNON is a big power forward with a 2-way game and YES since his natural position is centre -all the projection on his future value as a talented big 2-way power centre presents a "franchise " player value--BUT what wil he actually be : A Malikn or a Toews? IF "only" a Toews --that is very good and franchise valuable but not as "top " on the scoring charts as Malkin --
ON the other hand DROUIN is already deemed a very special talent by his peers (several players on Team Canada at the WHJC have said so-and the proof that his coach there (SPOTT) thinks this too by inserting him on the first line --is almost a CERTAIN GUARANTEE that he will be special in the NHL too --a top line winger with magic hands who ALSO excels playing hard with effort in defensive responsibility
ans so I think that extremely rare combination SHOULD place his value projection above that of MACKINNON who we cannot yet project to his ceiling --will he be a 100 pts guy like Malkin or "just" a 70-80 pts guy like Toews albeit with other attributes that still make him the franchise guy for his team?
In other words --i think their is greater certainty in projecting DROUIN's top value than with MACKINNON --both willbe top first liners one day in the NHL -but it is more CERTAIN that DROUIN willbe a 1A "special" type--MACKINNON could be that too but may only reach a 1B type with some very attractive compensating attributes making up the scoring difference if he only reaches 1B in scoring...
Yes it is unfair to compare just on the WJHC performances because DROUIN is getting featured minutes on the topline whereas MacKinnon plays out of position as a 4th line winger -but you can SEE how special DROUIN is by how he is playing each shift -and you can't see any of that "specialness" in Mackinnon's limited role --BUT truely "great' players SHOULD be able to show that specialness and in so doing ELEVATE their line and its role by their own performance alone (this is called "difference-making") --so far we have seen no big difference-making from MacKinnon --and so DOUBT creeps in as to whether he ACTUALLY might not be a 1A projection--but perhaps "only" a 1B ...
YES-next year in jrs--at the WJHC--he could be the #1 centre for Team Canada -he could "emerge" and dominate the tournament -a year older and in a more featured role -BUT then that malkes what DROUIN is doing NOW at this younger age this year at the wJHC--more "special" ...and sO:

I now have to rate DROUIN ahead of MACKINNON ..because though I think MacKinnon will be a lot better in the tornament next year-I do not think DROUIN is some young "phenom" who will flame out early or plateau while Mckinnon improves
and or that they both will eventally be at the same level -rather I see no reason DROUIN will lose any of his specialness-but i still have doubt even if an improved Mackinnon a year from now will beyond that project to an NHL 1A player or merely pan out to a 1B ...DROUIN wilbe a 1A ...and that makes me have to rate him higher now-I'm just more certain about his ceiling..

So DROUIN or SETH JONES ? Now wea all know the old hockey adage about top #1 D-men are much rarer than top #1 forwards so you MUST put a premium on the rarer commodity ..
BUT -again the certainty on the ceiling issue:

I am not certain about Jones NHL ceiling--he has all the tools and attributes -but willhe be the linchpin "difference-maker" franchise D-man ? A Pronger or Chara ?
No he's not that type...Put up Karlsson points? No -he might not .He seems rather the in-between 2-way tupe with all the attributes --that either makes him very special or LESS than special in one or both offense and/or defense--the COMBINATION is still very valueable -so very good overall but not THE BEST in either category and so maybe not the "difference-maker"
type...rather only the best of the useful parts of a team's D-corps..

DROUIN on the other hand -might be a special difference-maker on offense who also happens to be among the best defensive forwards on your team--a very rare combo to have .

THUS I would take him at #1 overall..Jones at #2 ...Mackinnon and Barkov at #3 and #4 --but in which order I'm still not yet sure...#5 and #6 I would take D-men---RISTOLAINEN at #5 and ZADOROV at #6 (this could be switched as I'm not certain
which of these 2 is the better NHL projection but my hunch is on Ristolainen --at this point he is better offensively and IF he played in the OHL for London-i think he too would be around+28 -this is not a knock at Zadorov -he is bigger and can hit hard -but I think Ristolainen is more offensively gifted and a better skater -anyway it is my hunch)...I think these are the top 6 prospects in this draft ..How you rank them may be different but each to his own opinion.

DROUIN on the other hand cOULD be a very rare special talent
Exxcellent post Hawksfan, been a while since I have seen you chime in. I dont think Zadorov will be as good as some posters think, prob just a solid #4 d in his prime.
BTW when I imagine you I see the brown dude from community lol.

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01-02-2013, 03:35 PM
  #199
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I disagree

An NHL team can get by with their #1 D-man being a 1b guy or even a 2 but a team with no 1st line center is going nowhere quickly.

Obviously both are extremely important but I'm positive that there are far fewer cup teams in history without a #1 C than there are cup teams without a #1 D
It really depends on the team. Elite dmen can take a poor team all the way. It's usually not the case with an elite center playing on a poor team

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01-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #200
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It really depends on the team. Elite dmen can take a poor team all the way. It's usually not the case with an elite center playing on a poor team
True. Would you rather have Stephen Weiss as your number 1 center or Alex Edler as your number 1 d? Neither are elite at their position but both are solid. Really would depend on the make up of the rest of the team.

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