HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

The last sticky point - pensions?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-02-2013, 08:25 PM
  #26
Hockey Team
Hunger Force
 
Hockey Team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,485
vCash: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Start? I think they always were, I think they want to put the risk back on the players.
I'm pretty sure that it's the NHLPA that runs the pension plan. And it's paid out of union dues.

Hockey Team is offline  
Old
01-02-2013, 08:53 PM
  #27
kdb209
Global Moderator
 
kdb209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Team View Post
I'm pretty sure that it's the NHLPA that runs the pension plan. And it's paid out of union dues.
Lots of gory details of the current Pension Plans in the Decertification + NHL Pension Plan and Players on Canadian teams dinged on pension threads from November.

As to who "runs" the pension plans:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
good stuff! thanks so much for that. i should have paid more attention. i really appreciated what you posted..it was clarifying

do you have any idea how they've balanced the plan...investment/annuity-wise?

also...i asked above...does anyone know who rep's the plan legally, re "administrator" and who the accountant is? are the ont. holdings through rbc or someone else? i'm just wondering out of curiosity.
I don't know who administers the plans - but half the trustees that oversee it are appointed by the NHL and the other half by the NHLPA. The NHLPA is responsible for selecting the plan administrators and legal counsel. The plan trustees decide on the set of available investment finds and then the players make their own investment decisions from those fund options.

There are actually two separate pension plans - the "National Hockey League Players' Pension Plan", for players on Canadian teams with contributions made in $CDN , and the "National Hockey League Pension Plan for Players of United States Member Clubs", for players on US teams with contributions made in $US.

For players with less than 160 games, the defined contribution is specified in $CDN, for players with 160+ games, the defined contribution is specified in $US - with appropriate currency conversions done "based on a conversion rate equal to the average currency exchange rate during the season.".

kdb209 is offline  
Old
01-02-2013, 08:59 PM
  #28
Hockey Team
Hunger Force
 
Hockey Team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,485
vCash: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Lots of gory details of the current Pension Plans in the Decertification + NHL Pension Plan and Players on Canadian teams dinged on pension threads from November.

As to who "runs" the pension plans:
Wow, that sounds like a cluster****.

Hockey Team is offline  
Old
01-02-2013, 09:40 PM
  #29
knorthern knight
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,802
vCash: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Defined benefit plans are why companies like GM are in so much trouble. They had employees work for them for 30 years and then end up living into their 80s and collecting pensions for 30 years. Very expensive and unknown liabilities.
I heard from a former co-work that an an acquaintance of his AND THE ACQUAINTANCE'S SON were both drawing pensions from Ford simultaneously. This gets even worse in the NHL's case, because I don't think players play for 30 years (yes, I know about Gordie Howe). So the qualification period is obviously a lot shorter.

The Fiscal Cliff, and QE (Quantitative Easing) combine to make safe investment returns ridiculously low. Defined benefits will one day be remembered as part of "the good ole days".

knorthern knight is offline  
Old
01-02-2013, 10:37 PM
  #30
Seedling
Fan level 7?
 
Seedling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,497
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
I heard from a former co-work that an an acquaintance of his AND THE ACQUAINTANCE'S SON were both drawing pensions from Ford simultaneously. This gets even worse in the NHL's case, because I don't think players play for 30 years (yes, I know about Gordie Howe). So the qualification period is obviously a lot shorter.

The Fiscal Cliff, and QE (Quantitative Easing) combine to make safe investment returns ridiculously low. Defined benefits will one day be remembered as part of "the good ole days".
There is no doubt that the historic low rates for interest are really messing up a lot of pensions. Most have a governance formula that only allows for certain components in the portfolio to make sure the risk exposure stays at a pre-determined level. What this does is effectively mandates the choice a pension manager has in terms of options, and since most pensions are run very conservatively, the defined benefits are under pressure because there are usually more members drawing than contributing at this time. So you have a few choices. One is to raise the rates of all contributing parties to make up for lost performance. One is to assume more risk of the pooled capital in the fund, however this is not usually advised of even allowed depending on the pension laws that govern the fund as well as it's board of trustees input on the matter. The other is to transition to a defined contribution and perhaps look at the first option of members paying more to the old plan at the same time. None of the options are without their own risks.

Now, I think the fund management, as far a s I can tell from public documents, is run fairly well and with good oversight. I don't think either side would really want to fundamentally change that. The issue ,as I see it, is who is going to pay how much and since the PA has lost salary, they will definitely be asking for major increase from the owners side of HRR. That is potentially very costly for the owners as they already contribute 75% of the funds dollars. I cannot see them being eager to increase that especially when it has been rumoured that the PA wants that amount to not count towards HRR as a source of funding. The owners definitely would like it related to HRR as it reduces other HRR costs for them.

Essentially, I see this being down to the players asking the owners for say 90% ( speculation on my part) so the players can reduce their share to 10% and keep the other 15% as salary from HRR.

It SHOULD be a matter of back and forth number splitting. This should not be "the hill to die on" for either side, but still a worthwhile negotiation point.

Seedling is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 01:35 PM
  #31
Seedling
Fan level 7?
 
Seedling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,497
vCash: 50
The latest on this is that the NHL wants 50 million of the make whole to be their contribution, held until the expiry of the CBA. Also that they want out of any formula that stipulates that they are mandated to give a matching percentage. As per MSNBC.
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/n...-donald-fehr-1


Last edited by Seedling: 01-03-2013 at 01:42 PM.
Seedling is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 01:57 PM
  #32
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,312
vCash: 500
Pensions are important, but I can't believe this is a major issue to millionaire hockey players...this is a Fehr issue, something else to slow the process down...

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 10:58 PM
  #33
Seedling
Fan level 7?
 
Seedling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,497
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Pensions are important, but I can't believe this is a major issue to millionaire hockey players...this is a Fehr issue, something else to slow the process down...
Yes, and he even said so early on: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-...170014947.html

..in the subsection titled Pension.

Seedling is offline  
Old
01-11-2013, 10:30 AM
  #34
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 55,474
vCash: 500
Continue discussions here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1320717

LadyStanley is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.