HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sid and Geno on the PK

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-02-2013, 10:25 AM
  #26
Skk82
Registered User
 
Skk82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,129
vCash: 500
It'll be interesting to see with no Jordan Staal if they change usage of Crosby and Malkin.

Was easy to just use Staal for defensive zone draws and keep 87/71 on the bench until o-zone draws. And that's smarter too. Even though Crosby and Malkin are good players and would do OK with more d-zone starts, it's still preferable to give them (or anyone) more o-zone starts and expect more production.

I'm of the opinion to keep Crosby/Malkin on the bench on the PK- the Pens have had one of the top PK units without them, and I think it's smarter to use the best offensive players in the best offensive situations, of which killing penalties most certainly is not.

Malkin and Crosby play top-10 league wide forward ES minutes per game. I wouldn't reduce that to give them more PK time to tire them out in situations where they probably won't have the puck too much.

Sure, situationally (you need a goal, Sutter is in the box, want Sid to win a big faceoff) I wouldn't staple them to the bench on PK's, but I wouldn't want them in the regular rotation either.

I'm not too worried about the injuries (even though Datsyuk missing most the SCF in 2009 by blocking a shot on the PK is the haunting idea)....I'm more concerned about burning them out by doing a job that guys like Dupuis, Cooke, Sutter and Adams can do and have had a top PK unit in the league.

PK'ing forwards can be pretty replacable and they're probably the least important position on the PK. To that end, I'd rather get Crosby/Malkin a breath to use them at their biggest impact the 5v5 shift that follows a PP where the other team might throw out their 4th line.


Last edited by Skk82: 01-02-2013 at 10:36 AM.
Skk82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 10:46 AM
  #27
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Agreed.

Much like what the Philadelphia Flyers did to the Penguins much-vaunted PK in the post season, last year.
And also keep in mind what the Flyers PK did to the Penguins PP. They put Giroux out there to kill penalties and it resulted in shorthanded goals for them.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 10:53 AM
  #28
BlindWillyMcHurt
Registered User
 
BlindWillyMcHurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,308
vCash: 500
Very, very true.

That illustrates the point much better, actually.

BlindWillyMcHurt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 10:59 AM
  #29
BlindWillyMcHurt
Registered User
 
BlindWillyMcHurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,308
vCash: 500
SKK raises extremely good points about offensive vs. defensive zone starts along with the potentiality of wearing the guys down when they'd probably be best served being fresh on the bench ready to hop over the boards when the penalty expires.

But, again... in situations where it makes sense (like the other team playing too many guys on the first unit for all 2 minutes and trying to catch them when they are tired)... I see no reason to keep them on the bench. I certainly see no reason not to play them in "do or die" situations like the playoffs.

I'm also not too worried about the extra couple of minutes they might rack up. With some players I would... but these guys are both horses.

BlindWillyMcHurt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 11:04 AM
  #30
TheRollingPuck
HFBoards Sponsor
 
TheRollingPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,197
vCash: 500
Like... you could have a unit (Sutter/Cooke) that is defense-first, and then a second that goes for chances (Crosby/Dupuis). However, I think the coaching staff will stick with one approach or the other.

TheRollingPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 11:38 AM
  #31
Skk82
Registered User
 
Skk82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
But, again... in situations where it makes sense (like the other team playing too many guys on the first unit for all 2 minutes and trying to catch them when they are tired)... I see no reason to keep them on the bench. I certainly see no reason not to play them in "do or die" situations like the playoffs.

I'm also not too worried about the extra couple of minutes they might rack up. With some players I would... but these guys are both horses.
Agree with you situationally. Crosby is the best faceoff guy on the team, it makes a lot of sense to get him out there for key draws. When teams/coaches ride Kovalchuk and Semin and give them a lot of PK time, it sometimes brings the attention to detail and focus to their games back, I could see that being benefical for Malkin to get some PK shifts too, especially late in the PP if the other team is using defensemen for the full 2 minutes.

As far as riding them, I don't think it made sense last year. Crosby wasn't in Crosby shape or form, and it showed. I think the Pens asked a lot of Malkin, in year 1 of ACL, and he cleared every hurdle, but it probably wasn't the wisest to totally run him aground. This year, however, can and should be different since both are presumably, hopefully, in better places.

Skk82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 11:58 AM
  #32
UnrealMachine
Registered User
 
UnrealMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,404
vCash: 500
List of potential negatives of having Crosby/Malkin kill penalties:

1. Reduced ES/PP time.
2. Less energy on ES/PP time (PK is draining on a players energy system).
3. Increased risk of injury.
4. Worse PK. There is nothing to suggest that the Pens would kill penalties at a higher rate with Crosby/Malkin. Intuition and general defensive statistics (individual 5 on 5 GAA) says that the PK would be worse.
5. Marginal increase in SH goals. People salivate over the idea of Crosby/Malkin scoring SH goals at will, but it is unlikely to have a significant impact. It is much more likely that that the increased number of goals given up with Crosby/Malkin on the ice dwarfs the number of additional SH goals by a country mile.

Instead of looking a small sample size (Flyers series), look at the entire regular season of the Flyers PK last season. Their PK rate and SH rate in the regular season were not enviable at all. The Flyers had 6 SH goals all season.

UnrealMachine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 12:41 PM
  #33
Sidney the Kidney
Beastmode Penguins
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
List of potential negatives of having Crosby/Malkin kill penalties:

1. Reduced ES/PP time.
2. Less energy on ES/PP time (PK is draining on a players energy system).
3. Increased risk of injury.
4. Worse PK. There is nothing to suggest that the Pens would kill penalties at a higher rate with Crosby/Malkin. Intuition and general defensive statistics (individual 5 on 5 GAA) says that the PK would be worse.
5. Marginal increase in SH goals. People salivate over the idea of Crosby/Malkin scoring SH goals at will, but it is unlikely to have a significant impact. It is much more likely that that the increased number of goals given up with Crosby/Malkin on the ice dwarfs the number of additional SH goals by a country mile.

Instead of looking a small sample size (Flyers series), look at the entire regular season of the Flyers PK last season. Their PK rate and SH rate in the regular season were not enviable at all. The Flyers had 6 SH goals all season.
But it's not just the Flyers that put their stars out on the PK. A lot of teams do it. The Kings just won the Cup with their stars taking regular duty on the PK.

Sidney the Kidney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 12:56 PM
  #34
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,972
vCash: 500
Even if Crosby and Malkin were to spend limited time on the PK during the regular season, maybe they ought to spend more time on the PK during the playoffs.

In each of the last two of the Penguins playoff exits (Tampa Bay and Philly), the PK unit, which was ranked highly during the regular season, failed miserably. Perhaps during the playoffs, when you're only focused on one team, both the Lightning and the Flyers extensively studied the habits of the Penguins PK. Obviously, Sid and Geno were unavailable in the Tampa Bay series, but against Philly throwing them on the PK units could've really thrown the Flyers PP off base, or at least make them think twice.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 01:18 PM
  #35
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Even if Crosby and Malkin were to spend limited time on the PK during the regular season, maybe they ought to spend more time on the PK during the playoffs.

In each of the last two of the Penguins playoff exits (Tampa Bay and Philly), the PK unit, which was ranked highly during the regular season, failed miserably. Perhaps during the playoffs, when you're only focused on one team, both the Lightning and the Flyers extensively studied the habits of the Penguins PK. Obviously, Sid and Geno were unavailable in the Tampa Bay series, but against Philly throwing them on the PK units could've really thrown the Flyers PP off base, or at least make them think twice.
This is a solid point. Our PK was exposed in both series and screamed for adjustments to be made. Whether those changes should be personnel or system is the question. To me, at least in the Philly series, it was obvious we needed to change it up.

Shady Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 01:22 PM
  #36
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
List of potential negatives of having Crosby/Malkin kill penalties:

1. Reduced ES/PP time.
2. Less energy on ES/PP time (PK is draining on a players energy system).
3. Increased risk of injury.
4. Worse PK. There is nothing to suggest that the Pens would kill penalties at a higher rate with Crosby/Malkin. Intuition and general defensive statistics (individual 5 on 5 GAA) says that the PK would be worse.
5. Marginal increase in SH goals. People salivate over the idea of Crosby/Malkin scoring SH goals at will, but it is unlikely to have a significant impact. It is much more likely that that the increased number of goals given up with Crosby/Malkin on the ice dwarfs the number of additional SH goals by a country mile.

Instead of looking a small sample size (Flyers series), look at the entire regular season of the Flyers PK last season. Their PK rate and SH rate in the regular season were not enviable at all. The Flyers had 6 SH goals all season.
This is all speculation. Plus, as mentioned before, how do other offensive stars do it and still produce extremely well offensively? Surely, the best 2 players in the world can do it too.

Shady Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 01:49 PM
  #37
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
This is all speculation. Plus, as mentioned before, how do other offensive stars do it and still produce extremely well offensively? Surely, the best 2 players in the world can do it too.
And with Malkin, he kills penalties when he plays for Russia and is considered to be very good at it. It's not like it would be unfamiliar territory for him.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 02:01 PM
  #38
TheRollingPuck
HFBoards Sponsor
 
TheRollingPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,197
vCash: 500
For quick reference, here is a list of each team's top-four forwards in terms SH TOI. *ES TOI in brackets*

ANA: Macenauer - 2:55 (7:49) , McMillan 2:29 (8:40), Gordon - 2:04 (8:41), Koivu - 1:40 (14:20)
BOS: Bergeron - 1:48 (14:15), Kelly - 1:47 (12:45), Campbell - 1:40 (10:57), Peverley - 1:40 (12:29)
BUF: Pominville - 2:13 (14:19), Kaleta - 1:55 (11:11), Hecht - 1:49 (14:25), Roy - 1:42 (14:59)
CAL: Glencross - 2:12 (13:45), Moss - 1:28 (11:37), Kostopoulos - 1:27 (10:45), Stempniak - 1:24 (12:57)
CAR: Sutter - 2:20 (14:36), Dwyer - 1:49 (13:06), Staal - 1:26 (16:07), Jokinen - 1:17 (13:33)
CHI: Toews - 1:52 (15:41), Hossa - 1:47 (15:00), Bolland - 1:46 (12:44), Kruger - 1:20 (12:36)
COL: McClement - 3:06 (10:35), Landeskog - 1:20 (15:07), Kobasew - 1:15 (10:04), O'Reilly - 1:10 (15:59)
CBJ: Dorsett - 1:48 (12:05), Russell - 1:47 (9:46), MacKenzie - 1:47 (8:39), Umberger - 1:01 (14:00)
DAL: Fiddler - 1:59 (11:51), Dvorak - 1:49 (12:21), Eriksson - 1:46 (15:19), Ott - 1:45 (14:34)
DET: Eaves - 2:25 (8:27), Helm - 2:17 (12:02), Miller - 2:01 (10:45), Cleary - 1:43 (12:56)
EDM: Horcoff - 2:39 (14:03), Jones - 2:28 (12:06), Belanger - 2:28 (11:11), Smyth - 2:09 (14:26)
FLO: Goc - 2:00 (14:22), Kopecky - 2:00 (13:07), Smithson - 1:53 (9:43), Weiss - 1:15 (15:57)
LAK: Kopitar - 2:14 (15:41), Stoll - 2:02 (12:34), Richards - 2:02 (13:43), Lewis - 1:43 (11:15)
MIN: Powe - 2:27 (11:28), Brodziak - 2:25 (14:57), Cullen - 1:47 (14:27), Koivu - 1:43 (16:05)
MON: Plekanec - 3:13 (14:26), Moen - 2:22 (13:12), White - 2:07 (12:26), Gionta - 2:05 (14:26)
NSH: Spaling - 1:57 (13:34), Halischuk - 1:16 (9:53), Legwand - 1:16 (14:59), Fisher - 1:15 (15:46)
NJD: Zubrus - 2:00 (14:52), Parise - 1:57 (16:05), Henrique - 1:47 (14:43), Elias - 1:46 (14:36)
NYI: Nielsen - 2:01 (12:56), Pandolfo - 1:46 (9:06), Grabner - 1:41 (13:04), Bailey - 1:34 (12:26)
NYR: Boyle - 1:59 (12:24), Callahan - 1:48 (15:31), Prust - 1:40 (10:12), Stepan - 1:17 (14:33)
OTT: Condra - 2:46 (11:18), Winchester - 2:14 (8:22), Smith - 2:12 (11:37), Daugavins - 1:58 (9:13)
PHI: Talbot - 3:29 (12:16), Couturier - 2:41 (10:59), Read - 2:35 (12:03), Giroux - 2:14 (15:23)
PHO: Gordon - 2:53 (12:54), Korpikoski - 2:36 (13:48), Hanzal - 1:32 (13:58), Vrbata - 1:16 (14:09)
PIT: Adams - 2:51 (8:24), Staal - 2:38 (15:25), Cooke - 2:32 (11:57), Dupuis - 2:16 (14:15)
SJS: Pavelski - 1:34 (15:49), Marleau - 1:28 (15:48), Handzus - 1:21 (11:59), Couture - 1:05 (14:45)
STL: Sobotka - 1:55 (13:16), Oshie - 1:48 (15:14), Backes - 1:47 (15:47), Steen - 1:42 (14:55)
TBL: Hall - 2:52 (8:56), Thompson - 2:41 (11:58), Pyatt - 2:11 (12:13), Tyrell - 1:33 (8:55)
TOR: Steckel - 2:17 (10:21), Connelly - 1:41 (13:25), Crabb - 1:34 (11:46), Lombardi - 1:15 (11:52)
VAN: Malhotra - 2:24 (9:51), Hansen - 2:08 (12:36), Kesler - 2:00 (14:35), Burrows - 1:52 (14:26)
WAS: Laich - 2:28 (13:49), Halpern - 1:44 (10:45), Brouwer - 1:30 (13:31), Hendricks - 1:13 (10:48)
WPG: Slater - 2:12 (12:25), Antropov - 1:47 (12:40), Burmistrov - 1:47 (13:38), Glass - 1:47 (11:31)

Note: There were players such as Gaustad (NSH) and Vermette (PHO) that logged heavy minutes on the PK, but did so on two teams. I chose to exclude them. Mainly because I was too lazy to calculate. haha

TheRollingPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 03:49 PM
  #39
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
The whole reason we don't use them is injury potential. PK puts players in a vulnerable position. Given our injury luck the last few years it's not surprising. I would say they should be used in key PK situations in the playoffs, not as regulars. Get them familiar with the system and their role and when we need to keep the other team honest / score SH to get back in a game that means a lot, use them. Otherwise not. The fact is they're not going to be adept at blocking shots and all they have to do is take one in the hand and they're out for 6 weeks. Doesn't need to be a concussion thing or a knee thing. Lots of ways to get hurt playing the PK.

Not worth it with those two.

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 04:13 PM
  #40
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
The whole reason we don't use them is injury potential. PK puts players in a vulnerable position. Given our injury luck the last few years it's not surprising. I would say they should be used in key PK situations in the playoffs, not as regulars. Get them familiar with the system and their role and when we need to keep the other team honest / score SH to get back in a game that means a lot, use them. Otherwise not. The fact is they're not going to be adept at blocking shots and all they have to do is take one in the hand and they're out for 6 weeks. Doesn't need to be a concussion thing or a knee thing. Lots of ways to get hurt playing the PK.

Not worth it with those two.
I disagree. It seems like many posters think every player we put out on the PK is at a huge risk of injury. How many times has Staal, Cooke, Adams, Duper, Vitale been badly injured from playing the PK? The reality is that it doesn't happen THAT often. Plus, we don't have to be the NYR that sit back and stack the house with shot blockers. With Sid and Geno on the PK, we are pressing and forcing them. Will they have to block shots? Absolutely, but not nearly as often as you make it seem.

They should get time on the PK, but not a prominent role IMO.

Shady Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 04:24 PM
  #41
Jacob
Registered User
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 25,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
List of potential negatives of having Crosby/Malkin kill penalties:

1. Reduced ES/PP time.
2. Less energy on ES/PP time (PK is draining on a players energy system).
3. Increased risk of injury.
4. Worse PK. There is nothing to suggest that the Pens would kill penalties at a higher rate with Crosby/Malkin. Intuition and general defensive statistics (individual 5 on 5 GAA) says that the PK would be worse.
5. Marginal increase in SH goals. People salivate over the idea of Crosby/Malkin scoring SH goals at will, but it is unlikely to have a significant impact. It is much more likely that that the increased number of goals given up with Crosby/Malkin on the ice dwarfs the number of additional SH goals by a country mile.

Instead of looking a small sample size (Flyers series), look at the entire regular season of the Flyers PK last season. Their PK rate and SH rate in the regular season were not enviable at all. The Flyers had 6 SH goals all season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
The whole reason we don't use them is injury potential. PK puts players in a vulnerable position. Given our injury luck the last few years it's not surprising. I would say they should be used in key PK situations in the playoffs, not as regulars. Get them familiar with the system and their role and when we need to keep the other team honest / score SH to get back in a game that means a lot, use them. Otherwise not. The fact is they're not going to be adept at blocking shots and all they have to do is take one in the hand and they're out for 6 weeks. Doesn't need to be a concussion thing or a knee thing. Lots of ways to get hurt playing the PK.

Not worth it with those two.
Completely agree with these two points. It's not worth the injury risk. If other teams put their top guys on the PK regularly and have success, that's fine, let them. When Claude Giroux breaks his ankle off a Chara point shot you'll see a change in strategy pretty quick.

The Penguins pay guys to kill penalties just so the stars don't have to.

Jacob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 05:32 PM
  #42
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Very, very true.

That illustrates the point much better, actually.
Well, that's really what stars on the PK do. They keep the PP honest. You can't pass through the box at will. You can't make high risk passes, especially around the point. And, that just goes to another level in the playoffs.

When Staal was more committed as a defensive player, he was a beast on the PK. He wasn't last year. The fear factor that came with high risk passing in the offensive zone wasn't there. With Sid and Geno, it would be there.

Yeah, there's a risk of injury. But, there's a risk of injury anytime.

One more thing: I think-- I've always thought-- that playing on the PK is good for Geno. He's a 'flow of the game' player. You want him engaged. Getting PK minutes tends to keep him more engaged. Not a guarantee, but it has the potential to improve what he can give you in the same way that giving him (or Sid) linemates enhances the likelihood that you'll get more for the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I disagree. It seems like many posters think every player we put out on the PK is at a huge risk of injury. How many times has Staal, Cooke, Adams, Duper, Vitale been badly injured from playing the PK? The reality is that it doesn't happen THAT often. Plus, we don't have to be the NYR that sit back and stack the house with shot blockers. With Sid and Geno on the PK, we are pressing and forcing them. Will they have to block shots? Absolutely, but not nearly as often as you make it seem.

They should get time on the PK, but not a prominent role IMO.
THIS

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 08:42 PM
  #43
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 33,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
How does that differ from a player like Toews, Giroux or Parise? Those guys are playing every PK, first unit PP, and even strength. I don't feel like looking up TOI comparisons between them but it doesn't make sense that other team's best players can do all 3 and be fine.
Toews played about a minute less of ES and a minute less PP time than Malkin did per game last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I don't want them getting top PK minutes, but they should be out there. The Philly series showed our PK needed a change. Those "awesome" PK'ers were getting torched and it was nearly an automatic goal. Meanwhile, Sid and Geno sat on the bench. I guess my thought is you put one of them out there the last 20 seconds of a PK and in consecutive situations to force the opposition back on their heels a bit.

Each game and opponent dictates whether Sid or Geno play the PP. Teams with the big boom slapshot PP like Boston you leave Sid and Geno on the bench. Teams that are more finesse and less about the big shot, you put your best skating guys out there.
This I agree with. Put them out there against teams we need to put pressure on. Don't make them regulars on the PK, but give them a a minute or so a game to change things up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
You can go down every team and list off top guys playing PK. It isn't outrageous to have Crosby and Malkin play the PK.
Its definitely not outrageous. And I wouldn't be upset to see it on occasion. Honestly, this past offseason I would have liked to have seen it against Philly. It was painfully obvious that their PP simply outskilled our PK. But I don't want to see Sid and Geno playing 2 or 3 minutes of PK a night.

I really think there are some matchups where it would be good. But at the same time, are we even positive that Sid or Geno are actually better at killing penalties than Dupuis or Cooke? I have my doubts. They would create more pressure and probably get a few more short handed goals. But defensively, I think Dupuis and Cooke are probably better choices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
This is all speculation. Plus, as mentioned before, how do other offensive stars do it and still produce extremely well offensively? Surely, the best 2 players in the world can do it too.
Which other team has its stars killing penalties while producing like Geno or Sid at even strength?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
But it's not just the Flyers that put their stars out on the PK. A lot of teams do it. The Kings just won the Cup with their stars taking regular duty on the PK.
The Kings stars do not score like our stars do. And I don't think its an outrageous claim to say that their stars are better defensively than our stars.


Again, I am all for them playing the occasional shift on the PK. But there is no reason for them to be getting 2-3 minutes a game like Toews or Kopitar.

Ogrezilla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 09:17 PM
  #44
TheRollingPuck
HFBoards Sponsor
 
TheRollingPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,197
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Its definitely not outrageous. And I wouldn't be upset to see it on occasion. Honestly, this past offseason I would have liked to have seen it against Philly. It was painfully obvious that their PP simply outskilled our PK. But I don't want to see Sid and Geno playing 2 or 3 minutes of PK a night.
Nor do I. I wouldn't want them out there for half the kill, but if there's 10-15 seconds left after a whistle, then I'd throw them out.

Quote:
I really think there are some matchups where it would be good.
Definitely.

Quote:
But at the same time, are we even positive that Sid or Geno are actually better at killing penalties than Dupuis or Cooke? I have my doubts. They would create more pressure and probably get a few more short handed goals. But defensively, I think Dupuis and Cooke are probably better choices.
For me, it depends on what type of PK is being used. If it is to box players out and prevent shots, then yeah I'd prefer more defensive minded guys (Cooke, Dupuis). If the goal is to pressure the puck carrier and go for chances, then I'd want the most talented guys (Crosby, Malkin, maybe even Kunitz).


Last edited by TheRollingPuck: 01-02-2013 at 09:23 PM.
TheRollingPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2013, 09:31 PM
  #45
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 33,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post


For me, it depends on what type of PK is being used. If it is to box players out and prevent shots, then yeah I'd prefer more defensive minded guys (Cooke, Dupuis). If the goal is to pressure the puck carrier and go for chances, then I'd want the most talented guys (Crosby, Malkin, maybe even Kunitz).
Ideally, it wouldn't be the same every time we kill a penalty all year. That was a huge problem in the playoffs. Philly knew we really only had one powerplay strategy. In the regular season teams don't really have time to do much gameplanning. In the playoffs, they do.

I can just imagine throwing out Sid and Geno to kill a penalty against a team with some young kid on the point and really getting in his head. Even discouraging teams from putting a forward on the point. They wouldn't need to be out there much to get in the other team's head.

Ogrezilla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 12:48 PM
  #46
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,292
vCash: 500
All I know is one area where we need significant improvement is in improvisation. We have become a very predictable outfit, in all facets.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 01:07 PM
  #47
DoctrSteveBrule
BrooksOrpeck
 
DoctrSteveBrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,018
vCash: 500
if it sacrifices any 5 on 5 or powerplay minutes for them, then no. If its just additional minutes, they're going to be up in the 24 minutes range every night. Thats a lot to ask

DoctrSteveBrule is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 01:16 PM
  #48
Shockmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
if it sacrifices any 5 on 5 or powerplay minutes for them, then no. If its just additional minutes, they're going to be up in the 24 minutes range every night. Thats a lot to ask
While I think they should get some PK minutes in the regular season, the emphasis for more of Sid and Geno on the PK will be in the playoffs.

Shockmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2013, 08:43 PM
  #49
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 33,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
All I know is one area where we need significant improvement is in improvisation. We have become a very predictable outfit, in all facets.
this I 100% agree with.

Ogrezilla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 01:14 AM
  #50
Sidney the Kidney
Beastmode Penguins
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
The Kings stars do not score like our stars do. And I don't think its an outrageous claim to say that their stars are better defensively than our stars.

Again, I am all for them playing the occasional shift on the PK. But there is no reason for them to be getting 2-3 minutes a game like Toews or Kopitar.
Which is what I'd stated earlier in the thread. If you read my previous post in the thread (not the one you quoted), I never suggested 2-3 minutes a game. Just more than the currently do.

The post of mine you quoted was directly in response to the post I quoted that seemed to suggest those arguing for more PK time for Sid and Geno is due to the Flyers doing so with their stars, as if mimicking the Flyers' strategy. I was just pointing out that it's more than just the Flyers who use their stars to PK.

Sidney the Kidney is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.