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CBA Negotiations III: Why Can't We All Just...Get Along?

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01-02-2013, 09:36 PM
  #951
PHILOUDELPHIA
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Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper

Still hearing major stumbling blocks on pension. Some #NHL owners still feel pension offer from #NHLPA leaves them with too much liability


Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika

Wonder if Fehr has a disclaimer letter in his jacket pocket, ready to hand to Bettman on his way out the door

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01-02-2013, 09:42 PM
  #952
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sounds like there is no deal tonight and the PA is leaning towards the disclaimer.

Also it seems the biggest thing I read is the owners don't want to be taking the liability in the pension issue. The owners feel they are taking too much of a risk.

that is the biggest issue.

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01-02-2013, 09:45 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
sounds like there is no deal tonight and the PA is leaning towards the disclaimer.

Also it seems the biggest thing I read is the owners don't want to be taking the liability in the pension issue. The owners feel they are taking too much of a risk.

that is the biggest issue.
And if what I read on twitter is true, they are taking the risk

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01-02-2013, 09:48 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
And if what I read on twitter is true, they are taking the risk
so the big key moving forward, even if the PA files the disclaimer, at some point, they will have to come back to this issue to finish off the CBA.

how do you divi up the liability %

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01-02-2013, 09:49 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
so the big key moving forward, even if the PA files the disclaimer, at some point, they will have to come back to this issue to finish off the CBA.

how do you divi up the liability %
Just leave the damn pension the way it has been for the last 7 years.

It's basically just a stalling tactic by Fehr

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01-02-2013, 09:49 PM
  #956
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Can somebody give a quick summary of what the current NHL pension structure encompasses?

Why can't these millionaires be put on a 401K plan like most people are subjected to or is that what they have or some variation? I mean Gov't workers have the TSP 401K plan with matching. Reagan pulled a fast one back in the 80's with that. The people on the old federal pension plan have a freakin sweet deal....too sweet.

Edit: What is the liability issue with the pensions...

Edit 2; Found this???

Quote:
NHL
Year pension plan began: 1947

While the NHL's pension plan was created in 1948 by former NHL President Clarence S. Campbell, significant benefits weren't given to players until the 1990s. For decades, even the greatest players retired on pensions that put them at the poverty level. Take Gordie Howe for instance, who has a pension of $14,000 per year.

Change didn't occur until former player Carl Brewer began investigating the pension plan and Alan Eagleson, former head of the NHL Players Association. Brewer headed a lawsuit in 1994 after he found that Eagleson scandalously withheld millions from players. NHL players were ultimately awarded more than $40 million for their pension fund in 1997.

NHL pensions, which are also determined by the length of a player's career, require at least 160 games played for eligibility. Those with less than 400 games played can collect $8,000 CDN per year beginning at age 45. Those who've played more than 400 games receive a payment of $250,000 CDN at the age of 55, in addition to $12,500 CDN per year at 45.

Read more: http://www.askmen.com/sports/busines...#ixzz2Gsh5JpJs
and this

Quote:
NHL

NHL players can start withdrawing their pension benefits at the age of 45. Players are not fully vested, however, until the age of 45. NHL pensions require that a player be active for at least 160 games to qualify for the maximum pension benefit. Players with less than 160 games of service receive the maximum benefit under Canadian law, and players with 160 games or more of service receive the maximum pension under U.S. law, which is $45,000 annually. (The maximum amount you may borrow from your qualified plan is either 50% of your vested balance or $50,000, whichever is less. Find out more, in Borrowing From Your Plan.)

Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/financia...#ixzz2Gshys1pM


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 01-02-2013 at 09:57 PM.
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01-02-2013, 09:51 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Just leave the damn pension the way it has been for the last 7 years.

It's basically just a stalling tactic by Fehr
I hope they do that, If they are this close I hope they resume CBA talks tomorrow. somehow I got this feeling this deal is going to be completed next week, probably on judgement day it self jan 11.

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01-02-2013, 09:53 PM
  #958
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Kevin Paul Dupont ‏@GlobeKPD

Including Bettman, Fehr. RT @cotsonika: I don't know how anyone knows what would happen if PA disclaims. We're all guessing

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01-02-2013, 09:55 PM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Can somebody give a quick summary of what the current NHL pension structure encompasses?

Why can't these millionaires be put on a 401K plan like most people are subjected to or is that what they have or some variation? I mean Gov't workers have the TSP 401K plan with matching. Reagan pulled a fast one back in the 80's with that. The people on the old federal pension plan have a freakin sweet deal....too sweet.

Edit: What is the liability issue with the pensions...

Edit 2; Found this???
Yep, that's pretty close but the players on canadian teams have to pay more on taxes or they are only allowed a pension that is so large. I forget which it is, but the PA wants to change that

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01-02-2013, 09:57 PM
  #960
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Hearing both sides disappointed with lack of true movement in each other's new positions today... Key is to keep talking though

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01-02-2013, 10:01 PM
  #961
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Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN

Just hit 11 p.m. NHLPA has an hour left to decide on filing "disclaimer of interest"

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01-02-2013, 10:04 PM
  #962
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so far I been watching TSN Twitter, etc. I'm not seeing any press conference so far.

I wonder If both sides are still meeting, which would be good. I would assume Fehr has the paper work ready to file if he is going to and just has to submit it.

But if they are still inside and talking that is good. I wonder if the talks will go late into the night.

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01-02-2013, 10:05 PM
  #963
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Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib

One hour til NHLPA disclaimer of interest deadline. Technically, all Fehr has to do is hand Bettman a letter since they're at same site



so bettman the ball is now truly in your court, agree or fehr is handing you a letter

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01-02-2013, 10:06 PM
  #964
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holy crap there's an edit button

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01-02-2013, 10:07 PM
  #965
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This article was gut wrenching....some good perspective on pensions


Quote:
René Robert was a member of the Buffalo Sabres' famed French Connection line and the second executive director of the NHL Alumni Association, which was formed more than a decade ago. He said he helped "50 to 75" former players, some from his era, who needed money. He also recalled the time he asked the modern-day NHL players to do more for their predecessors.

"Years ago I once sent a memo to all the player reps asking them to help," Robert said. "I even had Don Cherry go on national TV and say the players should cough up $1,000 each to help the older guys. Not one [player rep.]replied. What's $1,000 to these guys? They lose that much in card games."

Currently, the NHL and the National Hockey League Players' Association each contribute $2-million to the senior retired benefits program. (One insider said of the pool: "It's not enough. … It really only covers bare necessities for some guys.") There's also the emergency assistance fund for those who require immediate aid. That money comes from NHL player fines controlled by NHL executive Brian O'Neill. And there's the BreakAway program, which assists former and current players by allowing them to upgrade their education. It, too, is subsidized by player fines.

Mark Napier, current head of the Alumni Association, insisted it's "totally false" to think today's NHL players don't care about the former players, many of whom were their heroes growing up.

"The players did bump their contribution to $2-million," Napier said. "Do they have to do it? No. Is it the right thing to do? Yes. That's a start. Unfortunately, the rest has to be collectively bargained [between the NHL and the NHLPA with its soon to be appointed executive director, Donald Fehr]"


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4329671/

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01-02-2013, 10:07 PM
  #966
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Spector's Hockey ‏@SpectorsHockey
#NHLPA doesn't have to legally "file" disclaimer of interest by midnight, Can just present #NHL letter stating disclaimer as of 11.59 et.

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01-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
This article was gut wrenching....some good perspective on pensions
If they want to bump it up, why not make it to a certain point?

Players who are now senior citizens never made the money that players who are retiring now made.

Only do it to a certain point and teach players how to manage their money

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
People are gathering in Times Square to see the Disclaimer of Interest ball fall at midnight.

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01-02-2013, 10:13 PM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
If they want to bump it up, why not make it to a certain point?

Players who are now senior citizens never made the money that players who are retiring now made.

Only do it to a certain point and teach players how to manage their money

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
People are gathering in Times Square to see the Disclaimer of Interest ball fall at midnight.
so I guess this means PA is taking this to court now



Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull

If NHLPA files disclaimer of interest, it complicates things a bit, but is not that big a deal. Last yr, NBA settled 12 days after filing

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01-02-2013, 10:22 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
so I guess this means PA is taking this to court now



Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull

If NHLPA files disclaimer of interest, it complicates things a bit, but is not that big a deal. Last yr, NBA settled 12 days after filing
Let them.

It will get tossed out faster than I make 1000 posts.

Its an obvious negotiating tactic.

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01-02-2013, 10:24 PM
  #970
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Players haven't decided on filing disclaimer but how to proceed and course of action was set earlier tonight on conf call

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01-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #971
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#DregerFace is way more interesting and entertaining than any of this stuff! LeBrun and Onrait made my night!

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01-02-2013, 11:01 PM
  #972
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#DregerFace is way more interesting and entertaining than any of this stuff! LeBrun and Onrait made my night!
Completely agree. And #DregerFace in Gangnam style/jibjab had me in tears

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01-02-2013, 11:15 PM
  #973
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Has to be some late night horse-trading between league and union


Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN

NHLPA could have handed Bettman the "disclaimer" letter but both sides could agree to continue talking; if no letter, that's a good sign


Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice

We're past 4 hours now for tonight's meeting

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01-02-2013, 11:17 PM
  #974
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I think it gets done tonight or tomorrow.

I hope Fehr is taking Bettman's drop dead date seriously

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01-02-2013, 11:19 PM
  #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I think it gets done tonight or tomorrow.

I hope Fehr is taking Bettman's drop dead date seriously

I think you are right, I got a strange feeling this lockout ends very similar to the way the NBA's did. with a late / overnight agreement

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