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D Seth Jones - Portland Winterhawks (2013 Draft)

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01-02-2013, 03:20 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
How does Ekblad stack up to Jones?
Think of it this way,

Both are two-way players.

Jones will be much better offensively
Ekblad will be much better defensively

Both will have the talent to contribute on both sides of the ice, but will excel where their talent resides. I would take Jones overall, but it's close.

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01-02-2013, 03:22 PM
  #702
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At this point, for me, I'm having a hard time trying to find a reason to pick anyone besides Jones 1st overall. I think teams are built on the blueline, and Jones is exactly the kind of guy you would want to build your franchise around.

MacKinnon, Barkov and Drouin are all right there in the discussion but I think Jones has to be the guy for me at this point.

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01-02-2013, 03:34 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
How does Ekblad stack up to Jones?
I'm probably a homer, but I think Ekblad is the better prospect.

Jones is better offensively, rushes the puck up more and is a bit flashier. He's pretty creative at times too. Ekblad is a great piece to have on the powerplay. He can be either the shooter or QB, and isn't afraid to go down low. Jones is the better player offensively right now, but Ekblad still is growing in that aspect. Both players make excellent first passes too.

Defensively, Ekblad is better. Jones is fantastic in his own zone (despite what people will say who've only watched the WJC), but Ekblad is just unreal. I know this sounds absolutely crazy, but the Colts biggest loss right now is not Scheifele or Camara. It's Ekblad. No one knows how to play defense for the Colts right now. Ekblad makes the simple play every time, whereas Jones does not. Ekblad has a more active stick and never cheats. It may hurt his offensive production, but he doesn't get burned at all really. Jones still is very good though, but has more to improve in his own end than Ekblad does.

Both can dominate a game physically, not necessarily with huge hits, but by using their bodies well, clearing the front of the net, and winning board battles. Neither are overly physical, but I'd give the edge to Ekblad here, he simply does not lose puck battles. Both can be beasts when they want to be though.

Jones and Ekblad both have lots of room to grow. I think Ekblad is a better prospect, but both are first overall talents in my mind. If I had to project them, I'd say Jones will be better offensively. He'll take more risks and consistently put up more points. Ekblad will be better defensively, but won't put up quite the numbers that Jones does. I think a large portion of his production will come from the powerplay.

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01-02-2013, 03:40 PM
  #704
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I would take Jones 1st overall as well. I feel like he has the highest upside in this entire draft, the question mark really becomes how likely it is that he reaches it? Taking a forward seems to be the safe route historically and in this draft as well, you know your job is safe if you take MacKinnon first overall. It's a pretty safe pick. But to me no question if Jones reaches his potential, he's the most valuable player to have here in this draft.

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01-02-2013, 05:20 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
It's not that surprising. We haven't had a defensemen this good be draft elligible for a long time, possibly since Pronger and while MacKinnon and the other elite forwards are strong, but they've not exceptional first overall picks (Think Steven Stamkos, John Tavares and Sidney Crosby), they'd just be "average" ones (Think Taylor Hall and Patrick Kane).
I'm starting to think that Mackinnon compares to a Taylor Hall type potential, good, but not great. Drouin more to a P Kane/Skinner. Jones, he has the size and potential, does he have the desire and heart to reach a Pronger level? The WJC to me has elevated Jones in the race for #1

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01-02-2013, 05:44 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
It's not that surprising. We haven't had a defensemen this good be draft elligible for a long time, possibly since Pronger and while MacKinnon and the other elite forwards are strong, but they've not exceptional first overall picks (Think Steven Stamkos, John Tavares and Sidney Crosby), they'd just be "average" ones (Think Taylor Hall and Patrick Kane).
Nathan MacKinnon is pretty much John Tavares with better skating (maybe even a more explosive first step) and more willingness to get his nose dirty. You've inadvertently came up with one of the better comparisons as far as past #1 picks go, lol.

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01-02-2013, 05:57 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Nathan MacKinnon is pretty much John Tavares with better skating (maybe even a more explosive first step) and more willingness to get his nose dirty. You've inadvertently came up with one of the better comparisons as far as past #1 picks go, lol.
They really are not similar at all.

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01-02-2013, 06:12 PM
  #708
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For me the #1 pick unless the team that chooses 1st overall needs desperately a #1C that should be MacKinnon

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01-02-2013, 07:04 PM
  #709
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They really are not similar at all.
You're right. They both have hands, but they come from different moms.

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01-02-2013, 07:22 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
At this point, for me, I'm having a hard time trying to find a reason to pick anyone besides Jones 1st overall. I think teams are built on the blueline, and Jones is exactly the kind of guy you would want to build your franchise around.

MacKinnon, Barkov and Drouin are all right there in the discussion but I think Jones has to be the guy for me at this point.
You don't have Lindholm in the discussion?

As for Jones, the one drawback for me is that he seems kind of raw. Super talented, but I'm not sure he's decided on exactly what kind of player he wants to become. He tries a lot of things offensively that normally only smaller offensive dmen would try in terms of pinches, rushes and dangles, but will such a big man really be able to dangle like that at the NHL level? We've seen big dmen with finesse offensive games struggle to really learn how to use their tools effectively at the NHL level, i.e. Myers, Hedman, EJ, etc. The big men who are most effective tend to keep it simple offensively, i.e. Pronger, Chara, Weber, etc. With that being said, he also has a great shot and plenty of talent in his own end, his upside is enormous, but if I'm thinking about picking him 1st overall the main thing I'd worry about is him actually turning all of that raw talent into a polished NHL game. Massive upside, could literally be a rich man's Pietrangelo, but I do think he's a riskier pick than some of the top forwards.

Personally I'd have a pretty tough time deciding between MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm. I think I'd still go with MacKinnon, I wouldn't hold this WJC against him as he's mostly played 4th line minutes, but it's definitely a really, really tough choice.

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01-02-2013, 07:52 PM
  #711
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I couldn't compare Jones to Pietrangelo because to me Petro oozes hockey IQ, and always does the right thing. Jones oozes athleticism but I've seen many plays that make me question his decision-making under pressure, and his hockey sense in general. Some of his plays have been spectacular but some of his turnovers have been horrendous.

To me it comes down to whether or not he can refine that aspect of his game, or if he's like Dion Phaneuf and doomed to make the same mistakes over and over.

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01-02-2013, 08:31 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
I couldn't compare Jones to Pietrangelo because to me Petro oozes hockey IQ, and always does the right thing. Jones oozes athleticism but I've seen many plays that make me question his decision-making under pressure, and his hockey sense in general. Some of his plays have been spectacular but some of his turnovers have been horrendous.

To me it comes down to whether or not he can refine that aspect of his game, or if he's like Dion Phaneuf and doomed to make the same mistakes over and over.
Yes but this was Pietrangelo in his first WJC too if you don't remember, both dominated in the CHL but were not as dominant in their first WJC. Pietrangelo was dominant however in his second, and Jones probably would be too I bet but I don't expect to see him again in next years tournament.

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01-02-2013, 09:54 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Think of it this way,

Both are two-way players.

Jones will be much better offensively
Ekblad will be much better defensively

Both will have the talent to contribute on both sides of the ice, but will excel where their talent resides. I would take Jones overall, but it's close.
I just don't see this being the case, Jones size and defensive play is absolutely smothering. teams are going to ahve a hard time getting past him in the NHL with is size, strength and skating and his play in getting back to the puck and making great plays with it sucking defenders in then shedding them off last 2nd is 2nd to none.

If you were going to describe Jones in one word it would be presence

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01-02-2013, 09:59 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
I would take Jones 1st overall as well. I feel like he has the highest upside in this entire draft, the question mark really becomes how likely it is that he reaches it? Taking a forward seems to be the safe route historically and in this draft as well, you know your job is safe if you take MacKinnon first overall. It's a pretty safe pick. But to me no question if Jones reaches his potential, he's the most valuable player to have here in this draft.
Right now Jones could step into the NHL and be a pretty decent 2nd pairing Dman, that's his absolute floor.

I don't mean after the draft and in 13 i mean right now.

His skating, strength and defensive play is that good already and he is going to get better, ie more consistent and confident.

I had Nathan 1st and he might still go 1st but Jones is really the guy I would want to build my team around , just like Renegade Stylings mentioned earlier in this thread.

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01-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I just don't see this being the case, Jones size and defensive play is absolutely smothering. teams are going to have a hard time getting past him in the NHL with is size, strength and skating and his play in getting back to the puck and making great plays with it sucking defenders in then shedding them off last 2nd is 2nd to none.

If you were going to describe Jones in one word it would be presence
Agreed and that is why I prefer Jones overall. I think he has enough potential to be fantastic defensively with his ever amazing offensive game. My question to you is, have you see Ekblad play? You know your stuff so I am not questioning your logic or anything, but Ekblad's defense last year was amazing for a 15 year old kid. He looked like he could've been playing limited minutes in a shutdown role in AHL or ECHL. OK, I know that was over-exaggerating, but Aaron already possess fantastic defensive game and will progress to elite status in the NHL.

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01-02-2013, 10:45 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Nathan MacKinnon is pretty much John Tavares with better skating (maybe even a more explosive first step) and more willingness to get his nose dirty. You've inadvertently came up with one of the better comparisons as far as past #1 picks go, lol.
I don't agree. MacKinnon has skating on Tavares but that's about it. Tavares has stronger hockey IQ, he's a better playmaker, better "scoring sense", better defensively, better hands. Tavares rarely makes a mistake and he carries the puck near perfectly, you'll almost never see him turn it over by bobbling the puck. MacKinnon seems guilty of that at least a few times every I watch him.

Hall is a far better comparison, they play a similar game, they're both physical wingers, they have similar hockey IQ (Which is above-average, but not great) and they dominate through athelticism and explosiveness.

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01-02-2013, 11:29 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
I don't agree. MacKinnon has skating on Tavares but that's about it. Tavares has stronger hockey IQ, he's a better playmaker, better "scoring sense", better defensively, better hands. Tavares rarely makes a mistake and he carries the puck near perfectly, you'll almost never see him turn it over by bobbling the puck. MacKinnon seems guilty of that at least a few times every I watch him.

Hall is a far better comparison, they play a similar game, they're both physical wingers, they have similar hockey IQ (Which is above-average, but not great) and they dominate through athelticism and explosiveness.
MacKinnon is a natural centre, and plays his best hockey (by far) in that position. That's a pretty important distinction to make right there. Judging MacKinnon by what he does on the wing is like trying to sum up Fedorov's career with an exploration of his life as a defenseman.

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01-02-2013, 11:37 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Right now Jones could step into the NHL and be a pretty decent 2nd pairing Dman, that's his absolute floor.

I don't mean after the draft and in 13 i mean right now.

His skating, strength and defensive play is that good already and he is going to get better, ie more consistent and confident.

I had Nathan 1st and he might still go 1st but Jones is really the guy I would want to build my team around , just like Renegade Stylings mentioned earlier in this thread.
Jones has the most potential in the 2013 draft but its still potential and its not reached yet. So lets not get carried away against Canada and Russia he was getting beat off the rush pretty badly a couple of times. I ain't worried about that all seeing how this is first WJC/CHL campaign, but I don't think he would be very good in the league right now, not close to 2nd pairing d man. That aint a problem too, but people are over hyping how good Jones is now...

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01-02-2013, 11:43 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by ed bruin View Post
Jones has the most potential in the 2013 draft but its still potential and its not reached yet. So lets not get carried away against Canada and Russia he was getting beat off the rush pretty badly a couple of times. I ain't worried about that all seeing how this is first WJC/CHL campaign, but I don't think he would be very good in the league right now, not close to 2nd pairing d man. That aint a problem too, but people are over hyping how good Jones is now...
I disagree. He'd obviously make mistakes since he's young, but I wouldn't hesitate to put him on a 2nd pairing if there's a reliable enough guy with him. He'd make enough jaw dropping plays to make up for the occasional gaffe

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01-02-2013, 11:45 PM
  #720
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Yes but this was Pietrangelo in his first WJC too if you don't remember, both dominated in the CHL but were not as dominant in their first WJC. Pietrangelo was dominant however in his second, and Jones probably would be too I bet but I don't expect to see him again in next years tournament.
That's a good point, but Pietrangelo still didn't make as many bad mistakes as Jones has. He didn't even play that much in his first tournament.

I'd seen Pietrangelo play in Niagara before his first WJC and he had the same cerebral style that he has today. He's always had that reputation of being the smartest guy on the ice (Lidstrom-esque), whereas I've never seen that with Jones or heard it said about him. Jones' athleticism is incredible though, but I don't know if he has the hockey sense to be the elite defenseman that some people see.

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01-02-2013, 11:50 PM
  #721
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I disagree. He'd obviously make mistakes since he's young, but I wouldn't hesitate to put him on a 2nd pairing if there's a reliable enough guy with him. He'd make enough jaw dropping plays to make up for the occasional gaffe
Well on the Oilers he might be a second pairing guy, but not on most teams.

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01-03-2013, 12:09 AM
  #722
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I disagree. He'd obviously make mistakes since he's young, but I wouldn't hesitate to put him on a 2nd pairing if there's a reliable enough guy with him. He'd make enough jaw dropping plays to make up for the occasional gaffe
Jones has the skills and athleticism/frame to be an elite D man in the league, but the old axiom that D men take longer to develop still holds true because for the most part its correct. Not only do D men have to develop mentally they have to fill out physically as well something forwards who are young could get away with. Imagine Lucic or another physical player like Perry going against Jones now. He just hasn't filled out and he has shown mental lapse and if he was in the league those short comings would be exploited, but this isn't a problem because he is still young. I just don't think he would be effective d man in the league today

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01-03-2013, 01:11 AM
  #723
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
Well on the Oilers he might be a second pairing guy, but not on most teams.
No need to be a jackass. It's not a debate of what teams he could make right now (and no, he wouldn't make the Oilers top 4)

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Jones has the skills and athleticism/frame to be an elite D man in the league, but the old axiom that D men take longer to develop still holds true because for the most part its correct. Not only do D men have to develop mentally they have to fill out physically as well something forwards who are young could get away with. Imagine Lucic or another physical player like Perry going against Jones now. He just hasn't filled out and he has shown mental lapse and if he was in the league those short comings would be exploited, but this isn't a problem because he is still young. I just don't think he would be effective d man in the league today
The thing is, while he still has room to fill out, he's already NHL size. I'm pretty sure at 6'4, 210 lbs, he's not going to have any more of an issue against those guys than most other dmen

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01-03-2013, 01:30 AM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Nathan MacKinnon is pretty much John Tavares with better skating (maybe even a more explosive first step) and more willingness to get his nose dirty. You've inadvertently came up with one of the better comparisons as far as past #1 picks go, lol.
MacKinnon doesn't have the skill or hockey sense Tavares does.

Tavares knack is also skating, which isn't MacKinnon's at all. Hall does sound like a good comparison, honestly.

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01-03-2013, 02:07 AM
  #725
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
At this point, for me, I'm having a hard time trying to find a reason to pick anyone besides Jones 1st overall. I think teams are built on the blueline, and Jones is exactly the kind of guy you would want to build your franchise around.

MacKinnon, Barkov and Drouin are all right there in the discussion but I think Jones has to be the guy for me at this point.
What if your Davidson/Howson and by chance, Columbus got the first pick. Already having Murray, do you still draft Jones and have a Jones/Murray pairing(not sure if they both play on the same side or not)? Can they be a Keith/Seabrook or a Weber/Suter type of tandem? Or do you pick Mackinnon and go with a 1-2 punch of Mackinnon and Johansen. Then hope Murray, Erixon,Moore, etc can be strong enough on the back end. Or maybe even trade the pick and drop down a couple of spots and then draft Drouin. Columbus adds some extra pieces and still get a solid player. Some say Drouin is more of a play maker but it looks like he can score. Johansen was projected to be a Thornton/Sedin like passer so if Johansen lives up to expectation, him feeding Drouin would be nice.

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